Afghan family disputes Canadian Forces' account of shooting

[Mogz]

Canadian troops in Afghanistan fired no warning shots and gave no medical attention to a man they shot and killed in a taxi this week, the man's family says.
Nasrat Ali Hassan was buried on Thursday.

* INDEPTH: Afghanistan

Nasrat Ali Hassan was buried Thursday in an emotional funeral in Kandahar.

Hassan, believed to be in his mid-40s, was shot when the three-wheeled taxi in which he was riding crossed an Afghan police checkpoint near the Canadian Forces Base south of Kandahar.

Canadian troops say they fired warning shots after the taxi came within a metre of a Canadian patrol vehicle, said Lt.-Col Derek Basinger, chief of staff for Task Force Afghanistan.

* FROM MARCH 15, 2006: Canadian soldiers fatally shoot Afghan taxi driver

"Our rules do not allow any Afghans to come within a certain distance," Basinger said.

However, CBC correspondent Patrick Brown, who interviewed the family, said several details are now in dispute.

Brown said the family maintains Hassan was a passenger in the vehicle, not the driver as was initially reported. More importantly, they say, no warning shots were fired and he was not helped by the Canadians who shot him.

Canadian Forces reports made just after the shooting said Hassan had been treated at the scene, but later transported to an Afghan hospital where he died.

As for the family's latest version of events, Brown reported Thursday, "The Canadians say that's just not true."

"Very many warnings were given as this vehicle approached them – remember there have been a lot of suicide bombings and Canadians have to protect themselves – and also [Hassan] was given treatment at the scene, but was then taken to hospital by Afghan police because the Canadian medics didn't judge that his wound was very serious."
Details and contradictory information continue to emerge, Brown said, and there has been no final ruling as to what actually happened.

Nasrat Ali Hassan's family says Canadian troops fired no warning shots. (AP Photo)

"The policeman I spoke to today who took him to hospital said [Hassan] had been shot through his abdomen with a bullet exiting on the side – it's very hard to see how this could be considered as not being serious."

"This said, there's an investigation underway and it's far too early to tell if the family's account of this incident late at night in the dark is accurate or if the Canadian Forces' is."

Given the risk of suicide bombings, radio broadcasts in Afghanistan warn people not to drive too closely to military patrols.

Basinger said Canadian troops have fired at roughly 10 Afghan vehicles in the past month.

Two Canadian soldiers were killed when their armoured vehicle crashed into a taxi on the outskirts of Kandahar on March 2. Cpl. Paul Davis and Master Cpl. Timothy Wilson died in the incident, which injured five other soldiers.

One day later, five more Canadians were injured when a suicide bomber drove a small truck into their convoy near Kandahar.

More than 2,200 Canadian soldiers are stationed in and around Kandahar as part of a multinational brigade under the command of Canadian Brig.-Gen David Fraser.

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1.

"The policeman I spoke to today who took him to hospital said [Hassan] had been shot through his abdomen with a bullet exiting on the side – it's very hard to see how this could be considered as not being serious."

An abdominal wound from a 5.56mmx45mm NATO standard round is NOT a serious wound. I have taken a Combat Casualty Care Course and in the ranking of triage priority, an abdominal wound from a low calibre weapon is ranked 3 out of 4. The reason for this is the vast majority of ab wounds are fatal after upwards of EIGHT hours. Secondly the 5.56mm round has low stopping power and does very little internal damage.

2.

Nasrat Ali Hassan's family says Canadian troops fired no warning shots.

Were they there? To answer that for those not following the story; no they were not.

While I understand the pain that the family must be going through, their views are clearly lies at an attempt to draw additional financial compensation from the CF. When an Afghan is hurt/killed by the CF, and the circumstances are not combat related, the CF pays a financial compensation package. If the CF acts poorly, or does excessive damage, the package is inflated. A great example of this attempt at gouging by the Afghans is a claim put in back in 2003. A Canadian LAV-III damaged an Afghan taxi. The driver put in a claim and the CF agreed to look at the cab and dole out compensation. The damage to the cab went from a damaged drivers side (scrapes) to an utterly destroyed vehicle. After an investigation the Afghan was found to have caused further damage to his cab with a hammer. On the topic of a lack of medical attention, i'd be willing to bet that the troops went above the call of duty. On my roto and Afghan was hit by a bison and killed instantly. The medic onboard provided "first-aid" to the obviously dead Afghan in an attempt to show the bystanders that we cared.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Afghan family disputes Canadian Forces' account of shoot

I don't understand this either.

However, if he wasn't treated at the Afghan hospital right away then he could have died, we don't know when the man died so they might not have treated him for hours in that case making it their fault.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Re: Afghan family disputes Canadian Forces' account of shoot

In the coverage of this CTV made it sound like Canada's whole Mission was about to fall apart from this tragic situation.

 

[Mogz]

RE: Afghan family disputes Canadian Forces' account of shoot

In the coverage of this CTV made it sound like Canada's whole Mission was about to fall apart from this tragic situation.

That's the media for you. What they don't detail is that dozens of Afghans have been killed by foreign troops since 2001 in accidents. The only reason this one made the news was because it involved a bullet.

 

[mabudon]

RE: Afghan family dispute

It really does raise legitimate concerns though, I mean, hopefully folks will know that we have now officially killed an innocent with our tax dollars- I doubt the mission will "fall apart" but the (unquestioning and seemingly unquestionable) "support" for whatever it is we're supposedly doing over there may take a justified hit as folks start to ask quesitions.. one can only hope

And yes, I too had suspicions ovre the account of the family- how many people can fit in one of them rikshaws anyways??

 

[Jay]

Re: Afghan family disputes Canadian Forces' account of shoot

Canadians who died in the
September 11, 2001 Disaster


http://members.shaw.ca/kcic1/cdnwtc.html

 

[Johnny Utah]

Re: Afghan family disputes Canadian Forces' account of shoot

Canadians who died in the
September 11, 2001 Disaster


http://members.shaw.ca/kcic1/cdnwtc.html

Thanks for posting this list. This list is why Canada is in Afghanistan and it's why Canada is a partner in the Global War on Terrorism. Canada is not imune from Terrorism.

 

[NSA]

Re: Afghan family disputes Canadian Forces' account of shoot

Canadians who died in the
September 11, 2001 Disaster
http://members.shaw.ca/kcic1/cdnwtc.html

What exactly does that have to do with this guy getting shot? Canada is not in Afghanistan to avenge our 9/11 dead, we are there to protect the Afghan people from the remaining Taliban forces who were not wiped out by the Americans. I am no fan of the "War on Freedom"... sorry "on Terror" but I believe we are doing a good thing in Afghanistan. If our presence there starts to hurt the civilian population... we will have to see if we are still welcome there.

Don't lower the debate by waving the spectre of 9/11 over it.

An abdominal wound from a 5.56mmx45mm NATO standard round is NOT a serious wound. I have taken a Combat Casualty Care Course and in the ranking of triage priority, an abdominal wound from a low calibre weapon is ranked 3 out of 4. The reason for this is the vast majority of ab wounds are fatal after upwards of EIGHT hours. Secondly the 5.56mm round has low stopping power and does very little internal damage.

All very pretty and logical sounding until you actually get shot by one. It's a BULLET. Not a good thing to have through one's abdomen at any time.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Afghan family disputes Canadian Forces' account of shoot

I really have to agree with NSA on this one.

So, what does September 11 with the killing of an innocent human being?

Or I guess all Afghani people are terrorists and deserve to be killed, isn't that right Jay?

 

[Johnny Utah]

Re: Afghan family disputes Canadian Forces' account of shoot

Canadians who died in the
September 11, 2001 Disaster
http://members.shaw.ca/kcic1/cdnwtc.html

What exactly does that have to do with this guy getting shot? Canada is not in Afghanistan to avenge our 9/11 dead, we are there to protect the Afghan people from the remaining Taliban forces who were not wiped out by the Americans. I am no fan of the "War on Freedom"... sorry "on Terror" but I believe we are doing a good thing in Afghanistan. If our presence there starts to hurt the civilian population... we will have to see if we are still welcome there.

Don't lower the debate by waving the spectre of 9/11 over it.

I see the list as to why the reason Canada is in Afghanistan to fight Terrorism and to help the Afghanis rebuild their lives. 9/11 is why Canada was sent to Afghanistan not in the sense to kill all Afghanis but to get rid of the Taliban who committed brutal acts of Terror on the Afghani people and who supported Terrorism by allowing Al Qaeda and Bin Laden to remain in the country before 9/11.

As for this shooting it's tragic and hopefully the Afghanis will be more careful.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Afghan family disputes Canadian Forces' account of shoot

Your accurate there.

 

[Mogz]

RE: Afghan family disputes Canadian Forces' account of shoot

Shit happens folks. The soldiers didn't mailicously set out to kill an Afghan that day. It happened. It's easy to sit here in Canada and scorn the actions taken, however we weren't there and we don't know the details that lead up to the shooting. I myself support the troops over there, as I have numerous friend in theatre I am constantly concerned that i'll hear about them on the news being KIA or WIA. As such, if my friends ever feel the recourse to fire in defence, and in their actions kill an innocent man, i'll support them.

It really does raise legitimate concerns though, I mean, hopefully folks will know that we have now officially killed an innocent with our tax dollars

Our tax dollars payed for the tons upon tons of bombs and laser guided missiles our CF-18s hammered Serbia with in the late 90's. Those attacks no doubt killed more innocent Serbs in the 70 day air campaign than we've killed in our entire 5 years in Afghanistan.