America's bail out

[Ron in Regina]

That's a good idea- Although the banks would whine because they would have to be accountable to the average joe/jane

GOOD!!! They should be doing some whining (to their pillows), but if
they want taxdollars to save their necks, that's the minimum price that
they should pay. This would be a beginning...

 

[B00Mer]

Your poll doesn't make much sense saying they are George W Bush's buddies on wall st...

Look, they claim this will stop a recession.. maybe so.

But I think it will just slow down a pending recession allowing for "certain" people to get out without losing their shirt.

As far as the rest of your comment.. yeah the democrats are totally responsible for this and Clinton.

If Clinton had not repealed the Glass-Steagal Act in 1999 that was put in place right after the Great Depression to protect taxpayers and investors... non of this bull **** would be happening.

If Clinton took that **** when he had the chance to kill Obama, then 9/11 would not have happen..

.

 

[Albertabound]

This "Bail-Out" can't happen without collateral.

The bank wouldn't (OK, shouldn't) hand out
its $$$ without some kind of securities. If the taxpayers have to pony up the cash, then the
taxpayers should ALL become shareholders in all of these banks and companies being
bailed out. The banks and other companies can buy back shares at fair market value IF the
American taxpayers are willing to sell them at a future and more stable time. I'm not talking
about the Government becoming a big shareholder in these many companies, but the actual
taxpayers...with papered (tradable) stocks. It's the taxpayers money, not the Governments.

What a fantastic idea. Now tell me why someone in politics .....the people who are supposed to be representing you and I .......can not come up with such a thought. Tell your elected politician that and see what happens......nothing. Our politicians do not represent any one but themselves.

 

[darkbeaver]

The bailout will make rule by the corporation the law of the land right in front of our eyes. They'd poison us just as fast. Paulson and the fed will be given the power of direct taxation. The next CEO of The United Corporations of Amwayica will be elected by the board in November.Halalouja Bankers can go to heaven.:lol:

 

[Ron in Regina]

This "Bail-Out" can't happen without collateral. The bank wouldn't (OK, shouldn't) hand out
its $$$ without some kind of securities. If the taxpayers have to pony up the cash, then the
taxpayers should ALL become shareholders in all of these banks and companies being
bailed out. The banks and other companies can buy back shares at fair market value IF the
American taxpayers are willing to sell them at a future and more stable time. I'm not talking
about the Government becoming a big shareholder in these many companies, but the actual
taxpayers...with papered (tradable) stocks. It's the taxpayers money, not the Governments.

What is currently being proposed is pure insanity. Zero collateral = Zero deal.

I'm just an average blue collar Joe. All I can do is to offer up common sense solutions
(as I see them) to real world problems, and maybe someone will run with it, but probably
not. It at least hopefully gets the conversation from whining to problem solving. Ya' just
never know.

 

[Scott Free]

America's bail out..

How many agree with the bail out here... or disagree?

What's your reason for either or..??

The bailout is a way for wallstreet to "externalize" their losses onto main street. It is a very poor move that will only deepen and prolong the inevitable fallout. The extra capital generated is likely to seek safe havens over seas while it is still valuable and, as a result, the extra liquidity isn't going to have much long term impact on the US. This move is best for China and I can't help but wonder if they (China) didn't play a larger role in this policy than the White House has let on.

 

[darkbeaver]

This "Bail-Out" can't happen without collateral. The bank wouldn't (OK, shouldn't) hand out
its $$$ without some kind of securities. If the taxpayers have to pony up the cash, then the
taxpayers should ALL become shareholders in all of these banks and companies being
bailed out. The banks and other companies can buy back shares at fair market value IF the
American taxpayers are willing to sell them at a future and more stable time. I'm not talking
about the Government becoming a big shareholder in these many companies, but the actual
taxpayers...with papered (tradable) stocks. It's the taxpayers money, not the Governments.

What is currently being proposed is pure insanity. Zero collateral = Zero deal.

That's worthless ain't it, there isn't going to be a recovery, just a looting of the treasury.

 

[tracy]

Why do people make it seem like ordinary Americans are victims of this mess? They are the cause of it too. They chose to accept easy credit and shady loans then defaulted in record numbers. I'm as annoyed by them as I am by the bankers.

 

[darkbeaver]

The bailout is a way for wallstreet to "externalize" their losses onto main street. It is a very poor move that will only deepen and prolong the inevitable fallout. The extra capital generated is likely to seek safe havens over seas while it is still valuable and, as a result, the extra liquidity isn't going to have much long term impact on the US. This move is best for China and I can't help but wonder if they (China) didn't play a larger role in this policy than the White House has let on.

It's just good business eh. No hard feelings but we're moving to China where they know how to treat inovative financial capitalist. China owns Disney World now, I suppose they'll move it to China.:smile:

 

[Avro]

Look, they claim this will stop a recession.. maybe so.

But I think it will just slow down a pending recession allowing for "certain" people to get out without losing their shirt.

As far as the rest of your comment.. yeah the democrats are totally responsible for this and Clinton.

If Clinton had not repealed the Glass-Steagal Act in 1999 that was put in place right after the Great Depression to protect taxpayers and investors... non of this bull **** would be happening.

If Clinton took that **** when he had the chance to kill Obama, then 9/11 would not have happen..

.

Do you mean the repeal that was a bipartisan one that was brought forth by Phil Gramm (R-TX) and James leach (R-IA)?

Not mention the bill was veto proof, Bill had to sign it.

Ouch.....:lol:

Kill Obama?

Wow, you are an idiot.:roll:

 

[Scott Free]

It's just good business eh. No hard feelings but we're moving to China where they know how to treat inovative financial capitalist. China owns Disney World now, I suppose they'll move it to China.:smile:

The problem is that China socializes business. Their largest corporation is state owned and is swallowing up industries all over the place. It reminds me of a way-chi game - surround and devour. The whole point of letting business operate in China is that then they have been surrounded (in the game territory is captured by surrounding your enemy). Basically we're playing right into their hands.

So for now China may have the best strategy but once all the stones are taken (pieces in the way-chi game) that strategy will no longer work. The benefit we see now is derived from the movement of capitol in the game itself. It isn't being generated by business and when the game is over we will see that, once again, socialism doesn't work.

 

[karrie]

Why do people make it seem like ordinary Americans are victims of this mess? They are the cause of it too. They chose to accept easy credit and shady loans then defaulted in record numbers. I'm as annoyed by them as I am by the bankers.

That's an interesting take on it Tracy. And you're right... a citizenry that's conditioned itself to live in debt needs to take some accountability. It's a bit of a snake eating its tail scenario.

 

[darkbeaver]

Why do people make it seem like ordinary Americans are victims of this mess? They are the cause of it too. They chose to accept easy credit and shady loans then defaulted in record numbers. I'm as annoyed by them as I am by the bankers.

Ordinary Americans ain't got any money, they do not have the wealth of thier land. Blameing them is easy but profitless, the wealthy must hang. Your on the fence there tracy. If you follow the obscene profits of the wealthy you will find all that's missing from American life.

 

[darkbeaver]

That's an interesting take on it Tracy. And you're right... a citizenry that's conditioned itself to live in debt needs to take some accountability. It's a bit of a snake eating its tail scenario.

It will make a full accounting in due time as it always has without fail.

 

[B00Mer]

Do you mean the repeal that was a bipartisan one that was brought forth by Phil Gramm (R-TX) and James leach (R-IA)?

Not mention the bill was veto proof, Bill had to sign it.

Ouch.....:lol:

Kill Obama?

Wow, you are an idiot.:roll:

oops ment Osama.. I guess the only real difference between Obama and Osama is B.S. :lol:

 

[Avro]

oops ment Osama.. I guess the only real difference between Obama and Osama is B.S. :lol:

Wow, you sure got owned without much of a fight.:lol:

Typical con pussy.:roll:

Run along now wittle troll.:lol:

 

[B00Mer]

Wow, you sure got owned without much of a fight.:lol:

Typical con pussy.:roll:

Run along now wittle troll.:lol:

Say, I'm not finished with my reply... just have to many windows open.. watching FoxNews, playing www.ikariam.org and posting here... come on - I will reply proper to your post later.

I am just shocked that the bail out took 2 steps back. Glad mind you, very happy.

The meeting "ENDED BAD, REAL BAD."

 

[Kreskin]

Why do people make it seem like ordinary Americans are victims of this mess? They are the cause of it too. They chose to accept easy credit and shady loans then defaulted in record numbers. I'm as annoyed by them as I am by the bankers.

I have worked in the financial services industry for 22 years. I understand what you're saying. There are many who can blame themselves for their own mess but there are also many who get screwed innocently for any number of reasons. The ordinary person doesn't expect a housing market collapse when things are going well. The average person needs to be educated on what they do. If the person in front of them with the knowledge doesn't provide any common sense advice then this will happen every time. Most people don't realize that if their mortgage rate goes from 4% to 6% their actual mortgage payment will go up about 25%. Financial institutions in Canada have a fiduciary responsibility not to lend people into jeopardy because those institutions know how much stuff can get out of hand. For example, when doing an investment mortgage the lender should qualify a person by showing their payments increasing by 25% and their rental income dropping by 5-10% because that's the kind of stuff that happens and the banks know it. They need to educate the people in front of them. If the client can't service that on paper then they need to have other assets or potential income sources for plan B. If the client then understands the risks and still goes ahead, well that's the price to pay. But this present situation sounds more like salesmanship by financers than responsible lending.

There are definitely people who need to take the blame for their own situations. There are also a lot who've been taken to the cleaners by salespeople working on behalf of large institutions.

 

[Ron in Regina]

I have worked in the financial services industry for 22 years. I understand what you're saying. There are many who can blame themselves for their own mess but there are also many who get screwed innocently for any number of reasons. The ordinary person doesn't expect a housing market collapse when things are going well. The average person needs to be educated on what they do. If the person in front of them with the knowledge doesn't provide any common sense advice then this will happen every time. Most people don't realize that if their mortgage rate goes from 4% to 6% their actual mortgage payment will go up about 25%. Financial institutions in Canada have a fiduciary responsibility not to lend people into jeopardy because those institutions know how much stuff can get out of hand. For example, when doing an investment mortgage the lender should qualify a person by showing their payments increasing by 25% and their rental income dropping by 5-10% because that's the kind of stuff that happens and the banks know it. They need to educate the people in front of them. If the client can't service that on paper then they need to have other assets or potential income sources for plan B. If the client then understands the risks and still goes ahead, well that's the price to pay. But this present situation sounds more like salesmanship by financers than responsible lending.

There are definitely people who need to take the blame for their own situations. There are also a lot who've been taken to the cleaners by salespeople working on behalf of large institutions.

Kreskin, bowing to your two+ decades in the financial services industry...do you see this
current situation that is all doom and gloom, being looked at as a substantial blip on the
radar, but just one of half a dozen or so in the last hundred years??? Is this one truly
different than the others???

I'll be the first to admit that I do not have the knowledge base or experience to make a
judgment call here, but I did watch President Bush make his speech last night and it did
not inspire any confidence from me, and I'm not even an American. Their economy is in
an ugly spot, but is this being blown out of proportion compared to the last 6-7 major
"blips" on the economic radar in the last 100 years or so???

 

[Kreskin]

Kreskin, bowing to your two+ decades in the financial services industry...do you see this
current situation that is all doom and gloom, being looked at as a substantial blip on the
radar, but just one of half a dozen or so in the last hundred years??? Is this one truly
different than the others???

I'll be the first to admit that I do not have the knowledge base or experience to make a
judgment call here, but I did watch President Bush make his speech last night and it did
not inspire any confidence from me, and I'm not even an American. Their economy is in
an ugly spot, but is this being blown out of proportion compared to the last 6-7 major
"blips" on the economic radar in the last 100 years or so???

Ron, I don't want to pretend to know where the economics of this going because I'm not an economist. My work is primarily financial planning, i.e. estate and retirement planning. The credit crunch is certainly a significant economic risk. This is definitely the most publicized and politicized financial downturn I've seen. Each crisis has a different foundation for its cause. This one is quite serious. But lets not forget that these are the kind of times when the real money is made. It isn't made at the top of a bull market.

I received the following email the other day. It's not really about the global economy but parallels can be drawn. Nothing is forever by nature.

Of Fires That Burn Out

On October 17, those who can even remember it will mark the twentieth
anniversary of the day the great Yellowstone fire was contained.

The summer of 1988 would turn out to be Yellowstone National Park's
driest in recorded history. But there was no way of knowing that in
advance, as seasonal, lightning-sparked fires broke out in May, and
burned into June. More storms in July brought more lightning; the fires
spread and intensified.

Still, it wasn't until late July - when some four thousand people had to
be evacuated from Grant Village, a collection of lodges, restaurants and
a visitor center - that the nation's attention became riveted on
Yellowstone. Hundreds of reporters descended on the park, as more than
25,000 firefighters fought the spreading blazes.

On August 20, which came to be known as Black Saturday, winds of up to
eighty miles per hour doubled the size of the fire to 750 square miles,
and on September 7 the historic Old Faithful Inn had to be evacuated.
(It was saved essentially by a sprinkler system installed just the prior
year.) Four days later the rains came, and by October 17, the fires were
under control. In all, 1,875 square miles burned out - something like a
third of the park -- in what was universally regarded as an ecological
disaster of epic proportions, perhaps the greatest in American history.

No fewer than three separate Congressional hearings were held to review
fire management policies at Yellowstone and on other public lands, and
the National Park Service was pilloried for an alleged "let it burn"
strategy - a policy it had in fact never maintained.

Today, as the leaves begin to turn again in Yellowstone, you will find
it a renewed paradise. Trees have taken root everywhere among the burnt
logs that litter the forest floor. The fires, it seems, cleared out the
overgrown forest canopies, allowing new plants to bloom. Bird and animal
life flourishes. And people who know and love the park say that it's
greener than they've ever seen it. The fires weren't an ecological
disaster at all; they were nature's way of cleaning out and renewing one
of the most beautiful places in America.

This autumn, we find ourselves in the later stages of a great credit
conflagration. Hordes of catastrophists on cable and the Internet decry
an unprecedented disaster burning out of control and engulfing one great
financial institution after another. In their view, the fire is beyond
the capacity of nature and man, is constantly getting worse, and will
surely end in the long-term destruction of the financial system.

It will do nothing of the kind, any more than the Yellowstone fire of
1988 did. Nothing that is occurring today is unprecedented - though it
may be happening on a larger scale - and nothing is unnatural. This is
nature's way of cleaning out the rot. And it will lead to a healthy
renewal of the global financial system in ways that today's doomsayers
cannot even imagine.

Between 2000 and 2002, the world unwound the greatest equity market
bubble of all time. Last year and this, we have been unwinding the
greatest credit bubble of all time. These are horrific processes as one
goes through them, but it is useful to remember that they burn out -
that the rains do come again, even after the driest summer, and that, as
John Kennedy said, no human problem is beyond the capacity of human
beings.

While waiting for the rains, it will be useful to ask oneself: if this
is an unprecedented long-term destruction of the financial system, why
does the equity market refuse to burn down?

From its false dawn last October, the broad equity market declined about
24% peak-to-trough through the close on September 15, 2008. A 24%
decline over nearly a year is hardly a walk in the (national) park, but
neither is it an indicator of Armageddon. Indeed, the October before the
great Yellowstone conflagration, the equity market went down nearly that
much between a sunup and a sunset. (This event, too, sparked any number
of equally spurious Congressional investigations, to equally negligible
effect.) But as the leaves turn yet again - even in this season of
despair - the equity market stands nearly five times higher than it did
that evening.

Perhaps it's time to turn the television off, and to make a weekend of
it in Yellowstone. At the very least, this exercise might restore some
very important long-term perspective.

But be sure to pack your slicker and boots. The rains are coming.