Age vote to 16

[Ten Packs]

I'm not confortable with you bringing money issues over ideas, values and dreams of this generation.

Never said I was. I just suspect that fiscal responsability, in general, with exceptions, improves with life experience. Especially when it's YOUR tax-money involved.

I'm the product of more than a generation of borrow and spend, borrow and spend - and I'm here to tell you "It don't work."

 

[Reverend Blair]

I'm the product of more than a generation of borrow and spend, borrow and spend - and I'm here to tell you "It don't work."

I've been paying for the bills incurred by your generation for most of my adult life, Ten Packs. I agree. It's not a political possibility to return to that anymore though, not in Canada. This isn;t George Bush's Amerika, after all.

 

[cub1c]

Especially when it's YOUR tax-money involved.

You seem to have a pretty much egocentric view. You know, this is what's driving us appart, your lack of socialism. Is egocentrism(?) the opposite of federalism?

But you know, for you, socialism pretty much = bunch of whinners.

.......

Can someone agree that the only reason the age of vote is not already lowered to 16 is the consequence of federalism?

 

[Ten Packs]

Especially when it's YOUR tax-money involved.

You seem to have a pretty much egocentric view. You know, this is what's driving us appart, your lack of socialism. Is egocentrism(?) the opposite of federalism?

But you know, for you, socialism pretty much = bunch of whinners.

.......

Can someone agree that the only reason the age of vote is not already lowered to 16 is the consequence of federalism?

Has it occurred to you that juvenile insults and attacking the messenger hardly furthers your case for lowering the voting age?

Are you not yet capable of carrying on a legitimate discussion?

 

[Ten Packs]

I've been paying for the bills incurred by your generation for most of my adult life, Ten Packs.

Careful, there, Rev.... the Budget has been balanced for what? 9 years now? That tells me that several governments, that DIDNT, were elected AFTER you had the right to vote.

Methinks you tend to forget you're now middle-aged.....

 

[Reverend Blair]

Can someone agree that the only reason the age of vote is not already lowered to 16 is the consequence of federalism?

Nope...and nobody has ever accused me of being afraid of socialism.

Careful, there, Rev.... the Budget has been balanced for what? 9 years now? That tells me that several governments, that DIDNT, were elected AFTER you had the right to vote.

I think it's important to remember that I never voted for one of those governments.

I'm not saying that my generation didn't benefit from the borrowing, Ten Packs. I seem to remember going to school and spending some time in the hospital and all the rest. I'm pretty sure you've seen me argue for maintaining the tax rate until the debt is paid off on that basis.

I am saying that it was very much your generation that was in charge though. Every leader of this country, every senior policy-maker, so far has been closer to your age than mine. Would my generation have done better? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, we're wizards when it comes to finance and sooo politically involved. :lol: :lol: :lol: That's why when election time comes around I always find myself in a truck with somebody either your age or your kids' age.

By the time I was eighteen the rhetoric was already leaning this way though. Grant Devine may have been a criminal miscreant who almost borrowed Saskatchewan into bankruptcy, but he was preaching fiscal restraint while he did it. Same with Mulroney.

Methinks you tend to forget you're now middle-aged.....

I'm only middle aged if you're betting I'll make eighty. Not a lot of people making that bet, insist on steep odds. :wink:

 

[Ten Packs]

I am saying that it was very much your generation that was in charge though.

Sorry Rev - have to disagree again:

Pierre Trudeau (first peace-time deficit budget). Born? 1919
Joe Clark - born? 1939
John Turner - born? 1929
Brian Mulroney - born? 1939
Jean Chretien - born? 1934

ME - born? 1951

Kimmie is the only one from MY side of the Second World War - and she wasnt around long enough for her chair to get warm.
I myself QUIT the PC party in the mid-eighties, largely in protest over Mulroneys liberal fiscal policies. Havent voted for them since.



Sharpen those sights, Rev - yer aim is gettin' off.... :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Reverend Blair]

I am saying that it was very much your generation that was in charge though. Every leader of this country, every senior policy-maker, so far has been closer to your age than mine.

So let's do the math:

Pierre Trudeau (first peace-time deficit budget). Born? 1919
Joe Clark - born? 1939
John Turner - born? 1929
Brian Mulroney - born? 1939
Jean Chretien - born? 1934

ME - born? 1951

Is somebody born in 1951 closer to the age of somebody born in the 1930's than somebody born in 1964? Even with new math and my propensity for counting on my fingers, I'd have have say that they are. I can dig out my abacus if you want, but I doubt it will change things much.

The fact remains that you were the ones with the numbers though, Ten Packs. Even if I could have gotten my whole generation to come to the polls and vote the same way I did (and don't think I didn't try to talk them into it), it wouldn't have changed things much.

I myself QUIT the PC party in the mid-eighties, largely in protest over Mulroneys liberal fiscal policies. Havent voted for them since.

I never joined the party, largely because Mulroney was a little too fond of the sow they keep tethered in the secret room under the Peace Tower and nightmares about Brian and Mila in an orgy with Ronnie and Nancy.

 

[cub1c]

I never joined the party, largely because Mulroney was a little too fond of the sow they keep tethered in the secret room under the Peace Tower and nightmares about Brian and Mila in an orgy with Ronnie and Nancy.

:lol:
Here's another nigthmare for you, Stephen Harper asking Paul Martin in marriage.

I think we were discussing electoral majority here? :wink:

 

[Reverend Blair]

Most people at least ask about the secret room under the Peace Tower. ;-)

 

[Ten Packs]

If arithmetic is what you base your argument on - as opposed to the mind-set and culture of the twenties and thirties (oh, and I noticed you cherry-picked the youngest PM's , Rev) versus my POST-WAR Gen, then you're a poorer study of history than I thought, sir.

But then you have had this oddly misplaced resentment toward "60's" people for as long as I have known you.... kinda reminds me of a Christian who is pissed off at Jesus because He had the audacity to die, before "fixing" everything.

Go figure.....

Even if I could have gotten my whole generation to come to the polls and vote the same way I did (and don't think I didn't try to talk them into it), it wouldn't have changed things much.

That was Bull-flop, and you know it, Rev - if I could have gotten my entire generation out in 1972, when it was Stanfield VS Trudeau..... do you really think it would have MATTERED? It was a fait' accomplis. I voted - did it make a difference? No.
And then you dont understand why we got jaundiced to the process for a while? Maybe you should ask yourself if it would make a difference to your understanding - if you had BEEN THERE.

WE HAD BEEN BEAT!
Nixon had won in the States - Trying to do anything up HERE was a lost cause..... nothing was going to change. It was frigging DEPRESSING.
Have you ever asked yourself why the reaction to the times was to "go back to the land"??? Because we damn-near GAVE UP!
Ever listen to CSNY's song "Wooden Ships"?

"setting sail - you don't need ussssss......."


Oh, and since then.... well, many of your Gen write articles and songs, demonstrate and investigate, and "hold the Buggers to the wall!" - well, THAT'S NEW!


PLEASE! Don't leave me thinking that the main reason that you resent people that are not much beyond ten years older than you - is that we failed to pass a Perfect World on to you.... if thats the case - well, Mea Culpa! That is the way history has been since we learned to write.

Same thing happened to US, too! - so friggin DEAL WITH IT!

 

[Reverend Blair]

See...sixteen year olds don't have all this weird baggage that comes with the boomers. That alone is enough reason to give them the vote.

That was Bull-flop, and you know it, Rev - if I could have gotten my entire generation out in 1972, when it was Stanfield VS Trudeau..... do you really think it would have MATTERED?

Do you think they would have voted for Stanfield? Was he the darling of the hippie generation?

Oh, and since then.... well, many of your Gen write articles and songs, demonstrate and investigate, and "hold the Buggers to the wall!" - well, THAT'S NEW!

Yeah, yeah...you were real originals and nobody will every do anything as well. Heard it all before, man.

oh, and I noticed you cherry-picked the youngest PM's , Rev)

Oh, what PMs were those? The ones I had a chance to vote against.

 

[Ten Packs]

Yeah, yeah...you were real originals and nobody will every do anything as well. Heard it all before, man.

No, actually there was the "Beat" generation before us, and the
Socialist/Communists/Workers organization before that, and Womens Sufferage before that.

Just saying that there's nothing new under the sun.

 

[Reverend Blair]

You forgot the free love movement of Paris in the twenties, Ten Packs.

 

[Ten Packs]

ah yes - zee French, such naughty folks....

 

[Reverend Blair]

The French? It was mostly American ex-pats seeking freedom from oppression as near as I can tell. They just went to Paris. Just like a Jimmy Buffet song, or a Henry Miller book.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Yeah...but what about the secret room under the Peace Tower :?: 8O :?:

 

[cub1c]

Is the electoral majorty discussed in English Canada? Is it considered as an important issue by the media, people opinion?

Or are there no debate at all? What is NPD's position in their electoral platform? Are they pushing this issue? Is there any active movement, lobbying, that promotes it? Making it a social debate? What politicians have to say about it? Are they ignoring this issue?

Lots of concerns.

 

[SirKevin]

Well, speaking as a fifteen year old -- and thus being horribly biased and politcally tainted 8) -- I would say that yes, the voting age should be lowered to sixteen.

This is not because I think that a lot of sixteen year olds know/care enough about politics to cast an informed ballot -- a lot don't, and wouldn't know what the hell they were voting for if they stepped into a ballot box. Some do, obviously. I do. I know some 16/17 year olds that probably do...but I also don't think that the ones who don't care and haven't learnt a little bit about the parties will even bother voting, so I can't foresee Harper getting elected because a bunch of 16 year olds randomly checked the Conservative box :wink:

I would also think that it would allow for educational opportunities in high schools...during campaigns, if sixteen year olds were allowed to vote, it would make a lot of sense for gr 10, 11, and 12 classes to have to study the campaign every day and ;earn about the issues, then on election day each class could go vote in the school gym or whatever. It would at least make people aware of the issues in federal/provincial politics and teach them a bit about the political spectrum and hopefully encourage them to do follow the campaign themselves and vote in the next election.

 

[no1important]

Well 16 should be the voting age not 18. Even 15 would be ok. Teens have the same right to vote for people that make laws and policies.