An Angle Straight to Hell.

[Gordon J Torture]

Well then why dont you give me a few examples as to why? One or two are fine. Why does the Arab world have hate? Explain this to me

Finally, the knowledge I obtained having lived in a 95% muslim neighbourhood during such times of war, has finally paid off.

When will people learn that only the same two things, in various combinations, or each on it's own, inevitably lead to war.

1)Greed
2)Fear

Arabs and Muslims simply FEAR that their fundamental values and culture are targets of US and Israeli policies. Fear, along with contuning circumstances, lead to the desire for revenge and justice. The so called "Terrorists" believe they are fighting for justice and freedom, just as many Americans do, although they each see things from different cultural perpectives. They are made to look like monstors with no feelings who only attack the innocent etc. The trade towers for example were valid military targets.

Arabs beleive in individual freedoms in favor of their family and religious groupings, whereas, Americans value personal liberty. An American invasion, occupation and reconfiguration of a sovereign Arab country, (Iraq), only made matters worse.

Americans pay too much attention to legal rights of individuals within a formal democracy, while Arabs tend to measure life's rights and wrongs based on unspoken criteria of individuals or groups ensuring a sense they are being treated with honor and justice. Many Arabs do not believe in absolutes as much as Americans do. Arabs are infact less likely to be manipulated than Americans are despite all the hate propaganda they have been subjected to. Americans have been subjected to much more hate propaganda than any other nation, but theirs is just presented differently through a perfected system of manipulation. Even Adolf Hitler took note of, and admired the United States manipulation abilities and propaganda techniques.

 

[mattyaloo]

Re: RE: An Angle Straight to

You are ignoring the fact that Chretien was under a lot of pressure, including pressure from within his own party, to join the Coalition of the War Criminals. If he had joined up, he likely could have salvaged at least some sort of deal for Power Corp. Nobody really thought the US was going to lose the war, did they?

Chretien didn't do a lot right in his career as far as I'm concerned, and considering him to be on the left of the political spectrum is laughable (although the left of the Liberal Party is another matter). He was right about Iraq though.

Right about what? Not sending a military we don't have? Tough choice. You make a good point, though; He had to assume Power's old deal would be toast regardless of his decision.

But you have to admit your judgement about whether or not he was right is premature. This may yet prove to have been a big mistake in alienating the US (among many others a la Carolyn Parrish). The US will look South to mexico for economic friendship instead of North. Regardless of your opinion of the US, Canada stands to lose a lot if we continue to put ourselves outside of the circle of US allies. Much more so than does France or Germany.

Also, you cannot discount the very real possibility or even probability that the US's actions in the middle east may yet prove out to have been the right thing to do. They are looking at this in terms of a decade, not a year or two. In other words, the consequences of inaction will never be known so we can't say "Chretien did the right thing".

 

[I think not]

I ask you, did appeasement work against Hitler?

Who is talking appeasement??? Seems this too is part of the extremist non thinking modality. And why is the Hitler situation being brought up so frequently now..... as if there is some comparison .


hmmm. or is there?? Hitler was invading nations. The US is invading nations. Each had it's own propaganda to do that.

How far are you prepared to "appease" bush in his military actions before the momentum of such decisions get out of control??

........

IF the US is supposed to be the self appointed "world cop" ...then it better start following international laws. (which it doesn't ) So that negates the premise of "world cop" Military might is just braun. ( and without brains behind it, can be used any which way the US wants) In keeping with "world cop" , the US should learn how to be fair and JUST to all parties. It isn't.


the role that CA should play is along more neutral lines. BUT.....it should focus on rapid reponse teams to assist in areas of crisis. It should redefine it's military into a PEACE keeping and stabilizing focus. Peace keepers (well trained) can be sent into hot spots to assist in stabilizing the situation , until the crisis is over , and order is restored. A division of same might be set up to assist in many of the humanitarian crisis that exist on this planet.

This could evolve into a true CA identity. One that is CAPABLE, COMPETANT, and PEACE motivated. Problem solving is the focus then......not problem creating as war does.

Society must get out of the war /defensive mode of thinking and work towards more constructive resolution methods.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the US has never stayed anywhere after a war (except for the philippines), contrary to Hitler, hmmmm, and the Soviet Union, hmmmm, and Great Britain, hmmmm, and the ancient empires, in which many people like to associate the US with the Roman empire for example.

 

[The Philosopher]

Laws are only laws if they are binded by authority. America has the authority, so it stands that only the laws they agree to are binding.

 

[mattyaloo]

Well then why dont you give me a few examples as to why? One or two are fine. Why does the Arab world have hate? Explain this to me

Finally, the knowledge I obtained having lived in a 95% muslim neighbourhood during such times of war, has finally paid off.

When will people learn that only the same two things, in various combinations, or each on it's own, inevitably lead to war.

1)Greed
2)Fear

Arabs and Muslims simply FEAR that their fundamental values and culture are targets of US and Israeli policies. Fear, along with contuning circumstances, lead to the desire for revenge and justice. The so called "Terrorists" believe they are fighting for justice and freedom, just as many Americans do, although they each see things from different cultural perpectives. They are made to look like monstors with no feelings who only attack the innocent etc. The trade towers for example were valid military targets.

Arabs beleive in individual freedoms in favor of their family and religious groupings, whereas, Americans value personal liberty. An American invasion, occupation and reconfiguration of a sovereign Arab country, (Iraq), only made matters worse.

Americans pay too much attention to legal rights of individuals within a formal democracy, while Arabs tend to measure life's rights and wrongs based on unspoken criteria of individuals or groups ensuring a sense they are being treated with honor and justice. Many Arabs do not believe in absolutes as much as Americans do. Arabs are infact less likely to be manipulated than Americans are despite all the hate propaganda they have been subjected to. Americans have been subjected to much more hate propaganda than any other nation, but theirs is just presented differently through a perfected system of manipulation. Even Adolf Hitler took note of, and admired the United States manipulation abilities and propaganda techniques.

You are failing to make the distinction between islamic extremists and average muslims. We are (well, not Canada) at war with Muslim extremists, not the everyday muslim citizens. Granted, this is a very difficult war to wage because the cowardly enemy won't identify itself with uniforms, so many muslim civilians end up getting hurt as a result. This makes the situation in Iraq and elsewhere complex. But I repeat: this is a war against extremists who want YOU and Me to DIE!!! Seriously. It sounds absurd, but it is how they think. And for the record, my deepest admiration goes out to the Liberal Party of Canada, the ultimate propaganda machine. Who else could lie, cheat and steal, get caught and still get eleted by Ontario? lol.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: An Angle Straight to

The US has no authority at all, Phil. What they have is a leadership who thinks killing for money is okay. That is not authority.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

Laws are only laws if they are binded by authority. America has the authority, so it stands that only the laws they agree to are binding.

Exactly, Americans feel they are invincible, so they simply do whatever they want internationally. This creates massive global paranoia, fear, and a sense of revenge that inevitably comes back to bite them in the ass.

 

[mattyaloo]

I ask you, did appeasement work against Hitler?

Who is talking appeasement??? Seems this too is part of the extremist non thinking modality. And why is the Hitler situation being brought up so frequently now..... as if there is some comparison .


hmmm. or is there?? Hitler was invading nations. The US is invading nations. Each had it's own propaganda to do that.

How far are you prepared to "appease" bush in his military actions before the momentum of such decisions get out of control??

........

IF the US is supposed to be the self appointed "world cop" ...then it better start following international laws. (which it doesn't ) So that negates the premise of "world cop" Military might is just braun. ( and without brains behind it, can be used any which way the US wants) In keeping with "world cop" , the US should learn how to be fair and JUST to all parties. It isn't.


the role that CA should play is along more neutral lines. BUT.....it should focus on rapid reponse teams to assist in areas of crisis. It should redefine it's military into a PEACE keeping and stabilizing focus. Peace keepers (well trained) can be sent into hot spots to assist in stabilizing the situation , until the crisis is over , and order is restored. A division of same might be set up to assist in many of the humanitarian crisis that exist on this planet.

This could evolve into a true CA identity. One that is CAPABLE, COMPETANT, and PEACE motivated. Problem solving is the focus then......not problem creating as war does.

Society must get out of the war /defensive mode of thinking and work towards more constructive resolution methods.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the US has never stayed anywhere after a war (except for the philippines), contrary to Hitler, hmmmm, and the Soviet Union, hmmmm, and Great Britain, hmmmm, and the ancient empires, in which many people like to associate the US with the Roman empire for example.

More importantly, there really is no international law anymore. Think about it. The only international law is made up by the UN. What is the UN without the force to back it (ie. the US). The UN is becoming the same irrelevant joke that the league of nations was. Saddam Hussein signed a treaty in 1993 I believe to end the Gulf War. He agreed to a number of UN sanctions including weapons inspections, to which he did not comply. What do most societies do when someone doesn't obey the law? They move in with the police. Well the UN waited TEN YEARS without doing a damn thing! So the USA took upon itself to enforce the sanctions APPLIED BY THE UN. In other words, the US IS the UN, or as I said before, the world's policeman. As far as PEACEKEEPING is concerned, don't make me laugh. Our soldiers needed a RIDE over to afghanistan. Besides, how do you propose Canada "peacekeep" with al qaeda and Saddam, who refused to listen to the UN in the first place?

 

[mattyaloo]

Laws are only laws if they are binded by authority. America has the authority, so it stands that only the laws they agree to are binding.

Exactly, Americans feel they are invincible, so they simply do whatever they want internationally. This creates massive global paranoia, fear, and a sense of revenge that inevitably comes back to bite them in the ass.

I am not paranoid about the USA, I am paranoid about North Korea, China and Al Qaeda. Tell me, honestly, who scares you more. I'll give you a hint: you will be killed by the leaders of all but one of the above countries if, as a citizen of that country (or group), you give the wrong answer.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

Who else could lie, cheat and steal, get caught and still get eleted

Republicans.

You are failing to make the distinction between islamic extremists and average muslims...

That's because the distinction is a very thin line. Most of the Muslims I have talked to and befriended in my years here, will not go around advertising they agree with the terrorists. They will simply point out parts of the Koran that say what happened was not justified. When you get to them personally however, it is a WHOLE different story. Most of the Muslims I have met, do not have nearly the resentment toward the 911 attackers that Christain Americans and many Canadians have. Muslims do not all think of the terrorists as "hero's" by any means, but they certainly do not ever refer to them as "cowards". Most Muslims know exactly why they did what they did, and they too feel the same increasing fear that caused it all.

Thus, this "distinction" you are looking for is simply a matter of circumstances a particular Islamic individual may have been subjected to causing more fear. Who was the ultimate cause of these circumstances? ... The good ol USA.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Tell me, honestly, who scares you more.

George Bush's Amerika.

 

[no1important]

RE: An Angle Straight to

George Bush scares me more than anyone. These other countries are building up weapon stocks out of fear they will be next on "W's" so called war on terror.

If "W" is stupid to go into any other country there will be 1000 fold increase in US soldiers death's. Is that worth it? Iraq was lame, no viable military to fight back (yet america can't win the war, like they could not win Vietnam) but China, North Korea, Iran etc do.

 

[mattyaloo]

My God, some people really have been indoctrinated. Unbelievable. China still kills its own citizens for publicly speaking out against the government, North Korea is the same, China is 5-7 times larger than the US, Al Qaeda, don't even get me started, and you are afraid of the US? AWWWW...poor little ol' China and North Korea, just building up Nukes to defend against the big bad USA. Yea, what has the USA done, removed a dictator that gassed his own citizens to death and shot women in the back of the head in soccer stadiums for adultery. Oh yea, and the Taliban, there's another "victim" of the USA, those horrible imperialists spreading -- oh my god -- DEMOCRACY to the middle east. WHAT A CRIME. Look out from left field, buddy, but if we're not careful we could end up living in YOUR land of the free: China. Wierd take on the world, my friend. Very wierd.

 

[mattyaloo]

Tell me, honestly, who scares you more.

George Bush's Amerika.

Yes, I hate free societies with boundless democracy and personal liberty too. Rah Rah dictatorships.

 

[mattyaloo]

Who else could lie, cheat and steal, get caught and still get eleted

Republicans.

You are failing to make the distinction between islamic extremists and average muslims...

That's because the distinction is a very thin line. Most of the Muslims I have talked to and befriended in my years here, will not go around advertising they agree with the terrorists. They will simply point out parts of the Koran that say what happened was not justified. When you get to them personally however, it is a WHOLE different story. Most of the Muslims I have met, do not have nearly the resentment toward the 911 attackers that Christain Americans and many Canadians have. Muslims do not all think of the terrorists as "hero's" by any means, but they certainly do not ever refer to them as "cowards". Most Muslims know exactly why they did what they did, and they too feel the same increasing fear that caused it all.

Thus, this "distinction" you are looking for is simply a matter of circumstances a particular Islamic individual may have been subjected to causing more fear. Who was the ultimate cause of these circumstances? ... The good ol USA.

So basically members of the world's second biggest religion largely sympathizes with the Terrorists who killed 3500 innocent people working to provide for their families at the world trade centre? Now THAT is a scary thought.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

Tell me, honestly, who scares you more

Bush concerns me much more.

 

[mattyaloo]

Tell me, honestly, who scares you more

Bush concerns me much more.

I suppose the idea of removing another ruthless dictator and bringing him before a court of law is a little concerning (sarcasm). We all know how much Canadians luv the status quo.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

So basically members of the world's second biggest religion largely sympathizes with the Terrorists who killed 3500 innocent people working to provide for their families at the world trade centre?

It is not the "Terrorists" that placed those people inside such a massive and obvious Millitary target.

Want to know what placed them there? GREED.

Other than fire fighters, cops etc, how many low income blistered handed, hard working, broken backed innocent people were really in there? .. not a high percentage I assure you that.

 

[mattyaloo]

So basically members of the world's second biggest religion largely sympathizes with the Terrorists who killed 3500 innocent people working to provide for their families at the world trade centre?

It is not the "Terrorists" that placed those people inside such a massive and obvious Millitary target.

The world trade center is a place of COMMERCE...ie business. Military target implies there is some MILITARY function of the target. Your lack off sensitivity is truly telling.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

The world trade center is a place of COMMERCE...ie business. Military target implies there is some MILITARY function of the target. Your lack off sensitivity is truly telling.

Hey, I got the perfect plan, why don't you turn the Pentagon into a townhouse complex full of women and children. That way, when an ememy tries to attack a valid millitary target, you can really play out the sympathy card.

But I guess what your saying is the United States of America was attacking non-military targets intenionally in Germany during WWII?