They are beyond bitter as they are the same as the Anti-War Movement in the United States who use banners like this to get their message across of how much they hate the Military and their own Country..
Anti-war crowd are demoralizing our troops.
- Thread starter Sassylassie
- Start date
They are beyond bitter as they are the same as the Anti-War Movement in the United States who use banners like this to get their message across of how much they hate the Military and their own Country..
hmmm should I stay and fight..or move to Alberta.....
Think I'll stay..I'd continue fighting the communist Kitten killers even from the safe walls of the west ehehehe!!
remember to vote NDP..the new demons party
Think I'll stay..I'd continue fighting the communist Kitten killers even from the safe walls of the west ehehehe!!
remember to vote NDP..the new demons party
They are beyond bitter as they are the same as the Anti-War Movement in the United States who use banners like this to get their message across of how much they hate the Military and their own Country..
Interesting banner. Do you know who actually put it there? Back in the 1960s COINTELPRO was organized by the FBI and put up similar placards, burned the USA flag, and created riots in order to discredit the anti-war effort. Do a google search on that group if you don't believe it.
Are you sure anti-war people hate their own country? Does that include the conservative John Birch Society, CATO Institute, William F. Buckley (who founded the conservative movement), Pat Buchanan of Amcon, and other conservatives who condemn this war with the same vigor as other patriots do?????
Interesting how none of the right wingers on this forum have offered to enlist in order to fight their war. To me this type of sissyness is totally laughable and is not worthy of respect. I feel that if you don't vote every year then you have no complaint about political conditions. Similarly, if you don't fight then you have no business saying that you support war. Shoot your guns rather than your unpatriotic mouths and you'll be doing a a lot more to support your war.
Actually, hence it's the only arguement he makes, everything comes back to GW. Oh ya and Christians slaughtering Muslims, in the name of GW. Great now he's got me bringing it all back to GW. Someone needs a new arguement or a new magazine.
Goopher, my sons tell people about their Father, who wore the Uniform of his country and took a stand for what was right(Stand and Deliver), what will your children say of you.
I really think they hate the military, because they do not believe they'ld measure up, if they enlisted.
They are beyond bitter as they are the same as the Anti-War Movement in the United States who use banners like this to get their message across of how much they hate the Military and their own Country..
Bear I've always wonder why the peaceniks froth at the mouth and splay spittle at people when the Military comes up as a topic, thanks for your insight because it never occured to me that they were failed enlisteees. It makes sense thou, the Military is not excepting the weak anymore perhaps it's just bitterness and not hatred. I couldn't get into the RCMP because I failed their height and weight reguirement but I'm not bitter. No sir ree, I could get in now because they've removed the reguirements but hell I'm to small to hold up a holster and pepper spray and the baton and all that other stuff. Still not bitter thou.
LOL, you would have been a fine Officer.
Like I said before, my Dad was an RCMP Officer after he left the Army, he was in the Musical Ride, and then went on to Narcotics. Despite the recent stupidity, they are still the best in the world, in my books. Well actually, I lied, all Police Officers are and Fire Fighters, Paramedics, Nurses, Doctors. Anyone willing to train and learn how to "Stand and Deliver" when the shyte hits the fan, is ok by me.
that is just rediculous.
I guess when there is no valid argument attacking the messenger is the fallback for some.
Oh well.
Then why the hate, why is it so wrong to stand up and say, "hey guys, I can not agree with why you are there, but we love ya, we miss ya, come home safe and soon"? Why is that such a foriegn or evil thing to say?
Most of you are so self absorbed and wound up in this left vs. Right fight, you have lost the very ablity to comprhend the values of the little things that mean so much.
When I was over seas, I looked so forward to reading letters from kids, kids I didn't even know, from all over Canada. I loved it, it made my grueling days and lonely F*CKING nights all that much more bearable. If you can not grasp that one minute little thought then F*CK you, you are not worth dying for.(Not addressed to anyone in particular)
Go on, just keep on hating.
Exactly why are you accusing me of "hating"?
I was pointing out that every person has his/her own reasons for supporting or opposing. Perhaps some do just "hate" the military, perhaps some have direct issues with individuals in a uniform, but for the most part protests against war are about the war itself.
Now as to your letters, whatever floats your boat. Strength in service should include the ability to function independent of the fickleness of the mob, for starters. Now as to children who have been programmed to think a certian way about a certian topic: you might as well be getting comfort from a parrot praising you. People delude themselves though, and that is all people.
I was pointing out that every person has his/her own reasons for supporting or opposing. Perhaps some do just "hate" the military, perhaps some have direct issues with individuals in a uniform, but for the most part protests against war are about the war itself.
Now as to your letters, whatever floats your boat. Strength in service should include the ability to function independent of the fickleness of the mob, for starters. Now as to children who have been programmed to think a certian way about a certian topic: you might as well be getting comfort from a parrot praising you. People delude themselves though, and that is all people.
That programming is a two way street, I see alot of liberal/NDP type thinking coming out of Universities and Colleges lately. But that is niether here nor there.
What I asked is, why is so hard to accept that sometimes the issue is so much simpler then we make it?
What mob are you talking about? I'm not a mob, and I don't easily fall in with the "crowd". This issue is not about a "mob" mentallity. It's about our boys, period.
Why do so many have to denigrate the whole notion of support for the Troops to a political issue, when it is clear that it is not now, nor ever been that way. And as a Trooper, I can assure you, we don't see it as a political issue, we see it for what it is. Support for us, and us alone. Not Harper, Bush or whom may lead the liberals.
I see the old "with us or against us" mentality is strong in you, sassy.
"the mob" is the fickle nature of public opinion of the populace. Given the populace is fed its diet of info rather than having direct understanding, it is easily manipulated and thus for a person serving overseas to be dependent on the mood of that mob for morale is dangerous.
Blind support of anything is dangerous, and that includes troops. When troops are acting in a way congruent with the expectations of the civilian, yes, you should perhaps expect the support of him/her. What you should support more though is that civilian wanting to see an end of conflict, and an equal support for your bretheren on the opposite side of the battle. Only in seeing past the politics and looking at the humanity do we find a lasting solution. You also need to see that any type of conflict is reprehensible to some people. Supporting somebody willingly killing over anything is unacceptable to them. Does this mean they hate you? No. It means they will not support anything that violates their own core values. So why belittle those that see things diffently than yourself? This type of misunderstanding is one way in which conflict begins.
If we cared, really cared, it would be about all the boys and girls. It would not be about "our boys".
The US is not "intervening" in a war in Afghanistan. They invaded Afghanistan to crush the Taliban, because they hid Osama and would not turn him over.
In the red...
Oh please, lets not get PC here. If you have ever read anything I've said about the Troops, I have always said "men and women", in the heat of a typing frenzy, I missed one. I make no gender distinction in my support.
In the blue...
That is the first time I have ever heard someone say that. I can accept that. Thank you. I can and do agree with that statement. No one has ever said anything that smart about this issue before, where have you been hiding?
"Only the dead have seen the end of war". I have no idea who said that, but it is the truth.
Where is Osama now? That's what bothers me. We are waisting our resources in Afghanistan. America is in deep in this illegal, groundless war in Iraq, and Osama is getting more support now. America, and now Canada, has more enemies then ever. And our troops are no where near to finding Osama Bin Laden.
bear,
i wasn't getting PC. When I said "all the boys and girls" I meant everybody on all sides of the conflict. I would not want harm to fall you while you served, but I equally would not want the person "on the other side" to suffer either.
""Only the dead have seen the end of war". I have no idea who said that, but it is the truth."
Along with, "the only good to come from war is it ending".
i wasn't getting PC. When I said "all the boys and girls" I meant everybody on all sides of the conflict. I would not want harm to fall you while you served, but I equally would not want the person "on the other side" to suffer either.
""Only the dead have seen the end of war". I have no idea who said that, but it is the truth."
Along with, "the only good to come from war is it ending".
Sorry, I took that out of context. But I really really like what you said. Now that you said it, it took a loty ofth ewind out of my sails, and my mouth, lol.
That truly is the most valid thing anyone has ever said in defence of not supporting the Troops. I can see it, understand it and agree with it. Hell, I will even defend it. Good call. You get my respect for that one.
my sons tell people about their Father, who wore the Uniform of his country and took a stand for what was right(Stand and Deliver), what will your children say of you.
Interesting if true. If you are the warrior that you say you are, what have you done to avenge the deaths of over 200,000 Ixils (who are members of your race) at the hands of hate filled white Christians from the YWAM-Gospel Outreach of California.* This racist anti-Catholic hate cult spread terrorism in Guatemala in the name of Jesus Christ and are still laughing and celebrating to this day. So while you continue to defend them, they are enjoying the money they pocketed after they stole treasures from those innocents.
* http://www.rickross.com/reference/youth/youth6.html
see also,
http://www.preventgenocide.org/news-monitor/2005mar2.htm
Guatemala
IPS 25 Mar 2005 US Restores Military Aid After 15-Year Hiatus Jim Lobe WASHINGTON, Mar 25 (IPS) - The restoration of U.S. military aid to Guatemala 15 years after it was suspended for human rights abuses was assailed late Thursday by several rights groups, who said the move was premature. On a visit to the Guatemalan capital earlier in the day, U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld announced that the George W. Bush administration was releasing 3.2 million dollars in aid to reward the government of President Oscar Berger for reforming the armed forces whose human rights record in the 1980s was considered the worst in the Americas. ”I've been impressed by the reforms that have been undertaken in the armed forces,” Rumsfeld told reporters. ”I know it is a difficult thing to do, but it's been done with professionalism and transparency.” But rights groups did not agree with his assessment, although they did give Berger credit for making efforts in the right direction. ”Despite its commitment to ending impunity and combating clandestine groups, the Berger administration has demonstrated a lack of political will and ability to make progress in establishing an effective mechanism to investigate and dismantle clandestine groups,” according to a joint statement by the Washington Office on Latin America (WOLA), the Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Centre for Human Rights, and other groups. It noted that these clandestine groups or illegal armed groups, which were supposed to have been dismantled after the signing of the historic 1996 Peace Accords, are believed to have ties to Guatemala's military intelligence apparatus, which is also widely believed to have become increasingly active in drug trafficking and organised crime. The rights groups, which also included the Network in Solidarity with the People of Guatemala (NISGUA) and the Guatemala Human Rights Commission, added that at least 26 human rights defenders have been threatened or attacked, presumably by or at the instigation of the clandestine groups, so far this year after a reported 122 attacks in 2004. ”The clandestine groups have become a serious obstacle to the peace process, rule of law, democracy, and the respect for human rights and must be stopped,” the groups declared. Despite the relatively small dollar value of the package announced by Rumsfeld, the resumption of U.S. military aid marks a real landmark in U.S. relations with the Guatemalan armed forces, which it actually put in power in a 1954 CIA-directed coup d'etat against the civilian government led by President Jacobo Arbenz. The record of U.S. complicity with a succession of military governments is relatively complete due to the release of thousands of secret documents obtained by the independent National Security Archive (NSA), which helped Guatemala's U.N.-backed Historical Clarification Commission conduct a major study in the late 1990s. The Guatemalan commission, set up under the 1996 U.N.-mediated peace accord, found the country's military guilty of ”acts of genocide” against the Indian population during the 36-year civil war and of 93 percent of the estimated 200,000 killings which took place. It also found that Washington, particularly through its spy agencies, ”lent direct and indirect support to some illegal state operations.” So thorough was the documentation that U.S. President Bill Clinton felt compelled to apologise during an informal gathering of leaders from Guatemalan civic groups during a four-day tour of Central America in 1999. ”For the United States, it is important that I state clearly that support for military forces or intelligence units which engaged in violent and widespread repression, of the kind described in the report, was wrong,” he said. ”The United States must not repeat that mistake.” One 1966 report obtained by the NSA revealed how U.S. personnel advised Guatemala's military intelligence on setting up a safe house in the presidential palace to coordinate counter-insurgency operations. That office, at which a CIA officer also worked until well into the 1970's, evolved into an operation which Amnesty International denounced in 1980 as the headquarters for political murder in Guatemala and was finally officially dissolved only two years ago. State Department, CIA and Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA) officers reported in detail about specific operations, including kidnapping, torture, and murder, carried out by the Guatemalan army and its paramilitary auxiliaries over more than 30 years. The documents also revealed that U.S. intelligence agencies knew about specific massacres committed by the army in the early 1980s, even while senior officials of the Ronald Reagan administration assured Congress that reports of such atrocities were disinformation spread by solidarity groups and Amnesty International. Congress forbade most military aid to the government during the period, but Washington spent millions of dollars on covert support to Guatemala's army during the period, halting it only in 1990 when it was disclosed that an army colonel on the CIA's payroll had been responsible for the murder of a U.S. innkeeper and the torture-killing of a guerrilla leader who was married to a U.S. lawyer. After the peace accords, rights abuses have generally diminished, but activists, particularly those involved in investigating notorious massacres and assassinations of the 1980s, have repeatedly been threatened and occasionally assaulted or even murdered. Judges and prosecutors were also subject to threats from clandestine groups. According to the final report of the U.N. Verification Mission to Guatemala (MINUGUA) published in January last year, ”attempts to investigate and prosecute security forces members for atrocities committed during the conflict have been generally unsuccessful; those who try have been subject to threats, violence and years of judicial obstruction.” Rights groups agree that some advances have been made, particularly under Berger's administration. Among other things, the armed forces have been reduced to 15,000 soldiers from 27,000 and have adopted a new military doctrine that emphasises defence against external attack, rather than counter-insurgency. ”The shadows that have plagued our army have disappeared,” Berger said Thursday. But the rights groups complain that the military continues to participate in joint police-military operations in direct violation of the Peace Accords. They note that a landmark agreement signed in January 2004 to establish a U.N.-led Commission for the Investigation of Illegal Armed Groups and Clandestine Security Apparatuses, an initiative supported by Washington, was struck down as a result of a court decision. New proposals put forward last November to revive it have so far not moved forward, according to the rights groups. But the Bush administration, increasingly concerned about drug-trafficking through Guatemala in particularly, has decided to restore funding now. Almost three billion of the 3.2 million dollars that is being restored will be used to upgrade Guatemala's air force and small navy for use in drug-interdiction operations.
Interesting if true. If you are the warrior that you say you are, what have you done to avenge the deaths of over 200,000 Ixils (who are members of your race) at the hands of hate filled white Christians from the YWAM-Gospel Outreach of California.* This racist anti-Catholic hate cult spread terrorism in Guatemala in the name of Jesus Christ and are still laughing and celebrating to this day. So while you continue to defend them, they are enjoying the money they pocketed after they stole treasures from those innocents.
* http://www.rickross.com/reference/youth/youth6.html
see also,
http://www.preventgenocide.org/news-monitor/2005mar2.htm
Guatemala
IPS 25 Mar 2005 US Restores Military Aid After 15-Year Hiatus Jim Lobe WASHINGTON, Mar 25 (IPS) - The restoration of U.S. military aid to Guatemala 15 years after it was suspended for human rights abuses was assailed late Thursday by several rights groups, who said the move was premature. On a visit to the Guatemalan capital earlier in the day, U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld announced that the George W. Bush administration was releasing 3.2 million dollars in aid to reward the government of President Oscar Berger for reforming the armed forces whose human rights record in the 1980s was considered the worst in the Americas. ”I've been impressed by the reforms that have been undertaken in the armed forces,” Rumsfeld told reporters. ”I know it is a difficult thing to do, but it's been done with professionalism and transparency.” But rights groups did not agree with his assessment, although they did give Berger credit for making efforts in the right direction. ”Despite its commitment to ending impunity and combating clandestine groups, the Berger administration has demonstrated a lack of political will and ability to make progress in establishing an effective mechanism to investigate and dismantle clandestine groups,” according to a joint statement by the Washington Office on Latin America (WOLA), the Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Centre for Human Rights, and other groups. It noted that these clandestine groups or illegal armed groups, which were supposed to have been dismantled after the signing of the historic 1996 Peace Accords, are believed to have ties to Guatemala's military intelligence apparatus, which is also widely believed to have become increasingly active in drug trafficking and organised crime. The rights groups, which also included the Network in Solidarity with the People of Guatemala (NISGUA) and the Guatemala Human Rights Commission, added that at least 26 human rights defenders have been threatened or attacked, presumably by or at the instigation of the clandestine groups, so far this year after a reported 122 attacks in 2004. ”The clandestine groups have become a serious obstacle to the peace process, rule of law, democracy, and the respect for human rights and must be stopped,” the groups declared. Despite the relatively small dollar value of the package announced by Rumsfeld, the resumption of U.S. military aid marks a real landmark in U.S. relations with the Guatemalan armed forces, which it actually put in power in a 1954 CIA-directed coup d'etat against the civilian government led by President Jacobo Arbenz. The record of U.S. complicity with a succession of military governments is relatively complete due to the release of thousands of secret documents obtained by the independent National Security Archive (NSA), which helped Guatemala's U.N.-backed Historical Clarification Commission conduct a major study in the late 1990s. The Guatemalan commission, set up under the 1996 U.N.-mediated peace accord, found the country's military guilty of ”acts of genocide” against the Indian population during the 36-year civil war and of 93 percent of the estimated 200,000 killings which took place. It also found that Washington, particularly through its spy agencies, ”lent direct and indirect support to some illegal state operations.” So thorough was the documentation that U.S. President Bill Clinton felt compelled to apologise during an informal gathering of leaders from Guatemalan civic groups during a four-day tour of Central America in 1999. ”For the United States, it is important that I state clearly that support for military forces or intelligence units which engaged in violent and widespread repression, of the kind described in the report, was wrong,” he said. ”The United States must not repeat that mistake.” One 1966 report obtained by the NSA revealed how U.S. personnel advised Guatemala's military intelligence on setting up a safe house in the presidential palace to coordinate counter-insurgency operations. That office, at which a CIA officer also worked until well into the 1970's, evolved into an operation which Amnesty International denounced in 1980 as the headquarters for political murder in Guatemala and was finally officially dissolved only two years ago. State Department, CIA and Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA) officers reported in detail about specific operations, including kidnapping, torture, and murder, carried out by the Guatemalan army and its paramilitary auxiliaries over more than 30 years. The documents also revealed that U.S. intelligence agencies knew about specific massacres committed by the army in the early 1980s, even while senior officials of the Ronald Reagan administration assured Congress that reports of such atrocities were disinformation spread by solidarity groups and Amnesty International. Congress forbade most military aid to the government during the period, but Washington spent millions of dollars on covert support to Guatemala's army during the period, halting it only in 1990 when it was disclosed that an army colonel on the CIA's payroll had been responsible for the murder of a U.S. innkeeper and the torture-killing of a guerrilla leader who was married to a U.S. lawyer. After the peace accords, rights abuses have generally diminished, but activists, particularly those involved in investigating notorious massacres and assassinations of the 1980s, have repeatedly been threatened and occasionally assaulted or even murdered. Judges and prosecutors were also subject to threats from clandestine groups. According to the final report of the U.N. Verification Mission to Guatemala (MINUGUA) published in January last year, ”attempts to investigate and prosecute security forces members for atrocities committed during the conflict have been generally unsuccessful; those who try have been subject to threats, violence and years of judicial obstruction.” Rights groups agree that some advances have been made, particularly under Berger's administration. Among other things, the armed forces have been reduced to 15,000 soldiers from 27,000 and have adopted a new military doctrine that emphasises defence against external attack, rather than counter-insurgency. ”The shadows that have plagued our army have disappeared,” Berger said Thursday. But the rights groups complain that the military continues to participate in joint police-military operations in direct violation of the Peace Accords. They note that a landmark agreement signed in January 2004 to establish a U.N.-led Commission for the Investigation of Illegal Armed Groups and Clandestine Security Apparatuses, an initiative supported by Washington, was struck down as a result of a court decision. New proposals put forward last November to revive it have so far not moved forward, according to the rights groups. But the Bush administration, increasingly concerned about drug-trafficking through Guatemala in particularly, has decided to restore funding now. Almost three billion of the 3.2 million dollars that is being restored will be used to upgrade Guatemala's air force and small navy for use in drug-interdiction operations.