Another Alberta Message

[MMMike]

They are likely to learn a lot, even flunking out of arts. Hell, they can learn a lot just by sitting around the campus pub. The money is there, fund them.

Will you pay me to sit around the campus pub 'learning', Rev? Where do I sign up? They can also learn alot at the public library, for a few bucks in late fees.

Those at the bottom of the wage scale do not save enough in taxes to pay for daycare. The lack of access to daycare can keep them from advancing so they earn more, and can lead to generational reinforcement of the issues that lead to low-wage positions.

At the same time, tax breaks for the rich combined with special programs for low wage earners lead to the children of low wage earners receiving sub-standard care. Those same programs are the most likely to be cancelled in the future as the neo-cons ramp up their continuing war on the poor.

Ah, but I would support higher minimum wages and some form of guaranteed minimum income. This is a much more efficient way of redistributing money than to tax it from everybody, then dole it out to a few. It also preserves choice in childcare, prevents the unions from getting an iron grip on daycares much as they have on schools.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Will you pay me to sit around the campus pub 'learning', Rev? Where do I sign up?

I support the first four years of post-secondary education being paid for by the government, so yes I am willing to pay for you gain access to the university pub.

Ah, but I would support higher minimum wages and some form of guaranteed minimum income. This is a much more efficient way of redistributing money than to tax it from everybody, then dole it out to a few. It also preserves choice in childcare, prevents the unions from getting an iron grip on daycares much as they have on schools.

A higher minimum wage, and the article suggests ten bucks an hour, is not enough to pay for daycare. Neither is a guaranteed annual income that simply places you just above the poverty line. While I support both of those things, they do not offer access to child care.

It is much more efficient to tax everybody, then supply the service to everybody who wants it. The wealthy would still have the choice of placing their kids in private day care, but everybody would have access to public daycare if they so chose.

 

[Hank C Cheyenne]

the thing about this whole daycare fiasco is that we still have to do major repair to health care but the funds keep going to more and more social programs. Lets fix what we got before moving on...... and people don't understand that lower taxes mean more stimulation to the economy....the 4.6 billion deal the libs and the NDP made was projected to create approx 250 000 jobs for Canadians.

..plus with all you neo libs predicting a fall of the US economy..... how do you think that Canada will be able to maintian the social programs once this happens.......think about it..

 

[Hank C Cheyenne]

It is much more efficient to tax everybody, then supply the service to everybody who wants it. The wealthy would still have the choice of placing their kids in private day care, but everybody would have access to public daycare if they so chose.

... and why the hell can't health care be like this as well?

 

[Reverend Blair]

and why the hell can't health care be like this as well?

Two reasons...chapter 11 of NAFTA and the fact that there are far fewer medical professionals than child care workers.

plus with all you neo libs

If you knew anything about neo-liberal policies, you wouldn't call us that. Neo-liberalism is just neo-conservatism without the jingoism and religiousity.

the thing about this whole daycare fiasco is that we still have to do major repair to health care but the funds keep going to more and more social programs. Lets fix what we got before moving on...... and people don't understand that lower taxes mean more stimulation to the economy....the 4.6 billion deal the libs and the NDP made was projected to create approx 250 000 jobs for Canadians.

If you would have taken the time to read the article, you would have found that there would be a lotmore money available if Ralphie was looking out for Albertans instead of his corporate buddies at Exxon. The oil companies would be there anyway, because they need the product. Charging those companies a reasonable rate for a commodity that belongs to the people of Alberta, not Ralph Klein, is not taxation of corporations, it is charging a fair market rate.

Those 250,000 jobs were highly theoretical and projected to be mostly low-paying, low benefit, and part-time. Such jobs do very little to stimulate the economy. Most of the money, experience shows us, would flow to the US.

Putting that money into infrastructure produces decently paid jobs with benefits and keeps the money in Canada, both of which act as economic stimulants while directly improving the quality of life for the Canadians who live in those communities.

 

[Hank C Cheyenne]

One interesting point is that fact that Saskatchewan is a have province.....but they pay the feds $1.07 for every $1.00 of oil ....funny.

Thats the reason here in Alberta we are more vocal and skeptical of the feds....we won't vote for stupid socialists who will put Alberta in the same boat as Saskatchewan.....my god if Alberta was getting ripped off that much there would be instant seperation..... thus we vote for people like Klien and conservatives to build firewalls and keep Alberta's wealth in Alberta........ imagine Alberta being run by a pu$$y socalist like Lorne Calvert.....ha ha ha... funny but scary

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Another Alberta Messa

The bad deal on oil revenues actually dates to the Devine government. He was one of yours, Hanky.

 

[zenfisher]

How are you voting in both US and Canadian elections Hank ?

 

[Hank C Cheyenne]

ahhhhh Grant Devine heard about him from Saskatchewan folk.... but historically Sask has been more socalist while Alberta tends to be more Conservative........ now do you think if Alberta was getting as shafted by the feds as Sask is.... the reaction would be the same....dang I been to Sask a few times and read the StarPhoenix quite often and no one there even cares or stands up for all the BS going on (generalization).....also look at Lorne Calvert that type of crap dosen't float here in Alberta.

How are you voting in both US and Canadian elections Hank ?

..well I have lived in Canada since 2001 but I did not become a Canadian citizen till 2004........ actually I diden't get to vote in the most recent Canadian federal election but I was able to vote in the provincial election 2004 after I became Canadian.

 

[zenfisher]

I see.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Another Alberta Messa

Historically, Grant Devine was still a Conservative. His policies were actually very similar to Klein's.

I doubt you know much at all about Calvert, and you seem to have skipped the whole of Romanow's tenure. Funny how it took a socialist to turn Saskatchewan into a have province, though. I mean, especially since it was one of your arch-conservatives that almost bankrupted the province.

Imagine what kind of shape the place would have been in if they would have stuck with the NDP. They were in the black before Devine took over, and became a have province about a decade after he was done trying to wreck the place. Without those lost years, Saskatchewan would be almost as rich as Alberta. If only they wouldn't have elected those damned Conservatives.

 

[Hank C Cheyenne]

Grant Devine hmmmm...... from what I've heard he was given bad finances before he came into office.....the NDP had large hidden debts and Devine just wrote them off which accounted for a large part of the deficit of his term......

....but don't get me wrong I am not a supporter of him....actually Sask people view him pretty negatively...... corrupt bastard

....dosen't matter though and no he is no Ralph Klein... who did a amazing job in the province in the lean years and we are all reaping the benefits now....and yes yes we should be taxing the oil companies more ... but the state of the province is currently way ahead of Sask and the rest of Canada for that matter......

....just because Devine was corrupt doesen't mean all conservatives are the same....... just like we are seeing with the liberals in the sponshorship scandal.....

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Another Alberta Messa

Actually, Devine inherited a surplus. He left a large, hidden debt for the NDP, along with a large, unhidden one.

His policies were very close to Klein's. Privatisation of profitable crown corporations, kick-backs and graft to his corporate buddies, a deep hatred of poor people, a shirking of responsibility.

It has worked for Klein because of the oil money. Your province would be far richer if he would have gotten what the oil was worth though.

 

[cyberclark]

I have said for years that Alberta is closer to seperating than Quebec. Alberta and Quebec are like two peas in the pod in politics and Quebec seems to be happy to lead the charge with Alberta backing them up.

This provinces finance and history are in many ways closer to that of the US than Ontario. Yet Banks, head office Ontario are reluctant to support secondary industry in this provice.

Some where a icon has to show with a view to sorting out a lot of the things that push seperatisim. The issues are real how to fix them is extreme.

 

[cyberclark]

You are saying Alberta may get ripped off by the Feds but it's okay if the Multi Nationals pick up 75 percent of the revenue from the oil (after expences) and that is just fine?

I take the postion that if the Alberta Conservatives cannot deliver a better return to Albertans than the lowest royalities in the world then, it's up to Ottawa to step in and take some of the profits for the benefit of all Canadains.

Just think, the remaining 25% covers all the construction, legal, travel; all the costs real and unreal (inflated costs running wild) still remain on that 25%

These are huge bucks at play here and Albertans are not getting them. I don't understand where your paranoia comes from.

Oh, I am told by the oil comanies that about 8 percent of the 75 percent gets passed onto stock holders.

We are being paid token quiet money!

 

[TinMan]

I am disturbed at how Alberta has hijacked the word "West" and "Western" for their own purposes, does it make them appear bigger than they really are? I have lived in all 4 Western provinces and even the U.S. for 5 years and I'll admit to being a proud Canadian foremost. I currently live in Calgary and believe the views and opinions billowing out of Alberta do not resonate in Manitoba, B.C. or Central and Eastern Saskatchewan the "relics" of "Western Canada". It paints with a very broad brush to say they (with the loudest voice) are expressing the views and aspirations of the "West" in social, political or economic arenas. I'll admit Alberta is a different kind of place ....but not in such a good way. The predominant attitude here as I see it and is aptly demonstrated on all of these forums is selfishness. The "Heart of the New West" is all for promoting themselves and only themselves. Greed, arrogance and the pursuit of the dollar is parmount, a sense of community is virtually non-existant and the expression of socially ignorant views is hardily applauded. They claim to be "independent minded" but that really just means that they don't give a f*ck about their neighbors or anyone else for that matter. Is it any wonder they do not share a "sense of community" with the rest of Canada?

 

[the caracal kid]

well put tinman. what you have expressed is pretty much what i experienced in alberta.

 

[Gerald24]

Tinman did you lose some money in Oil stocks!

 

[Gerald24]

And believe me we do not speak on behalf of British Columbia, they can keep all the Welfare bums there.

 

[FiveParadox]

British Columbia

An interesting assertion, Gerald24; what do you mean by "welfare bums"?

On a related note, British Columbia is arguably one of the most progressive provinces, in terms of its economy and industry, in Canada; under our current Liberal Government of British Columbia, we could hardly be considered a "welfare" province — the Honourable Premier is not one of our most progressive in history, in terms of social and welfare programs.