Alberta

[DurkaDurka]

Not really. If we turned the tap off we could expect exactly that. There is no evidence to suggest they would accept our right to do so. They take oil very seriously and a Canadian invasion for such a reason is supported in their constitution. Since they don't follow international law anymore and we are about as protected as a fat rabbit, there really is no reason to think they wouldn't invade.

and why the hell would Alberta turn off the tap? All these fantastical what-if's scenarios are ridiculous.

 

[Scott Free]

and why the hell would Alberta turn off the tap? All these fantastical what-if's scenarios are ridiculous.

If Alberta can't turn the tap off it means they can't negotiate. Alberta must sell it's oil to the USA or face invasion. So the threat is real and Alberta is facing unfair market pressures as a result. If you examine NAFTA you will see the USA has us over a barrel (pun intended).

 

[karrie]

The smart move for Alberta would be to start using its petro royalties to invest in alternative energies and reduce our own reliance on oil. Be ready to wean ourselves off oil while we sell it to the rest of the world at a premium, taps wide open.

 

[dancing-loon]

For Faithless:

"Alberta's internationally recognised "tar sand" reserves are now put at the equivalent of more than 175 billion barrels of crude oil.
....
This first step of tar sand extraction is estimated to result in gasoline that carries a burden of "at least five times more carbon dioxide" then would conventional "sweet crude" oil production.
Because the remaining 80 percent of the sands are too deep to be mined, steam is injected into these deeper oil sands, loosening the bitumen and allowing producers to draw it upward, as indicated in the graphic. The process was known as "steam-assisted gravity drainage." It is said to be more efficient than the "truck and steam" process.
Although producers recycle much of their water, about one barrel of water is lost for every barrel of oil culled.
Developers are required to restore oil sand mining sites to at least the equivalent of their previous biological productivity, which involves revegetation and drainage restoration. None of this has yet been done on a large scale, however.

It may be decades before large scale production becomes a commercial realilty. Huge amounts of infrastructure will have to be added in the midst of a wilderness setting. And, of course, the trees have a stake: according to the Pembina website ""The proposed tar sand developments will tear a hole in Canada's lungs - our vital boreal forest ecosystem..

If Canada has North America's lungs, auto owners in US are it's mouth, gobbling supersize meal after oil meal to keep the wheels rolling, which keeps the trucks driving and steam flowing underground. Reducing our gasoline consumption sounds like the best thing we can do to protect the Arboreal Forests of the northcountry.

Be sure to look at the link for an excellent drawing of the oil extraction procedures.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/01/alberta_tar_san.php
-------------------------------------------
I lay me down now and cry!!!:---(

 

[Scott Free]

The smart move for Alberta would be to start using its petro royalties to invest in alternative energies and reduce our own reliance on oil. Be ready to wean ourselves off oil while we sell it to the rest of the world at a premium, taps wide open.

I agree. As the Americans continue on their rampage it's conceivable they will need all our oil to carry out their imperialist dreams and under NAFTA we must supply them. It is easy to imagine the day that we can't afford our own oil. Already in BC there is talk of rolling blackouts because we don't have enough electricity to supply ourselves and the USA - so we lose.

 

[Lester]

time

Frankly, I don't know how they figured they could mine it and restore it and still have it be feasible. PeaceRiver and Cold Lake seem to be doing better at it though than the Wabasca and Athabasca areas, though that could just be perception.

I don't know about Wabasca, but cold lake is geared towards insitu - which means that they bore two wells side by side pump steam into one and suck liquified bitumin out of the other. Iv'e been to the restored minesite at Syncrude they did a pretty good job restoring it but it took a long time.

Lester

 

[Lester]

time

The smart move for Alberta would be to start using its petro royalties to invest in alternative energies and reduce our own reliance on oil. Be ready to wean ourselves off oil while we sell it to the rest of the world at a premium, taps wide open.

I agree Karrie, we should be putting tons of cash into research instead of being so short sighted- I also believe that down the road Alberta should take control of all of it,. Provincialize it take all the profits not just the royalties- we(Alberta) paid for the research these Oil companies are just middle men taking the cream off the top.

 

[karrie]

well, I knew from being around the PeaceRiver area that they weren't facing the same issues that the Athabasca field is, so they must be doing insitu as well, which would explain why the Cold Lake and Peace River fields were striking me as different from what I've seen of them versus Fort McMurray.

 

[Westerner]

The cons will win again - the best we could hope for is a minority gov't. No party should be in power for as long as these guys have been - it's bad for democracy, the civil service, even the economy and environment.

How is that bad for democracy? Democracy is the rule of the majority therefore having a democratic government in power for even a 100 years is not bad, it is just what democracy is. If you agree with democracy then you are in favour of majority rule. Also the economy is not dependent of what government organisation is in place. After all Hong Kong was a colony yet had one of the most open economies in the world. You can have an absolute monarchy and still can have a competitive free market. In the matters of the environment it is a question of individual property rights. If land was actually private then people who owned the land would be accountable if they harmed other parties by their actions. If Land Owner A is dumping toxic waste downstream to Land Owner B then Land Owner B's rights are being infringed therefore can seek compensation for damages or halt the actions of Land Owner A. How the injured parties seek compensation would be up to them.

 

[Dixie Cup]

Not everyone is benefiting from the so-called boom and it distresses me greatly. While my family is doing "okay" - no, we're not in the oil patch at all, but we're holding our own, many, especially single parent families, are hard hit. Of course they're not the only ones, but I single them out particularly since I know a few and they are struggleing. A mom with 1 or 2 kids, no support from their long-lost partners, paying $1500/mo in rent for an apt or house - they've got a reasonably good job but with utilities, food, transportation (bus passes went up in Edmonton from $59 to $66.50/mo) - the city keeps adding "fees" to everything - it's just really hard. Lets face it, MOST Albertans DON'T work in the oil patch making $30+ or more per hour.

Having said all that, if the Libs and NDP had decent leadership and PRACTICAL ideas, they just might stand a chance but I don't see much changing quite frankly. They (Libs/NDP) may get a few more seats but I suspect the Conservatives will win again.

JMO

 

[Dixie Cup]

Oh, one more thing, I think it might be quite interesting if there was a minority gov't - hmmm - nah, don't think it'll happen but you never know..... (talk about hedging my bets )

 

[Andem]

Not everyone is benefiting from the so-called boom and it distresses me greatly. While my family is doing "okay" - no, we're not in the oil patch at all, but we're holding our own, many, especially single parent families, are hard hit. Of course they're not the only ones, but I single them out particularly since I know a few and they are struggleing. A mom with 1 or 2 kids, no support from their long-lost partners, paying $1500/mo in rent for an apt or house - they've got a reasonably good job but with utilities, food, transportation (bus passes went up in Edmonton from $59 to $66.50/mo) - the city keeps adding "fees" to everything - it's just really hard. Lets face it, MOST Albertans DON'T work in the oil patch making $30+ or more per hour.
JMO

I think that's the case across the country, at least in many major cities. Let's look at the cost of living in Toronto and the area. A metropass costs 100$ per month, a large portion of the population working in Toronto live outside of it.. that might put the cost of transportation at 170$ per month if you DON'T have a car.

Then there's the cost of rent. You're either living in the absolute slums with a roomie JUST scraping by, you're a student and digging yourself into unbearable debt or you've got a relatively good job pulling in over 50k.. and even the city is expensive.

Now look at Vancouver.. similar situation. Anywhere in Alberta, same. Montreal is also getting more expensive but not on par with the rest.

There's a huge gap in Canada and it's widening.

 

[dancing-loon]

O.K., let's get off the Toronto streets and back to Alberta!!

Just found this headline: 'Conspiracy of silence' on tarsands, group says.

A new report accuses the federal government of allowing Alberta's tarsands to become "the most destructive project on earth.

he study was commissioned by Environmental Defence, a health organization, and features satellite imagery of the vast project.
Alberta's tarsands are second only to Saudi Arabia as the world's largest oil reserve.
"The enormous toxics problems go hand-in-hand with massive global warming pollution and the impending destruction of a boreal forest the size of Florida," the report says in its introduction.
Group spokesperson Matt Price blames Ottawa for failing to enforce federal environmental laws.
"I think there's sort of a conspiracy of silence, especially on the part of the federal government, with regards to the tar sands," Price said, "because there's an agenda to expand it dramatically over the next 10 to 15 years."

Read entire article here.... http://tinyurl.com/2mrzsq

So, it IS true what a German guy told me already a year ago: Environmental Disaster!!
Naturally, the government keeps hush about things that we folks might not like and want, but again BIG business has the upper hand.
We can't backpedal now... the money people would pull out and leave us the mess!

Here is a good link with a map as well: http://zfacts.com/p/218.html



​

 

[Zzarchov]

How is that bad for democracy? Democracy is the rule of the majority therefore having a democratic government in power for even a 100 years is not bad, it is just what democracy is. If you agree with democracy then you are in favour of majority rule.

Majority Party rule is usually with Minority public support.

Usually around 40% of the population and 100% of the power.

So no, that is not what all democracy is, its one form of it. And not a good one.

I am favour of democracy and not having a party majority (unless it really is a majority)

 

[dancing-loon]

Alberta risks becoming a pariah

Will Prime Minister Stephen Harper speak some home truths to his fellow Albertans about energy and the environment? Chances are no, but we can always dream.Albertans, without being conscious of the fact, are isolating themselves in Canada on climate change and, far more seriously, might well be isolating themselves in North America, while also heading toward the worst climate-change record in the industrialized world.

http://tinyurl.com/2oqbcs

Really? That sounds over-dramatized. Aren't the US and China the worst ones by far?​

 

[harleyhunny]

Well at least he mentions the arts. In BC I hear that you get a tax break if you put your kids in "hockey, or gymnastics", isn't that called favortism. Why not all kids that are involved in an extracorricular activity. Not all kids are fat/obese, and do not need all that exercise, (mine never did), and I feel that if kids are involved in an exta corricular activity then they are staying out of trouble, and expanding their horizons, and that should be awarded too, the same as hockey, (it is not the only sport in Canada, there is soccer, basketball, skating, baseball, etc) why the special interest? It is not fair taxation, and not fair at all, typical of the government to think with tunnel vision. We need those involved in the arts as well as sports don't you think?
I have a relative that is in politics, I shall speak to him about righting this wrong, and maybe lobby the government to change this discriminating policy.
I am moving to the province of Alberta, it is where all my kids live, and money is better. I have no plans to vote, I liked Ralph.

 

[gerryh]

Well at least he mentions the arts. In BC I hear that you get a tax break if you put your kids in "hockey, or gymnastics", isn't that called favortism. Why not all kids that are involved in an extracorricular activity. Not all kids are fat/obese, and do not need all that exercise, (mine never did), and I feel that if kids are involved in an exta corricular activity then they are staying out of trouble, and expanding their horizons, and that should be awarded too, the same as hockey, (it is not the only sport in Canada, there is soccer, basketball, skating, baseball, etc) why the special interest? It is not fair taxation, and not fair at all, typical of the government to think with tunnel vision. We need those involved in the arts as well as sports don't you think?
I have a relative that is in politics, I shall speak to him about righting this wrong, and maybe lobby the government to change this discriminating policy.
I am moving to the province of Alberta, it is where all my kids live, and money is better. I have no plans to vote, I liked Ralph.

want some cheese with that whine?

and stay in BC...we don't need another sponger moving out here.

 

[dancing-loon]

want some cheese with that whine?

and stay in BC...we don't need another sponger moving out here.

This is a personal insult and attack!!!

When will the moderation finally put a duct tape over his mouth??

 

[karrie]

If and when the moderation teams gives an infraction or discusses a post with someone, it is NOT our job to inform you of it loon. You have NO idea what has been said to people via PM or otherwise. You also obviously didn't see that there WAS a comment from the moderation after this post, in another thread, inviting posters to take personal attacks there and smarten up or face moderation.

 

[dancing-loon]

If and when the moderation teams give an infraction or discuss a post with someone, it is NOT our job to inform you of it loon. You have NO idea what has been said to people via PM or otherwise. You also obviously didn't see that there WAS a comment from the moderation after this post, in another thread, inviting posters to take personal attacks there and smarten up or face moderation.

Please, don't shout at me! And NO I was not aware of that other thread.