Adults' Capacity to Discipline Children

[Kreskin]

Kreskin

Tiny folk think sincere and honest praise is the highest reward. Anyone can buy a toy.

Speaking of buying toys, my mother sent $25 to my 4-going-on-5 year old. I tried something different. I told it was for her to buy anything she wanted, but what she bought couldn't cost more than $25. So we went to Zellers and spent about an hour looking at things, pricing things out. It was an interesting exercise. She had to make a choice for the use of her $25, either two of these or one of those, or it cost more than she had etc. I'm trying to give her the sense that there is a limit to the value of money.

I'm discovering the kid has an uncanny ability to spot "boy stuff" from a mile away. If it's boy stuff she doesn't bother looking at it.

 

[Curiosity]

Zan

There is no "one law" which can accommodate all without becoming a form of dictatorship.

And certainly not in the privacy of one's home.

That is why I write government must stay out of peoples' homes and if violence or abuse is occurring, it will surface soon enough outside the home.

 

[Curiosity]

Kreskin

I loved that story - your daughter is discerning at an early age you lucky guy!!!

It's neat when they learn how to purchase things too and how much things cost. Value has no meaning unless they buy it themselves.

There is one little squirter in our family wanted the same kind of "adopted" doll as her sister got for her birthday last summer.
She waited quietly, silently, until March of this year for her doll and it has become the most precious thing she owns. I had no idea a child would wait that long for something (she was 7 years old in March). She even went through Christmas not saying a word. Why? Because she was absolutely certain the doll would be hers to choose on her birthday. Kids rarely "forget" and sometimes we adults "forget" that they don't.

 

[Jay]

That is why I write government must stay out of peoples' homes and if violence or abuse is occurring, it will surface soon enough outside the home.

On the contrary my sweet.....every home should come equipped with a self righteous Liberal to prance around the house pointing out all the horrible errors your making raising your kids and how well do you keep the house clean and how to spend your money with a social conscience...that sorta thing. Don't worry about the cost.... can you put a cost on a child raised the right way? Can you put a cost on a righteous Liberal?

 

[pastafarian]

A sharp smack on the butt can be a good wake-up call to a kid who's copping attitude. Prolonged beatings/spankings are harmful and counterproductive.

Verbal and emotional abuse can be far more damaging than a red butt.

We have to be very careful about laws which seek to micro-manage people's behaviour.

 

[Jay]

Well said Pasta.

 

[FiveParadox]

I think it would be worth noting that this amendment to the Criminal Code of Canada would only have any effect where charges were brought against parents for beating their children. Many parents are able to absolve themselves of the charges, on the basis that it was "discipline". I would suggest that, if someone sees a situation serious enough so as to warrant charges, then "discipline" is not a valid defense.

 

[Curiosity]

Jay/Pasta



A good way to bring kids up is to keep them from seeing all the commercials which tell them how to be little tyrants in getting their own way.

I'd limit television to special movies and programs not on cable at all. Scary what it is teaching children when being used as a "sitter".

 

[Sassylassie]

Great post on this thread, Zan and Wednesday your children sound like their on the right path.

I was reading an article yesterday and the body of the story was that my Generation has raised their children anti-our-parents. My generation wanted their children to have the best of everything and want for nothing, part-time jobs were shunned because children should enjoy their youth. Sadly the out come is a generation that is being dub: The Entitled Generation, a generation with to much self-esteem and not enough work ethic. This generation are now or will be the parents of the next generation of adults. I wonder what the out come will be?

 

[pastafarian]

A good way to bring kids up is to keep them from seeing all the commercials which tell them how to be little tyrants in getting their own way.

Agreed, WC. We even had free cable at one point (Went to Rogers, told them to stop our cable; they only stopped billing us). We were too addicted to pass it up at that point.

Another month or so, and we couldn't deny the effect on #1 son (#2 was hypothetical at that time).

We made sure it was cut off. It cured me and the missus of the idiot box and the kids are definitely better for it.

They're allowed cable at Granny's and they can watch videos on weekends. #2 son gets TVO Kids and CBC Kids in the AM.

I'm watching the playoffs from time to time these days...[/quote]

 

[annabattler]

All a "good kick in the butt" teaches is that there's someone bigger than you who can hurt you.
Sure,that might stop the immediate behaviour...but has the child learned anything from it?Well,perhaps,if he's the bigger child in a situation,he can also "kick butt".
Children need to learn to make good choices for themselves....and they need to learn self-discipline. This all starts when they're very,very young and is an ongoing process, as the child tries to learn about his world,what is acceptable and what is not,what makes them feel good and what does not.

 

[Kreskin]

I don't really understand what the point of the bill is. Corrective action considered reasonable is no longer reasonable? Just what is?

Like Zan and many have said, this can't be micro managed. It's impossible to legislate common sense.

 

[FiveParadox]

This legislation is to prevent persons charged with beating their children from defending themselves by saying that it was "reasonable discipline"; at the moment, it is often difficult to convict parents of beating their children, since the defense of discipline is not easy to trump.

 

[Kreskin]

Re: RE: Adults' Capacity to Discipline Children

This legislation is to prevent persons charged with beating their children from defending themselves by saying that it was "reasonable discipline"; at the moment, it is often difficult to convict parents of beating their children, since the defense of discipline is not easy to trump.

So instead make it impossible to defend themselves? It shouldn't be easy to trump. Perhaps the lack of convictions is evidence the law works. The courts are usually pretty good and determining if something is reasonable or not.

 

[Sassylassie]

The Federal Government already has enough legislation to govern Child Abuse, and lest we forget there is Social Services-isn't that their mandate? Personally, Social Services is asleep at the wheel, just read a news paper one horrific story a week on Child Neglect and abuse. Our past Governments can't operate successfully on any given day, scandle more scandle, etc. do you want these same people dictating the Dynamics of Parenting-that is just way to much control for our Government to have.

 

[Curiosity]

Most of the lowliest ER docs can spot abuse these days.

Shouldn't be too hard to determine at first glance by a non-professional - certainly provable by experts.

Start of with a loopy law and you have to keep amending it when you find loopy loopholes in cases farther down the line. Patchwork quilting as cases are brought before the court until the language is uninterpretable.

Like I said earlier - get the people who deal with abuse in on the wording before you legislate.

That said, it should be harder than granite to interfere with a family unless there is no doubt whatsoever of abuse.

And in any investigation, no child should be offered that suggestion (that a parent is abusing him or her), until there is provable evidence.

 

[FiveParadox]

Wednesday's Child, I would suggest (with respect) that your concerns, in terms of the passage of Bill S-207 without due consideration and consultation with experts on the subject, are unfounded. The Senate of Canada has more of a tendency to investigate matters thoroughly (in particular, when it comes to matters such as these, which touch not only on justice, but on a matter of social policy) than do their counterparts in the House of Commons. I would trust that the Senators would hear from an extensive list of witnesses after second reading.

 

[Sassylassie]

WC, you hit that right on the button. I have not idea why they feel the need to enact this Legislation? Why? Sounds like Political Grand Standing?