Another U.S. scandal- More Gulags in Kosovo

moghrabi

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May 25, 2004
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Another U.S. scandal- More Gulags in Kosovo
11/26/2005 3:40:00 PM GMT



It appears more and more that the U.S. gulags, mostly out of reach of human rights groups and international humanitarian organisations by virtue of being offshore, are now a permanent fixture in the shadowy underpinnings of the American intelligence apparatus.

In an interview with France's Le Monde newspaper, the Council of Europe's Commissioner for Human Rights, Alvaro Gil Robles, revealed yesterday that he witnessed a "small Guantanamo" at Camp Bondsteel, used by the U.S. military in Kosovo.

"The center looked like Guantanamo on a small scale. Explanations are still needed," Robles told the French newspaper.

The Council of Europe, which guarantees human rights in its 46 member states, is currently investigating allegations of CIA-run secret prisons, according to the Mail and Guardian Online.

The camp, which acts as the main detention centre for KFOR, the Nato-led Kosovo peacekeeping force deployed in the United Nations-administered province in June 1999, resembled "a smaller version of Guantanamo", he told France's Le Monde newspaper, referring to the U.S. centre at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where hundreds of terrorism suspects remain detained without trial.

Accompanied by Commander of the multinational forces for Kosovo (KFOR), Lieutenant-General, Marcel Valentin, Gil-Robles inspected the centre, located within the U.S. military's Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo, in September 2002, to investigate reports of extrajudicial arrests by NATO-led peacekeepers, he said, describing seeing "small wooden huts ringed by tall barbed wire", each housing "between 15 and 20 prisoners ... wearing orange boiler-suits like the ones worn by Guantanamo inmates".

"The prisoners were mostly sitting, some locked up in isolation cells. Some of them were bearded. Some were reading the Qur’an," Robles said about the camp.



Robles added that he was “shocked” by the conditions at the facility, located south of Pristina and operated exclusively by the U.S. military, adding to the mounting international criticism Bush’s government had been facing over the abuse of prisoners and what it calls “terror suspects”, Washington has been recently accused of maintaining a network of so-called "black sites" -- covert CIA detention centres in several countries in Asia and eastern Europe -- where suspects are subjected to heinous abuse and torture.

But Robles said he can’t assert that Camp Bondsteel is linked to the CIA operations.

"But I do believe that an explanation should be given for this base in Kosovo, as for other potentially suspect sites" in Europe, he told the paper.

The official leading the probe said Friday that Romania, which rights groups have labelled a likely site for one of the secret centres, was not hosting a large, Guantanamo-style jail.

Speaking at a news conference in Bucharest, Dick Marty, the official leading the Council of Europe probe into the CIA-run network of prisons, said he was "convinced that there are no Guantanamos in Romania".

"I don't think it would be possible to set up a centre like Guantanamo in Europe," said Marty. "If Romanian officials tell me they are not hosting a Guantanamo, I trust them."

Detainees at Camp Bondsteel have no access to lawyers, and don’t fall under any legal jurisdiction, according to Le Monde.



"A female U.S. soldier, on the prison staff, told me that she had just arrived after having served at the Guantanamo base," The rights envoy said, adding that he decided to speak out following reports of the CIA secret prisons in Eastern Europe and the launch of The Council of Europe investigation into whether they do exist.

Numerous stories that prove that prisoners held in U.S. custody in Guantanamo and elsewhere were subject to abuse and torture have already leaked out, but have been mostly portrayed by Bush’s admin as fantasies from bad actors.

http://tinyurl.com/ddl6g
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
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RE: Another U.S. scandal-

"W" Really is a monster. The US is the self proclaimed leader of the free world but in reality they are no better than the 3rd world dictatorships they routinley blast.

They should lead by example, but they do not. Shame on them.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Another U.S. scandal-

Bush is a monster and the US should lead by example. Now that the existence of these camps is coming out though, it puts international political pressure on the US to smarten the hell up and domestic pressure on US politicians to not support this kind of thing.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Re: RE: Another U.S. scandal-

no1important said:
"W" Really is a monster. The US is the self proclaimed leader of the free world but in reality they are no better than the 3rd world dictatorships they routinley blast.

They should lead by example, but they do not. Shame on them.


indeed. Notice the silence about this information as it comes out??? The americans are so quick to condemn, blast and brand anyone that ....in their now perverse view is "out of line"...and yet when they are obviously doing the very thing they supposedly abhor ......they maintain a complicit silence. This goes beyond the double standard....

It is as if they don't care.........or have magnified this sense of entitlement to include conduct of all kinds .....including atrocities......as in their minds they can "justify" just about anything.

(he who "justifies" does not convince".....

Me thinks it is time to re evaluate what kind of "world leader" the BUSR (bushevik US REGIME)really is. Definately NOT of human rights. Definately NOT Of political finesse. NOT of fiscal management. (into far too much debt now......and that taints them as a "leader". ) Freedom??? Not so much now with all the new constraints in place. Democracy??? Nope......America is was designed as a republic , not a "democracy" Even their elections are not tainted and highly suspect.

An example to the world?? What kind of example??

Sadly....... me fears that even more such information will be coming out now. Germany had its concentration camps , the US has its secret prisons......and we do not know what really goes on there ......yet.

Some might rebuttle this with: the US does not gas people. Not a rebuttle.......as if that is the only arguement the US has left......it is a sorry state of affairs indeed.

( but it fully supports the death penalty .......so there goes that one).

The entire fabric of the US has changed drastically.....and not sure it can be reversed or corrected . The BUSR is leaving indelible marks on the nation.....and will have long term impact.--well after bush is gone.

"Secret " prisons..... :evil: Whatever is the need for that kind of facility in this era??? Of course the US warlords will spin something to 'Justify" this.. :evil:
 

Foo1

New Member
Well, you have to remember that the terrorists evidently do not obey the human rights conventions as well and probably torture American prisoners if they have the chace. The terrorists are devoted to their cause to a fanatical level and are willing to ignore every human rights convention to achieve their goal. If the American's do not use some of their techniques, they will be fighting this battle with one hand behind it;s back at the cost of many innocent lives. Think of it this way, you torture or dehumanize a few people to potentialy save the lives of thousands.

I'm not supporting torture, in fact I hate it and I think the Americans should be ashamed. Still, there are always two sides to any argument and all I'm saying is that torture is an effective method of getting information and potentialy saving thousands of lives. Does the right of one induvidual take precedence over the right to live of potentialy thousands of people??
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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Re: RE: Another U.S. scandal-

Ocean Breeze said:
no1important said:
"W" Really is a monster. The US is the self proclaimed leader of the free world but in reality they are no better than the 3rd world dictatorships they routinley blast.

They should lead by example, but they do not. Shame on them.


indeed. Notice the silence about this information as it comes out??? The americans are so quick to condemn, blast and brand anyone that ....in their now perverse view is "out of line"...and yet when they are obviously doing the very thing they supposedly abhor ......they maintain a complicit silence. This goes beyond the double standard....

It is as if they don't care.........or have magnified this sense of entitlement to include conduct of all kinds .....including atrocities......as in their minds they can "justify" just about anything.

(he who "justifies" does not convince".....

Me thinks it is time to re evaluate what kind of "world leader" the BUSR (bushevik US REGIME)really is. Definately NOT of human rights. Definately NOT Of political finesse. NOT of fiscal management. (into far too much debt now......and that taints them as a "leader". ) Freedom??? Not so much now with all the new constraints in place. Democracy??? Nope......America is was designed as a republic , not a "democracy" Even their elections are not tainted and highly suspect.

An example to the world?? What kind of example??

Sadly....... me fears that even more such information will be coming out now. Germany had its concentration camps , the US has its secret prisons......and we do not know what really goes on there ......yet.

Some might rebuttle this with: the US does not gas people. Not a rebuttle.......as if that is the only arguement the US has left......it is a sorry state of affairs indeed.

( but it fully supports the death penalty .......so there goes that one).

The entire fabric of the US has changed drastically.....and not sure it can be reversed or corrected . The BUSR is leaving indelible marks on the nation.....and will have long term impact.--well after bush is gone.

"Secret " prisons..... :evil: Whatever is the need for that kind of facility in this era??? Of course the US warlords will spin something to 'Justify" this.. :evil:

You might be right that the US does not gas people, but they are the only nation to nuke another one.
 

Foo1

New Member
Albiet 60 years ago before they knew the effects of radiation on the body and in a war against a determined and dangerous enemy which would be defeated only by the loss of millions of soldiers and civilains on both sides and immesurable damage to Japanese infrastructure
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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Re: RE: Another U.S. scandal- More Gulags in Kosovo

Foo1 said:
Albiet 60 years ago before they knew the effects of radiation on the body and in a war against a determined and dangerous enemy which would be defeated only by the loss of millions of soldiers and civilains on both sides and immesurable damage to Japanese infrastructure

Foo.

I don't buy that at all. Are you telling me that the US did not know what the dangers of dropping the nuclear bomb on Japan? Did I misunderstand what you said? Please correct me if I did.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
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all I'm saying is that torture is an effective method of getting information and potentialy saving thousands of lives

NO it is not........and has been proven to be the case.

torture is barbaric and a civilized nation.........or one that claims to be civilized would reject every aspect of this kind of thinking.

reducing oneself to the terrorist level just makes both of you barbarians..... and NOTHING is accomplished......except a stalling of human progress.