Afghanistan Holds Landmark Elections
- Thread starter Nascar_James
- Start date
A good day for deMOCKcracy as well:
http://today.reuters.com/News/CrisesArticle.aspx?storyId=ISL13274
No doubt about war crimes in battered Afghan area
Sat 17 Sep 2005 6:47 AM ET
By David Brunnstrom
KABUL, Sept 17 (Reuters) - Abdul Rabb Rasoul Sayyaf may be a candidate in Afghan elections on Sunday but he is unlikely to get many votes in Dashte Barche.
In fact, he would be well advised not to show his face in this part of western Kabul.
The district was largely destroyed by his forces during Afghanistan's civil war because most of its people are from a rival ethnic group.
More than 10 years later, the terror of devastating night-time rocket attacks, abductions and rapes has not been forgotten by the ethnic Hazaras of Dashte Barche, where many are still struggling to rebuild bombed-out homes.
They want to see Sayyaf and other warlords on trial for war crimes, not dignified by positions in the country's first free parliamentary elections in more than 30 years.
"These warlords have destroyed our country," said grocery store owner Khalifa Naseer. "They should be brought to justice."
Rights groups have expressed concern that Sayyaf and other warlords accused of war crimes and crimes against humanity in fighting between mujahideen (holy warrior) factions that overthrew the Soviet-backed government in 1992 have been allowed to stand in the elections.
A Human Rights Watch report in July accused Sayyaf's Ittihad-i-Islami forces of failing to distinguish between military and civilian targets when battling Hazara Hezb-i-Wahdat forces in western Kabul.
It said it appeared Ittihad intentionally targeted civilians in rocket and artillery attacks and abducted and killed them because of their ethnicity.
Wahdat forces were guilty of similar actions against civilians in Ittihad's ethnic Pashtun areas, it said.
In Dashte Barche, where the population is predominately Hazara, it will be a long time before those nightmarish days are forgotten. Thousands died, mainly women, children and the elderly, and locals still blame Sayyaf.
'RESPECTED' MAN
"My three brothers were killed by the rockets of this 'respected' man," said Sayed Satar Ali, who was seven in 1992. "I am alone with my father and mother; the others were killed."
"I don't say this just because I am a Hazara, but it's not a good idea to have these people in parliament."
Hazaras, who are minority Shi'ite Muslims, say tensions still run high with pro-Sayyaf Sunni Muslim Pashtuns in adjoining districts and in his heartland of Paghman on Kabul's outskirts.
"If I went to Paghman, I would be 90 percent afraid," said furniture maker Amir Muzafari. "If people came here from Paghman they would be afraid too."
Sayyaf could expect no votes from Dashte Barche, he said.
"I want to see national unity, but if I were to see Sayyaf in this area, I would slap him in the face," he said.
"Not a single Hazara would vote for him."
Asked if he thought tensions could boil over again, Muzafari replied: "If people like Sayyaf get into parliament, yes."
Speaking to journalists in Paghman on Wednesday, Sayyaf said he would back an investigation into abuses during the civil war, but denied wrongdoing and defended his right to stand in the parliamentary elections.
"If there was some proof that I had committed some crimes, then I will be responsible for that, but I am sure that we have worked for the freedom of the country," he said.
"We have struggled against crimes and didn't commit crimes," he said. "These are only the claims of those who are against us and against the freedom of this country."
Sam Zarifi, deputy director for Asia for Human Rights Watch, said there was "very strong proof" Sayyaf's forces were involved in crimes against humanity and war crimes.
President Hamid Karzai has defended the fact warlords have been allowed to run in the elections, saying it was in the interests of national reconciliation.
He said voters had the choice of who to vote for and, if there was a tribunal to prosecute abuses, parliament could decide whether to lift the immunity of anyone elected.
However, significant doubts remain whether Karzai's administration will pursue justice for war crimes and there are concerns that if warlords are elected to parliament they will seek to pass an amnesty for mujahideen commanders.
Asked if he thought Sayyaf was guilty, Khalifa Naseer laughed and gestured skyward: "It's as clear as the sun."
But asked if he thought a trial would ever happen, he shook his head and replied: "I don't think so."
*************************************************************************************
Things are never quite as they seem in Bushland Utopia.
http://today.reuters.com/News/CrisesArticle.aspx?storyId=ISL13274
No doubt about war crimes in battered Afghan area
Sat 17 Sep 2005 6:47 AM ET
By David Brunnstrom
KABUL, Sept 17 (Reuters) - Abdul Rabb Rasoul Sayyaf may be a candidate in Afghan elections on Sunday but he is unlikely to get many votes in Dashte Barche.
In fact, he would be well advised not to show his face in this part of western Kabul.
The district was largely destroyed by his forces during Afghanistan's civil war because most of its people are from a rival ethnic group.
More than 10 years later, the terror of devastating night-time rocket attacks, abductions and rapes has not been forgotten by the ethnic Hazaras of Dashte Barche, where many are still struggling to rebuild bombed-out homes.
They want to see Sayyaf and other warlords on trial for war crimes, not dignified by positions in the country's first free parliamentary elections in more than 30 years.
"These warlords have destroyed our country," said grocery store owner Khalifa Naseer. "They should be brought to justice."
Rights groups have expressed concern that Sayyaf and other warlords accused of war crimes and crimes against humanity in fighting between mujahideen (holy warrior) factions that overthrew the Soviet-backed government in 1992 have been allowed to stand in the elections.
A Human Rights Watch report in July accused Sayyaf's Ittihad-i-Islami forces of failing to distinguish between military and civilian targets when battling Hazara Hezb-i-Wahdat forces in western Kabul.
It said it appeared Ittihad intentionally targeted civilians in rocket and artillery attacks and abducted and killed them because of their ethnicity.
Wahdat forces were guilty of similar actions against civilians in Ittihad's ethnic Pashtun areas, it said.
In Dashte Barche, where the population is predominately Hazara, it will be a long time before those nightmarish days are forgotten. Thousands died, mainly women, children and the elderly, and locals still blame Sayyaf.
'RESPECTED' MAN
"My three brothers were killed by the rockets of this 'respected' man," said Sayed Satar Ali, who was seven in 1992. "I am alone with my father and mother; the others were killed."
"I don't say this just because I am a Hazara, but it's not a good idea to have these people in parliament."
Hazaras, who are minority Shi'ite Muslims, say tensions still run high with pro-Sayyaf Sunni Muslim Pashtuns in adjoining districts and in his heartland of Paghman on Kabul's outskirts.
"If I went to Paghman, I would be 90 percent afraid," said furniture maker Amir Muzafari. "If people came here from Paghman they would be afraid too."
Sayyaf could expect no votes from Dashte Barche, he said.
"I want to see national unity, but if I were to see Sayyaf in this area, I would slap him in the face," he said.
"Not a single Hazara would vote for him."
Asked if he thought tensions could boil over again, Muzafari replied: "If people like Sayyaf get into parliament, yes."
Speaking to journalists in Paghman on Wednesday, Sayyaf said he would back an investigation into abuses during the civil war, but denied wrongdoing and defended his right to stand in the parliamentary elections.
"If there was some proof that I had committed some crimes, then I will be responsible for that, but I am sure that we have worked for the freedom of the country," he said.
"We have struggled against crimes and didn't commit crimes," he said. "These are only the claims of those who are against us and against the freedom of this country."
Sam Zarifi, deputy director for Asia for Human Rights Watch, said there was "very strong proof" Sayyaf's forces were involved in crimes against humanity and war crimes.
President Hamid Karzai has defended the fact warlords have been allowed to run in the elections, saying it was in the interests of national reconciliation.
He said voters had the choice of who to vote for and, if there was a tribunal to prosecute abuses, parliament could decide whether to lift the immunity of anyone elected.
However, significant doubts remain whether Karzai's administration will pursue justice for war crimes and there are concerns that if warlords are elected to parliament they will seek to pass an amnesty for mujahideen commanders.
Asked if he thought Sayyaf was guilty, Khalifa Naseer laughed and gestured skyward: "It's as clear as the sun."
But asked if he thought a trial would ever happen, he shook his head and replied: "I don't think so."
*************************************************************************************
Things are never quite as they seem in Bushland Utopia.
Karzi is a puppet to American policy. He is a frontman of the oil industry and would never be elected in a fair and open polling. The political suasion is born in Pakistan and there is no genuine opposition given voice. Canada should not be involved in that region at all.
RE: Afghanistan Holds Lan
But some of Afghanistan's most unsavory warlords also have been allowed to compete in the election, including Abdul Rasul Sayyaf, whose forces were notorious for rape and murder during the civil war in the 1990s. About 200 candidates who still have links to militias are running for election, while only 32 have been disqualified.
Controversy also surrounds the candidacy of so-called moderate Taliban. Among the half-dozen onetime Taliban senior officials running for office are Wakil Ahmad Mutawakil, the former foreign minister who spent three years in U.S. custody, and Muhammad Khaksar, a former deputy interior minister.
The election may hold practical pitfalls as well. The large number of candidates means the mostly illiterate electorate must grapple with a huge ballot -- up to 14 broadsheet pages, and 700 candidates long in Kabul.
But Muhammad Zaman, a vegetable seller with black kohl under his eyes in the Pashtun fashion, praised the Taliban.
"They are good men,'' he said. "We want them back in power again."
Read rest here
I think it will be rigged. The US only basically controls Kabul. They have been there for almost 4 years now and still can't win the war? wtf? Some powerful country they are, not to mention they win in Iraq either or take care of their own people after a hurricane.......
But some of Afghanistan's most unsavory warlords also have been allowed to compete in the election, including Abdul Rasul Sayyaf, whose forces were notorious for rape and murder during the civil war in the 1990s. About 200 candidates who still have links to militias are running for election, while only 32 have been disqualified.
Controversy also surrounds the candidacy of so-called moderate Taliban. Among the half-dozen onetime Taliban senior officials running for office are Wakil Ahmad Mutawakil, the former foreign minister who spent three years in U.S. custody, and Muhammad Khaksar, a former deputy interior minister.
The election may hold practical pitfalls as well. The large number of candidates means the mostly illiterate electorate must grapple with a huge ballot -- up to 14 broadsheet pages, and 700 candidates long in Kabul.
But Muhammad Zaman, a vegetable seller with black kohl under his eyes in the Pashtun fashion, praised the Taliban.
"They are good men,'' he said. "We want them back in power again."
Read rest here
I think it will be rigged. The US only basically controls Kabul. They have been there for almost 4 years now and still can't win the war? wtf? Some powerful country they are, not to mention they win in Iraq either or take care of their own people after a hurricane.......
You are going to have ex-Taliban officials in office. It cannot be helped. The country was once ruled by the Taliban. The country is filled. However, these individuals would need to have demonstrated their support and assistance to the post Taliban government, a proof that they have severed ties to the old terrorist based government.
RE: Afghanistan Holds Lan
That's fine with you as long as they agree to be Uncle Sam's pocket, isn't it James?
That's fine with you as long as they agree to be Uncle Sam's pocket, isn't it James?
Re: RE: Afghanistan Holds Lan
heh heh heh ... yeah ... hey-wait-a-minute, of course not!
It's in everyone's best interest for Afghanistan to have a democtratic country with free elections.
Reverend Blair said:
heh heh heh ... yeah ... hey-wait-a-minute, of course not!
It's in everyone's best interest for Afghanistan to have a democtratic country with free elections.
RE: Afghanistan Holds Lan
Are you completely unaware of your country's record on such things, James? You allow free elections as long as your guy wins. If your guy loses, you try to overthrow him. Look at Venezuela.
Are you completely unaware of your country's record on such things, James? You allow free elections as long as your guy wins. If your guy loses, you try to overthrow him. Look at Venezuela.
Absolutely not Rev. We go after countries that produce or harbor terrorists. We also denounce countries that have a record of human rights violations against it's own citizens, (i.e Venezuela).
I really don't see how anyone can take seriously words from an individual (Chavez) who in the past has silenced his own citizens for not supporting him. This individual should not be praised, but brought to trail on charges of human rights violations
I really don't see how anyone can take seriously words from an individual (Chavez) who in the past has silenced his own citizens for not supporting him. This individual should not be praised, but brought to trail on charges of human rights violations
Vanni Fucci said:
I agree there are terrorists in Pakistan, Vanni. However, Pakistani president General Pervez Musharraf, has repeatedly arrested and killed many of these terroists. He does not harbor terrosists nor does he support them, unlike Saddam who paid off the families of Palestinian suicide bombers tens of thousands of dollars. Pervez even ridiculed England after the terroist attacks there asking Blair, why the country lets in these terroists (also known as degenerates of society).
In some regions of Pakistan it's harder for the Pakistani forces to go after those terrorists hiding in the lawless mountainous region between Pakistan and Afghanistan.
It certainly is a great day for Afghanistan, Nascar I agree with you totally. We should all be happy for the people of Afghanistan, even though there is still more work to be done. In a few years we will all look back at the region and be proud of the transformation.
Dont worry these people will always argue with you because anything the US does good or bad they are against, however my hats off!
god bless Afghanistan
Dont worry these people will always argue with you because anything the US does good or bad they are against, however my hats off!
god bless Afghanistan
yup. Hard work in Afghanistan has indeed paid off. It is real nice to see the fruits of our labor. A once terrorist ruled country now has democratically elected officials.
also it is not only the US this time. I am proud to say that thousands of Canadian soilders made a contribution to the country of Afghanistan. we should all be thankful of the hard work and not forget the lives lost 
No one here can say that Afghanistan was better of 5 years ago when the country was under an oppressive taliban regiem. I sure hope Canada will be able to establish a good diplomatic relationship with Afghanistan as well as a trade relationship.(although im not too sure about the latter). :wink:
No one here can say that Afghanistan was better of 5 years ago when the country was under an oppressive taliban regiem. I sure hope Canada will be able to establish a good diplomatic relationship with Afghanistan as well as a trade relationship.(although im not too sure about the latter). :wink:
Hank C Cheyenne said:we should all be thankful of the hard work and not forget the lives lost
I'm not sure that's the apposite smiley for that particular statement, Hank. I think this is the one you were looking for: :bs:
So you guys are honestly telling me that the people of Afghanistan will be happier with a taliban state? what are you saying? Do you hope that the taliban takes over afghanistan and resumes it old ways? WHat about all the Canadians who died to give these people freedom?
Re: RE: Afghanistan Holds Landmark Elections
what on earth are you talking about ???? The Afgan invasion was revenge for 9-11 and supposedly part of the bush "war on terror". Seems the bush gang said this is where OBL was holding up along with his merry band of terrorists.....and bush was out to get them.------texas style. (Shoot first.......ask questions/ interrogate/torture later) In a way Canada was duped by the US...... as were a lot of people.......Most likely because all this took place in the afermath of 9-11 when anger /emotions were high. At the time it made sense to assist the US in getting the terrorist groups ......but that was then. Regretfully......OBL is still at large and terrorism has morphed into another , more sophisticated generation.
(btw: it might be an idea to stop mouthing/repeating the bush lines which are just lies.......and to THINK for YOURSELF.).....
Hank C Cheyenne said:
what on earth are you talking about ???? The Afgan invasion was revenge for 9-11 and supposedly part of the bush "war on terror". Seems the bush gang said this is where OBL was holding up along with his merry band of terrorists.....and bush was out to get them.------texas style. (Shoot first.......ask questions/ interrogate/torture later) In a way Canada was duped by the US...... as were a lot of people.......Most likely because all this took place in the afermath of 9-11 when anger /emotions were high. At the time it made sense to assist the US in getting the terrorist groups ......but that was then. Regretfully......OBL is still at large and terrorism has morphed into another , more sophisticated generation.
(btw: it might be an idea to stop mouthing/repeating the bush lines which are just lies.......and to THINK for YOURSELF.).....
The US is primarily responsible for the Taliban rule. It all dates back to the Cold War and the Soviet presence in Afghanistan from 1979 till 1989. In 1987 the communist-backed government produced a new constitution which like the US had a Senate and a House of Representatives with 234 seats of which 50 were occupied by opposition parties. Women had basically equal rights with men and public education was mandated by the government.But the Cold War was still on and the US was willing to do almost anything to get the Soviets out of Afghanistan except commit its own troops. So it conducted, as it has so often before, a proxy-war so that no Americans would be killed in combat. To accomplish that goal the US backed and armed the mujahideen which is Afghan for 'guerrilla.' One of the many factions of the mujahideen was the Taliban movement which was created by senior mullah (Islamic priest) Mohammed Omar Akhund in August 1994.
Have you ever noticed the more Freedom they give back over there, the more they take away over here?