Arab Summit extends land-for-peace offer to Israel

[BlackOp_Sniper]

Well, they are a people. That is not my issue. My issue is their agenda and means of gaining attention. Let Israel off its leash? No, I'm sorry, acts of violence do not justify further acts of violence. Israel, frankly, is not terribly much better in that department. It's treatment of the Palestinians has been too high handed. Mind you, one wonders what would be an alternative for them considering the random acts of violence the PLO participates in? I know myself that, in the scenario Bear presented, I would not feel too kindly towards our own natives if they employed the same tactics on our city streets. Imagine sitting in an outside cafe in downtown Windsor and a Metis strapped to a bomb came in to blow the hell out of the place.....!

Sanctus sometimes people don't get it until they've bin kick around a while. in the case of the palestinians they think they have the moral high ground. What a ****ing joke that is. If you want me to see you as people, you have to act like one. Killing your own kids to make political statements is just proof that they're animals. We eat animals or kill them for sport, we don't give them countries and kindness. CDNBear makes some good points, but if the indians down here tried that **** I'ld hunt them for sport to.
I see he calls you "padre" are you a priest?

 

[sanctus]

Sanctus sometimes people don't get it until they've bin kick around a while. in the case of the palestinians they think they have the moral high ground. What a ****ing joke that is. If you want me to see you as people, you have to act like one. Killing your own kids to make political statements is just proof that they're animals. We eat animals or kill them for sport, we don't give them countries and kindness. CDNBear makes some good points, but if the indians down here tried that **** I'ld hunt them for sport to.
I see he calls you "padre" are you a priest?

To the last question, yes. To the post. no, I do not agree. violence begats violence. It is not a solution to anything. Classifying people as animals, for whatever reason, is distasteful to me. Do you think they are alone in their treatment of children in such a fashion?

I don't have a ready solution myself, but it should be pretty clear that violence is not achieving anything, for either side.

 

[sanctus]

Sanctus sometimes people don't get it until they've bin kick around a while.

As to this point. Don't get what? We "kicked around" our native population for years. What do you think they "got" from that lesson?

 

[BlackOp_Sniper]

To the last question, yes. To the post. no, I do not agree. violence begats violence. It is not a solution to anything. Classifying people as animals, for whatever reason, is distasteful to me. Do you think they are alone in their treatment of children in such a fashion?

I don't have a ready solution myself, but it should be pretty clear that violence is not achieving anything, for either side.

Pleased to meet you then father, what denomination?
As you said "violence begets violence". I have a solution to that. You won't like it, but it is the perfect solution.
Open the flood gates of hell and let loose the unholy hounds of hell, the dogs of war. Kill them all and let Allah sort out who get the virgins(CDNBear). No more muzzy assholes, no more violence.

As to this point. Don't get what? We "kicked around" our native population for years. What do you think they "got" from that lesson?

They don't get who's boss.
I love the indians. Fought along side a few. Met some from canada, crazy bastards. Drink like fish. Fight like mad men. What ain't to love. They're no different then me only they lost the war and now they have what we gave them. If they pulled the **** they pull up there down here, well have heard the story of wounded knee. Least they know they're place. If they tried the **** that the palestinians pull, they'ld end up dead though. Sad to say they are a good lot, but putting up with trifling **** ain't an American strong point.

 

[sanctus]

Pleased to meet you then father, what denomination?
As you said "violence begets violence". I have a solution to that. You won't like it, but it is the perfect solution.
Open the flood gates of hell and let loose the unholy hounds of hell, the dogs of war. Kill them all and let Allah sort out who get the virgins(CDNBear). No more muzzy assholes, no more violence.
They don't get who's boss..

What denomination! Catholic, are there others?

War and violence have never been known to settle issues. In fact, war only begins a new series of problems. We should be well advanced enough now to not have to resort to violence as a means of settling differences amongst us.

I love the indians. Fought along side a few. Met some from canada, crazy bastards. Drink like fish. Fight like mad men. What ain't to love. They're no different then me only they lost the war and now they have what we gave them. If they pulled the **** they pull up there down here, well have heard the story of wounded knee. Least they know they're place. If they tried the **** that the palestinians pull, they'ld end up dead though. Sad to say they are a good lot, but putting up with trifling **** ain't an American strong point.

My, there is a feeling inside of me that suggests you are going to eat those words fairly soon I'll leave it to Bear to share with you how much "they" like being in "their place".

 

[CDNBear]

Pleased to meet you then father, what denomination?
As you said "violence begets violence". I have a solution to that. You won't like it, but it is the perfect solution.
Open the flood gates of hell and let loose the unholy hounds of hell, the dogs of war. Kill them all and let Allah sort out who get the virgins(CDNBear). No more muzzy assholes, no more violence.
They don't get who's boss.
I love the indians. Fought along side a few. Met some from canada, crazy bastards. Drink like fish. Fight like mad men. What ain't to love. They're no different then me only they lost the war and now they have what we gave them. If they pulled the **** they pull up there down here, well have heard the story of wounded knee. Least they know they're place. If they tried the **** that the palestinians pull, they'ld end up dead though. Sad to say they are a good lot, but putting up with trifling **** ain't an American strong point.

Ummm, ya.

Let me explain something to ya.

We didn't loose all the wars. In fact the treaty process was an act to avoid all out war. The early settlers knew full well that they could not beat us on home territory, so they tried to lull us into peace.

I know my place to buddy. As much as I like your views on the ME and the contibutions of Natives in combat, me being one of them. Your condecending attitude on the homefront "indians" is tad under rated.

Wounded Knee 1 was a complete farce, a murderous massacre, committed by cowards and real baby killer. Part two was an FBI joke. The First Nations of the US have put up with a lot crap from Non natives. A lot more then they should have. Yet they continuosly enlisted and defended their new nation with honour and distinction. Seeing as you recognize that, you might want to recognise the plight hey faced at home and the fact that while they were dying in foriegn theaters of battle for the US and Canada, their families were treated as second class citizens and scum of the earth.

 

[sanctus]

Ummm, ya.

Let me explain something to ya.

We didn't loose all the wars. In fact the treaty process was an act to avoid all out war. The early settlers knew full well that they could not beat us on home territory, so they tried to lull us into peace.

I know my place to buddy. As much as I like your views on the ME and the contibutions of Natives in combat, me being one of them. Your condecending attitude on the homefront "indians" is tad under rated.

Wounded Knee 1 was a complete farce, a murderous massacre, committed by cowards and real baby killer. Part two was an FBI joke. The First Nations of the US have put up with a lot crap from Non natives. A lot more then they should have. Yet they continuosly enlisted and defended their new nation with honour and distinction. Seeing as you recognize that, you might want to recognise the plight hey faced at home and the fact that while they were dying in foriegn theaters of battle for the US and Canada, their families were treated as second class citizens and scum of the earth.

I warned him

 

[BlackOp_Sniper]

Ummm, ya.

Let me explain something to ya.

We didn't loose all the wars. In fact the treaty process was an act to avoid all out war. The early settlers knew full well that they could not beat us on home territory, so they tried to lull us into peace.

I know my place to buddy. As much as I like your views on the ME and the contibutions of Natives in combat, me being one of them. Your condecending attitude on the homefront "indians" is tad under rated.

Wounded Knee 1 was a complete farce, a murderous massacre, committed by cowards and real baby killer. Part two was an FBI joke. The First Nations of the US have put up with a lot crap from Non natives. A lot more then they should have. Yet they continuosly enlisted and defended their new nation with honour and distinction. Seeing as you recognize that, you might want to recognise the plight hey faced at home and the fact that while they were dying in foriegn theaters of battle for the US and Canada, their families were treated as second class citizens and scum of the earth.

Woe woe woe there big fella. You served you're an indian, you are one of the good guys. I'm only talking about the slackers and beggers. Most indians are the good guys in my books.
I wasn't trying to put the indians down. I grew up with them in my backyard. Down here though they aren't bitching to be put on a pillar and worshipped. They seem happy to be regular joes like the rest of us. So they pretty much know their place.
FYI I learned to bust broncs and rope from some great indians. Even have my name spoken in the stories.

 

[earth_as_one]

Here's an idea earth...

The First Nations begins a campaign of aggression against Non natives.

Firing rockets and such into residential Non native neighbourhoods, repetedly and consistantly killing noncombattants. They begin sending Natives with suicide vests into cafes and bistros killing innocents in the hundreds.

Then you can take a poll of the Non natives in that region, about what should be done with the Natives and then we'll see how the numbers turn out.

Attempting to solve disputes through violence is a mistake.

In the case of disputes between Canada's First Nations and Canada, we have mostly evolved beyond violent conflict. We still have occasional conflicts which turn violent. But all recent violent disputes have ended peacefully.

The same cannot be said of the Israel/Palestine conflict. As a result of violence, both sides loose. For example, Palestine/Israel should be crowded with tourists. It has plenty of ancient ruins, significant building, great beaches... What a shame.

Instead Palestinians have suffered 60 years of land and property confiscation. When Israel forcibly removes Palestinians from their homes, demolishes the homes, puts up a wall, confiscates the land and builds Jewish only colonies over the former Palestinian land, these people loose their dignity as well as their future. Israel's creation and growth has resulted in 4.2 million landless people without rights. Only a minority of these people have resorted to violence to fight for their freedom and justice.

While I believe in the Palestinian cause, I don't believe in all of their methods. But I do believe in this type of resistance:

Front Row Seat to a Non-Violent Palestinian Protest - WARNING: SCENES OF VIOLENCE. Some protestors are seriously hurt. Shots fired toward camera man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz8x2NqInsk

I am proud that Canada has peaceful relationship (more or less) with Canada's First Nations. That peace was achieved by Canada not only recognizing First Nations' people have the same rights as other Canadians but also unique rights as a result of their heritage.

Canada-First Nation relations are not perfect. We have not settled all lands claims nor settled all land claims fairly. But both Palestinians and Israelis could learn from our good example.

 

[CDNBear]

I got this far and stopped reading.

Attempting to solve disputes through violence is a mistake.

You contridict yourself. You seem to think it is ok to levy such actions against Israel, seeing as they occupy palestine. I can't be bothered giving you any respect, crediblity or time of day when you support the Hezbollah, a group avowed to the destruction of Israel and then make assinine statements in complete defiance of your own thoughts such as that.

 

[earth_as_one]

...Imagine sitting in an outside cafe in downtown Windsor and a Metis strapped to a bomb came in to blow the hell out of the place.....!

Its too bad people can't see why these people resort to desperate measures:

Palestinian children pay price of Israel's Summer Rain offensive
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Rights group says 197 civilians have been killed in military operation, including 48 minors[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Rory McCarthy in Gaza City
Thursday September 7, 2006
The Guardian

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[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Palestinian Hosam Sersawi, 6, lies in a critical condition in intensive care at the Shifa hospital in Gaza City after being wounded Israeli sniper fire. Photograph: Khalil Hamra/AP
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[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1866460,00.html[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]

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Israel does not consider Palestinians human beings.

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Israel: Failure to Probe Civilian Casualties Fuels Impunity

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[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]
(Jerusalem, June 22, 2005) — The Israeli military has fostered a climate of impunity in its ranks by failing to thoroughly investigate whether soldiers have killed and injured Palestinian civilians unlawfully or failed to protect them from harm, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today.

Since the current Palestinian uprising began in 2000, Israeli forces have killed or seriously injured thousands of Palestinians who were not taking part in the hostilities. However, the Israeli authorities have investigated fewer than five percent of the fatal incidents to determine whether soldiers were responsible for using force unlawfully. The investigations they did conduct fell far short of international standards for independent and impartial inquiries.

The 126-page report, “Promoting Impunity: The Israeli Military’s Failure to Investigate Wrongdoing,” documents how Israel has failed in its legal obligation to investigate civilian deaths and injuries...

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/06/22/isrlpa11148.htm

Even Israeli historians acknowledge that Israel is in the process of wiping Palestine and Palestinians off the map.

Ilan Pappe: Israeli Jewish myths and the prospect of American war

Interview by Greg Dropkin
Published: 13/09/02

Dr. Ilan Pappe is an Israeli historian at Haifa University who writes on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict...


I think there are 3 main myths that inform mainstream Israeli Jewish society. A lot of them still believe, because that’s the way they have been educated, that Palestine had been empty when the Jewish settlers came there in the late 19th century. There is still a feeling there that basically the Palestinian inhabitants of Palestine are either a nuisance or newcomers, or irrelevant. They are an obstacle, but not people with rights or indigenous rights.

The second myth is more directly connected to 1948. Most Israeli Jews believe that the Palestinians left voluntarily in 1948. They are not aware, or do not want to be aware of the fact that an ethnic cleansing took place in 1948.
And the third myth concerns the Occupation...

http://www.labournet.net/world/0209/pappe1.html

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[Zzarchov]

Im sorry Earth as One

But Israel doesn't exist, how can it hate anyone?

You said it yourself, violence solves nothing. And nothing the Palestinians have suffered through Justify it.

And knock it off with talking about how "much they suffered". Of the many, many oppressed groups on this planet, the Palestinians aren't even on the bottom half of the "Shiddy-Life-O-Meter"

Go to Sierra Leonne, Go to Rwanda, Go to Indo-China, Go to Indonesia then talk about what real suffering is. While far from Living in a Paradise, in the grande scheme of the World the Palestinians are better off on a bad day than many, MANY people are on their best days.

And many of those groups avoid resorting to violence, even as they are hacked to bits with Machettes.

The Palestinians choose to live by the sword, so to will they die by the sword. Israel may suffer the same fate, but that doesn't change the choice the Palestinians have made.

 

[gopher]

```My point being, most of the left claim to be pacifists as well.```

Really? I don't know of any lefties who are pacifists -- perhaps that's something that goes on in Canada. Here in the States, lefties are far more inclined to enlist and fight in wars than the righties who love to stand by and watch as everyone else does their fighting for them.


```Israel's ... treatment of the Palestinians has been too high handed.```

That's why Albert Einstein and Hannah Arendt called it a fascist state and why so many Orthodox as well as liberal Jews in the USA call it the same.

 

[gopher]

```They seem happy to be regular joes like the rest of us. So they pretty much know their place.```

Whew!