Is it just me, or does anyone else think that politicians like Chirac use language the way other politicians use religion? That is to create the illusion that they are protecting something that all the evil people in the world would take away from "the little guy" if they weren't constantly on guard and watching for signs. I'm really not sure in this case that Chirac isn't just grandstanding to take some of the heat off of himself for the student demonstrations. The reaction in the media just helps drum up support for him in France, which is really all he wanted to accomplish in the first place. It becomes a "them against us" situation, which every world leader seems to like to create the illusion of. Unfortunately, this crowd psychology works too well on the masses.. look how many times Bush used it.
Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks English.
- Thread starter Blackleaf
- Start date
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli
But let's not blame English-speakers entirely. It's not English-speakers who require Quebec's students to learn English as a second language in school without alternatives. It's not Englsih=speakers who force Chinese students to leanr English from primary right through to university. It's not English-speakers who force 90% (and rising) of France's secondary school students to choose English.
Italy's got it right, and perhaps France, Quebec and China could learn from them how it's done:
http://www.bowks.net/worldlang/aux/b_MinPubInst.html
The "Rapport Grin" has likewise confirmed that France must change its language policy, suggesting the Italian model as a possible alternative. Yet this is not the first time France was advised of the threat of English under the current system, and how to solve it; yet France has always stood firm in defence of French for international communication.
So while the hegemony of the Englsih language concerns me, I still can't blame the English entirely for it since they're not the ones who have forced it onto the world. Ironically enough, the French, Quebec and Chiense governments force it u\onto themselves, and then complain about it. Italy, on the other hand, has taken active measures to which have successfully reduced the number of students learning English in its schools, and so feels no need to worry. Follow italy's example; instead of just sitting there complaining about it, do something to solve it, and then, like Italy, you won't need to worry about it anymore.
cortez said:
But let's not blame English-speakers entirely. It's not English-speakers who require Quebec's students to learn English as a second language in school without alternatives. It's not Englsih=speakers who force Chinese students to leanr English from primary right through to university. It's not English-speakers who force 90% (and rising) of France's secondary school students to choose English.
Italy's got it right, and perhaps France, Quebec and China could learn from them how it's done:
http://www.bowks.net/worldlang/aux/b_MinPubInst.html
The "Rapport Grin" has likewise confirmed that France must change its language policy, suggesting the Italian model as a possible alternative. Yet this is not the first time France was advised of the threat of English under the current system, and how to solve it; yet France has always stood firm in defence of French for international communication.
So while the hegemony of the Englsih language concerns me, I still can't blame the English entirely for it since they're not the ones who have forced it onto the world. Ironically enough, the French, Quebec and Chiense governments force it u\onto themselves, and then complain about it. Italy, on the other hand, has taken active measures to which have successfully reduced the number of students learning English in its schools, and so feels no need to worry. Follow italy's example; instead of just sitting there complaining about it, do something to solve it, and then, like Italy, you won't need to worry about it anymore.
It's ONLY A LANGUAGE.
There have been 10,000's of languages spoken over history.
THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL about the FRENCH language.
I don't care what language, if the act like the French towards their language then THEY ARE AORAGANT and RACISTS.
I am not being a RACIST. I think anyone who cares about keeping people separate by protecting ANY language so other can't communicate with them ARE RACISTS AND ALSO COWARDS, since they need to protect their turf against people better than them by holding on to something a frivous as a language.
BULLSHIT is what the whole protecting a language is. It serves to keep other people out and to separate a culture from others VERY MUCH LIKE APPARTHIDE and the NAZI AREANS and the WHITE SOUTH OF THE 60's.
You think I am racist for making sense. I am all for everyone understanding everyone else and the sooner the better.
I am not afraid of other people being better than me (lots of people are and good for them). I am not a coward like the French are and I can respect all cultures that respect other cultures. The French do NOT respect other cultures. They think theirs is better than everyone elses.
There have been 10,000's of languages spoken over history.
THERE IS NOTHING SPECIAL about the FRENCH language.
I don't care what language, if the act like the French towards their language then THEY ARE AORAGANT and RACISTS.
I am not being a RACIST. I think anyone who cares about keeping people separate by protecting ANY language so other can't communicate with them ARE RACISTS AND ALSO COWARDS, since they need to protect their turf against people better than them by holding on to something a frivous as a language.
BULLSHIT is what the whole protecting a language is. It serves to keep other people out and to separate a culture from others VERY MUCH LIKE APPARTHIDE and the NAZI AREANS and the WHITE SOUTH OF THE 60's.
You think I am racist for making sense. I am all for everyone understanding everyone else and the sooner the better.
I am not afraid of other people being better than me (lots of people are and good for them). I am not a coward like the French are and I can respect all cultures that respect other cultures. The French do NOT respect other cultures. They think theirs is better than everyone elses.
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli
this great union will survive and prosper despite their ups and downs
if you think this little tirade is significant in comparison to say GWs antics --- ya need to get those blinders off
chirac despite his -- tirade -- admittedly very childish on his part ---at least has a commmand of his native tongue unlike the leader of the english speaking world
god ---it must be difficult to be a translator trying to interpret Bushes mangled english grammar
hey--- pierre could you elp me please-- how do you say misunderestimate in francais.......
even the taliban know that misunderestimate isnt a real word
by 2020
the european union will include
- russia
- morocco
- tunisia
- egypt
in 2020-- the skilled diplomats of the JUST european union will be negotiating with the palestinians and isreal about both joining the union
if it is allowed to grow it is europe that will bring peace and security to the middle east
it will do so gradually
slowly but surely as it always has
it will convert war and hate into petty beurocratic squables and occasional street protests- riots---
come on have some vision!!!!
darkbeaver said:
this great union will survive and prosper despite their ups and downs
if you think this little tirade is significant in comparison to say GWs antics --- ya need to get those blinders off
chirac despite his -- tirade -- admittedly very childish on his part ---at least has a commmand of his native tongue unlike the leader of the english speaking world
god ---it must be difficult to be a translator trying to interpret Bushes mangled english grammar
hey--- pierre could you elp me please-- how do you say misunderestimate in francais.......
even the taliban know that misunderestimate isnt a real word
by 2020
the european union will include
- russia
- morocco
- tunisia
- egypt
in 2020-- the skilled diplomats of the JUST european union will be negotiating with the palestinians and isreal about both joining the union
if it is allowed to grow it is europe that will bring peace and security to the middle east
it will do so gradually
slowly but surely as it always has
it will convert war and hate into petty beurocratic squables and occasional street protests- riots---
come on have some vision!!!!
You people have no clue how well EU is doing.
Canada is falling so fast we will be the third world by 2020 and EU will be one country with everyone speaking English as the common language and their ancestral language will be their second language.
This is simply evolution of our global conscience that should righfully dispise the protectionists way of maintain superiority over others without merit. Replacing a fear over the color of skin with a fear of another cultures is just as racists as anything else. People can only be better than others based on their personal merit and not because of any birthright.
Everyone is equal at birth and its what they make of themselves that counts regardless of race, creed or culture.
Canada is falling so fast we will be the third world by 2020 and EU will be one country with everyone speaking English as the common language and their ancestral language will be their second language.
This is simply evolution of our global conscience that should righfully dispise the protectionists way of maintain superiority over others without merit. Replacing a fear over the color of skin with a fear of another cultures is just as racists as anything else. People can only be better than others based on their personal merit and not because of any birthright.
Everyone is equal at birth and its what they make of themselves that counts regardless of race, creed or culture.
Canada is going to be a third-world country by 2020?
Yeah, okay, whatever you say. I don't quite see how we are "falling," nevermind at the speed or severity with which you would seem to indicate, iamcanadian. As for the European Union becoming one country by the same, I seriously doubt that, at least judging by the inability of the body to adopt a common constitution; I am not saying that it could never happen, but not in the foreseeable future, in my opinion.
Yeah, okay, whatever you say. I don't quite see how we are "falling," nevermind at the speed or severity with which you would seem to indicate, iamcanadian. As for the European Union becoming one country by the same, I seriously doubt that, at least judging by the inability of the body to adopt a common constitution; I am not saying that it could never happen, but not in the foreseeable future, in my opinion.
RE: Angry Chirac leaves s
Canada will not be a third world country in 15 years.
Canada's economy is healthy, probably more so than America's right now.
Canada will not be a third world country in 15 years.
Canada's economy is healthy, probably more so than America's right now.
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves s
Thats what they used to say about Argentina back in the 60's when it was richer than Canada was at the time. By 1975 there where no riches left because of the runaway corruption in their Civil Services.
We have been on the fast track towards that end for the last five years or so with the Civil Services taking all power from our democratically elected representatives, much like what happened over there around that time.
Toro said:
Thats what they used to say about Argentina back in the 60's when it was richer than Canada was at the time. By 1975 there where no riches left because of the runaway corruption in their Civil Services.
We have been on the fast track towards that end for the last five years or so with the Civil Services taking all power from our democratically elected representatives, much like what happened over there around that time.
The Argentinian economy started to tank in the 1940s.
It wasn't the civil service that brought Argentina down. It was incompetent fiscal and economic mismanagement. Canada is a very well run country financially and economically. That wasn't always the case, however, as the policies of the 1970s, and the shift in the expectations of the electorate over the next few decades risked Canada's future.
You make a good point though, that we must follow sound policies or become like Argentina. I often use Argentina as an example that our prosperity can not be taken for granted, and that we must resist the siren call of populist, nationalistic, inward looking economic policies. That's why I spend so much time beatin' down the Lefties!
France has a better chance of declining than Canada, considering the French population's inability to accept the changes that are occurring in the world.
It wasn't the civil service that brought Argentina down. It was incompetent fiscal and economic mismanagement. Canada is a very well run country financially and economically. That wasn't always the case, however, as the policies of the 1970s, and the shift in the expectations of the electorate over the next few decades risked Canada's future.
You make a good point though, that we must follow sound policies or become like Argentina. I often use Argentina as an example that our prosperity can not be taken for granted, and that we must resist the siren call of populist, nationalistic, inward looking economic policies. That's why I spend so much time beatin' down the Lefties!
France has a better chance of declining than Canada, considering the French population's inability to accept the changes that are occurring in the world.
Toro said:
And who do you supposed to blame for the incompetence and mismanagement?
Canada is falling appart due to the corrupt management of our public money by our public servants in charge of spending it.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because they steal the money rather than spend it properly.
I think not said:
In defence of French speakers, not all of us think this way. But I agree, many do, and it just stinks of arrogance.
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli
You people have no clue how well EU is doing.
Canada is falling so fast we will be the third world by 2020 and EU will be one country with everyone speaking English as the common language and their ancestral language will be their second language.
If you should check the statistics, the percentage of high school students in Italy choosing English as their foreign language in school has been declining slowly but steadily since the Interministerial decree of 1993. So please explain furtehr how it will be that Europe will all be speaking English by 2020? I suppose Italy will just be the lone exception? Maybe, I suppose.
This is simply evolution of our global conscience that should righfully dispise the protectionists way of maintain superiority over others without merit. Replacing a fear over the color of skin with a fear of another cultures is just as racists as anything else. People can only be better than others based on their personal merit and not because of any birthright.
Language is not the same as skin colour. I can hire a black person over a white person any day. But if English is the dominant language, then obviously there will be cases in which a native English-speaking high school grad is at an advantage over a non-native-speaking Phd! This in fact happens in China on a regular basis, by the way. And in European science conferences likewise, it often boils down to the Brits talking to the rest, and the rest just trying to understand. So if that's your idea of equality, then you worry me.
Everyone is equal at birth and its what they make of themselves that counts regardless of race, creed or culture.
Not necessarily. I think you know just as much as everyone else that if your native language is Englsih, you have a BIG advantage over someone whose native language is Basque, let's say.
You people have no clue how well EU is doing.
Canada is falling so fast we will be the third world by 2020 and EU will be one country with everyone speaking English as the common language and their ancestral language will be their second language.
If you should check the statistics, the percentage of high school students in Italy choosing English as their foreign language in school has been declining slowly but steadily since the Interministerial decree of 1993. So please explain furtehr how it will be that Europe will all be speaking English by 2020? I suppose Italy will just be the lone exception? Maybe, I suppose.
This is simply evolution of our global conscience that should righfully dispise the protectionists way of maintain superiority over others without merit. Replacing a fear over the color of skin with a fear of another cultures is just as racists as anything else. People can only be better than others based on their personal merit and not because of any birthright.
Language is not the same as skin colour. I can hire a black person over a white person any day. But if English is the dominant language, then obviously there will be cases in which a native English-speaking high school grad is at an advantage over a non-native-speaking Phd! This in fact happens in China on a regular basis, by the way. And in European science conferences likewise, it often boils down to the Brits talking to the rest, and the rest just trying to understand. So if that's your idea of equality, then you worry me.
Everyone is equal at birth and its what they make of themselves that counts regardless of race, creed or culture.
Not necessarily. I think you know just as much as everyone else that if your native language is Englsih, you have a BIG advantage over someone whose native language is Basque, let's say.
iamcanadian said:
There's a difference between the civil service and the politicians in charge. The politicians are the ones that have usually gotten countries like Argentina in trouble, not the civil servants.
America is a melting pot. Each culture that gets assimilated adds some of its own culture to the mix. America is nothing like Britian and the cultures are completely foreign to each other.
American Culture, like it or not, is the dominant culture and I believe mainly because it has within it the freedom and flexibility to adapt and not be restrictive as other cultures.
Everyone can't have things their own way and all become one homogenious people across the planet (which us inevitable) as knowledge, education and things like the internet level the playing field of all cultures by showing no one is better than anyone else.
People who refuse to adapt and change will go the way of the dinosaurs by loosing out in advantages, and so they should for trying to remain isolated and special over everyone else.
People are just hunks of living meat, and no one is worth more than anyone else. It's what is in their minds and what they do with it that has any value to mankind.
Someday we may have some other cultures to deal with that are not of this planet. and this little vilage called Earth needs to be all on the same page and stop stepping on others thinking they are better than anyone else.
American Culture, like it or not, is the dominant culture and I believe mainly because it has within it the freedom and flexibility to adapt and not be restrictive as other cultures.
Everyone can't have things their own way and all become one homogenious people across the planet (which us inevitable) as knowledge, education and things like the internet level the playing field of all cultures by showing no one is better than anyone else.
People who refuse to adapt and change will go the way of the dinosaurs by loosing out in advantages, and so they should for trying to remain isolated and special over everyone else.
People are just hunks of living meat, and no one is worth more than anyone else. It's what is in their minds and what they do with it that has any value to mankind.
Someday we may have some other cultures to deal with that are not of this planet. and this little vilage called Earth needs to be all on the same page and stop stepping on others thinking they are better than anyone else.