'America' vs. USA

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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www.contactcorp.net
That idea of standardizing a language actually
has an examply in Deutschland.

In fact recent headlines about the German Reform
movement to standardize the German language
is going back and forth between the old way of
combining words or the new way of separating them.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: 'America' vs. USA

jimmoyer said:
That idea of standardizing a language actually
has an examply in Deutschland.

In fact recent headlines about the German Reform
movement to standardize the German language
is going back and forth between the old way of
combining words or the new way of separating them.

It has to do with culture. In some cultures, language is viewed as a tool, a technology if you will, of which man is in full control, capable of manipulating it as needs be to achieve a desired purpose. In otehr cultures, on the other hand, language has a sacred quality to it, never to be touched and to be preserved for the sake of tradition, nothing more, no matter how logical an argument might be. And yet in otehr cultures, the two converge.

To take a few examples of cultures in which man is in full or relatively full control of his language, let us look at French, Indonesian, Turkish and Chinese. French has the French Accademy, whose purpose it is to keep the language "pure" so as to maintain its internal logic as much as possible. But even French has a traditionalist streak in terms of preserving its fundamental grammar. but the Accademy does even have legal and authoritative power to decide to replace a word or introduce a new word independantly of popularity, with French schools being required to teach it. Indonesian was based on an Indonesian Pidgin and then adppted, developped, applied and officialized by the government to unite the nation. The government continues to control the evolution of the language quite stringently till today, just as does the French Accademy. Attatuk and the PRC both changed or modified the traditional scripts of their languages for the purpose of increasing literacy among the population at lower cost to the educaiton system. China has also adopted a policy of standardizing and promoting one particular chosen dialct, along with pronunciation, throughout its school system so as to ensure a common language for a modern nation. A good reflection of this is the fact that students learn a standardized Pinyin right from the beginning so as to ensure a common standard pronunciation nationwide. That would be equivalent to English students learning to read the IPA before the alphabet.

English would be an example of the latter, where in that culture, "mice", as illogical as it is, would be defended to the last purely out of a sense of sacredness to the language. this same sense of sacredness in English culture prevents agreement on a standard spelling for "colour", or the acceptance or dropping of the pronunciation "f" in the word lieutenant, or builded instead of built (even though that one is a little ironic seeing that the King James Bible does in fact use the word "builded", so perhaps it would be important to mention that that sense of sacredness stems more from contemporary habbit than it does from historical reality, or a view that language somehow evolves "mysteriously" beyond human control as opposed to through active, consientious human intervention).

Now of course I'm sure all these languages have streaks of the others too. Just as English will accept conscious intervention sometimes (as when the Canadian journalists' Association switched from Peking to Beijing a few decades ago through a conscientious and systematic strategy (they would use Peking followed by "Beijing" in quotes so as to accustom the population to the change gradually), so some Indonesians are likewise resistant to some afficially sanctionned changes to the language by the Indonesian government.

German, traditionally, was more like English. It had gone through some changes with the invention of the printing presses, but not much more before or after. Rather like Englihs, allowed to evolve freely and at will. The shift from "sacredness" to "ownership" of the language is a little more recent for German culture. Needless to say, Esperanto speakers would tend to have much more "ownership" of language in that we even recognise the possibility of creating a whole new language from scratch.

Effectively, for any kind of English Language Accademy or equivalent to be born any time soon, a shift would first need to occur in the culture from "sacredness" to "ownership" of the language, sufficient enough for the English-speaking world to be prepared to accept systematic modifications done to the language, be it spelling or what have you, by some authoritative body.

I'll admit that since I was raised in an English environment, even I tend to take on a more "sacred" view of the English language and so tend to naturally resist change to it. When speaking in Esperanto, on the otehr hand, sinse that culture is much more in control of its language, I'm even open to creating new words as I'm speaking, through the use of already existant morphemes. And even in French, I tend to naturally acknowledge and recognise teh authority of the Accademy Francaise over the development of the language. Esperanto also has an accademy, but it only deals with recognising correct grammar and morphese. beyond that, words can be put together at will.

So certainly, an English Accademy could occur, only should a shift occer in the culture of the language first.
 

jimshort19

Electoral Member
Nov 24, 2007
476
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Zurich
No, it does not bother me at all.

Naci, "These students were bright and knowledgeable about global affairs,"

Clearly not.

You are having a nervous breakdown.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
I can't believe this old topic has surfaced yet again and Naci if you ever read this again - you might be pleased the fussing continues

I rarely refer to the people where I live as Americans. Why? Because as you say there are many Americans - and the phrase has been perpetuated by the people of the British Empire if you are looking to place blame. We have in the south 48th states been dubbed "Americans" by the Aussies, the Brits, the Kiwis - and it is a term of affectation as they love to cut to the chase in their nomenclature. I personally refer to where I live as the US or the States.

If it is important to you - take it up with those nations - not the people of the United States - many of them aren't "Americans" anyway - but immigrants from other lands... yet are happy to be called American or whatever the current names are as they waited long years and fought hard to secure a place in the nation, and I doubt if it matters to them at all.

Perhaps it is just another issue of something the people in the U.S. are going to be given by whoever has the need and desire. If you are still dissatisfied - take it up with the descendents of Amerigo Vespucci (probably all at home in Italy).
 
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jjaycee98

Electoral Member
Jan 27, 2006
421
4
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British Columbia
Hmmmm

First of all,

A lap is not a length. A lap is a movement once around a course. A length is just that a single traverse of the length of a track or a field.

North America is the continent. The continent contains several countries, Canada, the United States, and Mexico.

The citizens of the U.S. can call themselve whatever they want but the citizens of all three countries are "Americans".

So maybe a movement to refer to people of the US as just that. Quit referring to them as "Americans" Call them US residents, or United States peoples, anything that says where they live in "America". Just another PC effort IMO. Others have worked and have changed opinions.