Alberta Education vs Ontario Education: which is more progressive?

[gerryh]

You'll notice that the Alberta Ministry of Education even allows schools to produce curricula for other languages if they wish. That's similar to the British and Hungarian systems. Some countries recognize even sign languages as being able to fulfil high school second-language requirements, and why not?

It would seem that the Alberta system is much more culturally open than the Ontario one, surprise surprise.

There is no second language requirement in Alberta.

 

[Machjo]

There is no second language requirement in Alberta.

Now that's interesting. So that might explain the freedom schools are granted to teach a second language. Personally, I would lean in favour of a second-language being compulsory while granting schools the freedom to choose which second-language to teach from among the world's languages.

But if making a second-language compulsory means dictating which second-language to teach, as is the case in Ontario, then I'd go for the Alberta system any day. It makes it a much more open to the world's cultures than the Ontario system, not to mention local Aboriginal ones too.

 

[gerryh]

as I said, I have found only 4 Catholic Schools in Edmonton that offer Cree, aside from them the only other Aboriginal language courses available are through university. You have made it sound like Cree and Blackfoot is available in a wide number of schools throughout the Province.

 

[Machjo]

as I said, I have found only 4 Catholic Schools in Edmonton that offer Cree, aside from them the only other Aboriginal language courses available are through university. You have made it sound like Cree and Blackfoot is available in a wide number of schools throughout the Province.

It wouldn't matter if not a single school were teaching it. The point is that the Alberta Government has officially granted each school the freedom to choose its second language of instruction for itself, unlike in Ontario where it is dictated from on high. At least in Alberta, the possibility is there without legal interruption, unlike in Ontario.

And before anyone makes reference to Reserves, that's an exception in Ontario, where they are allowed to teach them. But if we're going to go by their standards, in the provicne of Quebec, Cree-medium schools exist up to grade four already and are develiping further. In Ontario, to the best of my knowledge, it's only as a second-language, and that's on the reseves only. In Alberta, it applies province-wide, like I said, at least in principle even if few if any schools have chosen to exercise that freedom. I'm pointing out that in Ontario, the option itself doesn't exist.

Just another example of Ontario's comparatively conservative education policy, even by Alberta and, at least on reserves, Quebec standards.

 

[gerryh]

It wouldn't matter if not a single school were teaching it. The point is that the Alberta Government has officially granted each school the freedom to choose its second language of instruction for itself, unlike in Ontario where it is dictated from on high. At least in Alberta, the possibility is there without legal interruption, unlike in Ontario.

And before anyone makes reference to Reserves, that's an exception in Ontario, where they are allowed to teach them. But if we're going to go by their standards, in the provicne of Quebec, Cree-medium schools exist up to grade four already and are develiping further. In Ontario, to the best of my knowledge, it's only as a second-language, and that's on the reseves only. In Alberta, it applies province-wide, like I said, at least in principle even if few if any schools have chosen to exercise that freedom. I'm pointing out that in Ontario, the option itself doesn't exist.

Just another example of Ontario's comparatively conservative education policy, even by Alberta and, at least on reserves, Quebec standards.

well, I've been doing one hell of alot of surfing, and from what I can see, Alberta and Ontario handle aboriginal languages the same way. The Ontario Education Ministry offers the exact same thing as the Alberta Education and it looks like BC and Saskatchewan are the same. I have not checked out the other provinces or territory's. So, I say you are wrong, or at least misinformed. If you have links to refute what I have researched, please provide them.

 

[Machjo]

well, I've been doing one hell of alot of surfing, and from what I can see, Alberta and Ontario handle aboriginal languages the same way. The Ontario Education Ministry offers the exact same thing as the Alberta Education and it looks like BC and Saskatchewan are the same. I have not checked out the other provinces or territory's. So, I say you are wrong, or at least misinformed. If you have links to refute what I have researched, please provide them.

What do you mean exactly by they handle them in the same way? If we ignore on reserves, Alberta does not require French to be taught, and essentially any language can be taught as per the school's desire.

In Ontario, French is compulsory:

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/secondary/fsl910curr.pdf

Essentially, the only choices the school has is in how intense the French course will be, core, extended, or immersion. Any more than that, and it's French-medium. But French is not an option in the Ontario system.

 

[gerryh]

So.....you're saying that Ontario REQUIRES students to take French all the way through High school to graduate?

 

[Machjo]

So.....you're saying that Ontario REQUIRES students to take French all the way through High school to graduate?

Yes. If the school wants to teach another second language, that would have to be on top of French, not instead of French as is the case in Alberta. Owing to time and money constraints, that therefore places an unfair burden on schools in favour of French over sign languages, Aboriginal languages, or other international languages. That is not the case in Alberta.

 

[Machjo]

Like I said, the Alberta system does appear more liberal than the Ontario one overall.

 

[DurkaDurka]

That's exactly what I was suggesting, Gerry, that it's the Ontario electorate's fault in the end. I was just adding to that though that this also flies in the face of the stereotype that Ontario is so 'liberal' and all while Alberta is just slightly right of Attila the Hun.

What exactly are we at fault for?

 

[DurkaDurka]

My guess is that the Ontario Liberal party is more rednecked than Alberta's conservatives as far as cultural openness goes.

The fact is, John Tory failed on many fronts, not just his decision to fund other religious schools.

The only fair way to address this issue is to stop funding religious schools entirely. Public fund should not be spend on segregating students by religion.

 

[DurkaDurka]

So.....you're saying that Ontario REQUIRES students to take French all the way through High school to graduate?

When I was in high school, you had to take it until grade 9.

 

[gerryh]

Yes. If the school wants to teach another second language, that would have to be on top of French, not instead of French as is the case in Alberta. Owing to time and money constraints, that therefore places an unfair burden on schools in favour of French over sign languages, Aboriginal languages, or other international languages. That is not the case in Alberta.

When I was in high school, you had to take it until grade 9.

That's right Durka, for Ontario all that is needed for graduation is one french credit from grade 9 through 12, which means the kids take french in grade 9 and they have fullfilled the requirements for french.

In the high school that my son just graduated from in Calgary, the options he had in Senior High (grade 10-11) for language was French or Spanish, that's it. In Junior high (grade 7 to 9) it was French, that's it.

 

[gerryh]

golly gee whiz....will ya look at this....Ontario education offers the teaching of 7 different native languages compared to only 2 on Alberta.

Aboriginal Education Strategy

Native Languages

The Ontario curriculum offers studies in seven Native Languages. Language carries with it the spirit, culture, history, and philosophy of a people, and is the principal means by which culture is preserved and transmitted. Ontario’s Native Language curriculum is available to all students who want to learn a Native language and develop a better understanding of the culture of which that language forms a part.

 

[taxslave]

I don't know much about either one but I do know that B.C. has a real problem with a militant teachers union that causes waste of money and an inability to repair the system. Would it be fair to assume that Ontario at least has the same problem?
Alberta being a little less union tolerant should have less of a problem.

 

[gerryh]

bump

 

[Machjo]

What exactly are we at fault for?

Voting in a government that had actively campaigned against defending openly discriminatory legislation on religious schools. We could add to that not bringing up the fact that some might not want to learn French and might want to elarn other languages instead.

 

[Machjo]

The fact is, John Tory failed on many fronts, not just his decision to fund other religious schools.

The only fair way to address this issue is to stop funding religious schools entirely. Public fund should not be spend on segregating students by religion.

It's not the only fair way, but it is one fair way. All or nothing. It might require changing the BNA Act though. I'd be willing to go that route, since we'll need to go it sooner or later anyway; but I suspect many would be too scared to re-open the constituion.

 

[Machjo]

That's right Durka, for Ontario all that is needed for graduation is one french credit from grade 9 through 12, which means the kids take french in grade 9 and they have fullfilled the requirements for french.

In the high school that my son just graduated from in Calgary, the options he had in Senior High (grade 10-11) for language was French or Spanish, that's it. In Junior high (grade 7 to 9) it was French, that's it.

That was a decision made by the school, not the Ministry of Education. In Ontario, I'll have to loot further into how many years they must learn it, but I always thought that it was the province, not the school, that made French compulsory through and through.

 

[Machjo]

Aboriginal Education Strategy

OK I missed this. Though I'd have to find out if this could be taken instead of French or only on top of French. More digging required I suppose. That still doesn't let the Ontario government off the hook for the Religious schools though.