Abuse video fuels Arab fury at West

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
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Edmonton
as i described, it was the group dynamics that were the issue with the airborne. The best solution was disbanding the regiment and starting over. Specifically, it was the organization as a whole that was the problem! My position is based on actually working with the aireborne unit. I actually had warned something like Somalia or worse was a real potential years before the Somalia incident.

You have still yet to explain how the whole unit was the problem. You utter words like group dynamics yet make no attempt to expond upon what you're saying. In short you're evading my question. From what I understand, group dynamics are neither a good thing or a bad thing. They promote cohesion, something useful in the military, and cliques, something not useful. Expond upon your argument. As for working with them, I believe you said yourself you were never a part of the Airborne, so how did you work with them? What was your role? What position were you placed in that would let you peer in to the deepest depths of the Canadian Airborne Regiment, yet not be a member of the 'Borne. And you claim to have warned against an incident like Somalia. How is that possible when the major cause of Somalia was a single person and their psychological profile? Granted issues fanned out from that, but the starting factor was Matchee.

Don't confuse discussion of group structure and dynamics with the individual traits of the members. However, as you should know, the dynamics of the group influence the behaviours of the individuals within. This is where problems can become intensified.

I will agree there, however the problems with the Airborne, as i've said time and time again occured in a single platoon in a single commando. The issues that revolved around Somalia and the problems in the Airborne were found to be largely in one Commando. So you claim that the issue would have spider webbed out to the Regiment, yet no major problems were found in the other two Commandos.

My "hippisitic": no, i am not hippisitic. I merely recognize the real nature of the military and its role.

Define that role.

Indoctorination: it begins before one is even sworn in. It extends through every facet of the military structure. You do not create "good soldiers" without it.

My swearing in consisted of me signing a piece of paper saying i'd serve in the Forces for a minimum of a three year term and that i'd be loyal to the Queen. No indotorination, no kill kill killm just sign here, *clap clap* get out.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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USA
DasFX said:
MMMike said:
So what? All the beheading videos fuel western fury at the Muslims. The difference? We're not burning down buildings, and they're not actively seeking to bring the perpetrators to justice. :twisted:

How can you compare the two? The beheading videos are done by terrorist and insurgants! I mean, that is what they do, they terrorize and resist. Violence is their caveat.

The foreign liberation forces are supposed to liberate, spread freedom, and bring peace and harmony; not toture, abuse and demean.

In a twisted sort of way, I can respect a terrorist who terrorizes more so than a liberator who terrorizes.

So let's get this straight...

Beheading by terrorist... good... you respect that.

Whacking a stone thrower with a club... bad
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
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Charcol Kid, I am beginning to think that the only Service you did for this Country was pass by a Recruiting Center. I asked a few friends who did serve with the Air Borne if your senerio was plausable and they are still laughing. Observe the Air Borne, yea sure you did.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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www.kdm.ca
RE: Abuse video fuels Ara

believe whatever you want sassy.

for what you choose to believe is irrelevent.

never forget to not just look at the message, but at the perspective of the bearer of that message. It takes quite a bit for somebody to change a bias when they have invested a fair amount into it.

In the end, the airborne was dismantled, which is what I thought should have happened.
 

zoofer

Council Member
Dec 31, 2005
1,274
2
38
Cretien had no problem disbanding 2Commando. It gave the jerk an excuse to further degrade the military.

Canada had trouble fulfilling her troop obligations in Afghanistan. Not enough soldiers. 2Commando is exactly the kind of men required in a war. Not the unarmed kind who politely question a insurgent who he is firing at before doing anything.
:roll:
 

MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
1,410
1
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Toronto
DasFX said:
MMMike said:
So what? All the beheading videos fuel western fury at the Muslims. The difference? We're not burning down buildings, and they're not actively seeking to bring the perpetrators to justice. :twisted:

How can you compare the two? The beheading videos are done by terrorist and insurgants! I mean, that is what they do, they terrorize and resist. Violence is their caveat.

The foreign liberation forces are supposed to liberate, spread freedom, and bring peace and harmony; not toture, abuse and demean.

In a twisted sort of way, I can respect a terrorist who terrorizes more so than a liberator who terrorizes.

I was actually referring more to the 'cartoon fury', which has a whole region in an uproar because the FREE PRESS published a cartoon. These people are fools. Ask the people burning flags and burning buildings: I'm willing to bet they haven't even seen the cartoons.

If you want to talk about the British soldiers - their actions were condemned by a whole nation, and there will be justice meted out. Compare that to the terrorists and suicide bombers who get schools named after them, and a bonus paid to their families.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
Cretien had no problem disbanding 2Commando. It gave the jerk an excuse to further degrade the military.

Canada had trouble fulfilling her troop obligations in Afghanistan. Not enough soldiers. 2Commando is exactly the kind of men required in a war. Not the unarmed kind who politely question a insurgent who he is firing at before doing anything.

Yup, regardless of political allegiance, every Canadian can recognize that he had little regard for the men and women in uniform.

However i'd just like to point out for educational purposes that 2 Commando was one of three commandos in the Regiment. A commando is another word for company, each Regiment has 3 companies. The fanout of the Canadian Airborne Regiment was as follows:

-Headquarters Company (actually an over-strength platoon)
-1 Commando
-2 Commando
-3 Commando
-Airborne Artillery Battery
-Airborne Field Engineer Squadron
-Airborne Signals Squadron
-Airborne Services Company

Canadian Airborne Regiment Disbandment Parade
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
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www.kdm.ca
RE: Abuse video fuels Ara

"Could you please scooch over, you're crowding my victory circle"

captian of a sinking ship, you are, with eyes wide closed.
 

DasFX

Electoral Member
Dec 6, 2004
859
1
18
Whitby, Ontario
EagleSmack said:
So let's get this straight...

Beheading by terrorist... good... you respect that.

Whacking a stone thrower with a club... bad

Of course beheading isn't good, but terrorist causing terror are not operating under false pretenses. They are doing what they say they will do.

Liberation soldiers beating, killing, and demeaning civilians is not what you would expect from people who are supposed to be a beackon of freedom, justice and peace.
 

MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
1,410
1
38
Toronto
DasFX said:
EagleSmack said:
So let's get this straight...

Beheading by terrorist... good... you respect that.

Whacking a stone thrower with a club... bad

Of course beheading isn't good, but terrorist causing terror are not operating under false pretenses. They are doing what they say they will do.

Liberation soldiers beating, killing, and demeaning civilians is not what you would expect from people who are supposed to be a beackon of freedom, justice and peace.

Das, you're applying a double standard. According to you the 'West' should be judged by the actions of a few, but the actions of a few on the other side are 'extemists' not representative of Muslims? At least be consistent.
 

ElPolaco

Electoral Member
Nov 5, 2004
271
0
16
Fruita, CO, Aztlan
www.spec-tra.com
DasFX said:
Of course beheading isn't good, but terrorist causing terror are not operating under false pretenses. They are doing what they say they will do.

Liberation soldiers beating, killing, and demeaning civilians is not what you would expect from people who are supposed to be a beackon of freedom, justice and peace.

Who are the "liberation soldiers"?
 

DasFX

Electoral Member
Dec 6, 2004
859
1
18
Whitby, Ontario
MMMike said:
Das, you're applying a double standard. According to you the 'West' should be judged by the actions of a few, but the actions of a few on the other side are 'extemists' not representative of Muslims? At least be consistent.

I never implied they were a representation of Muslims, I merely said that Terrorist terrorized, so we can't be shocked when they do such things.

Coalition soldiers are not supposed to terrorize. So when they do, we are shocked.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
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38
Edmonton
Liberation soldiers beating, killing, and demeaning civilians is not what you would expect from people who are supposed to be a beackon of freedom, justice and peace.

War is hell my friend. Lets do a history flash back shall we; The Bombing of Dresden; On February 13th 1945, 773 British and Canadian Avro-Lancaster medium bombers dropped tons upon tons of high explosives and incendiary bombs on the ancient city. On the 14th and 15th of February some 527 USAAF bombers contributed to the utter destruction of the city. In all, over 3 days Dresden was reduced to rubble, the city no longer existed. As a result of the allies "offensive operations" some 100,000 people were killed.

It has happened in the past and will happen again. If you ask me, Iraq is getting of light when one considers the magnitude of destruction the coalition COULD unleash.
 

DasFX

Electoral Member
Dec 6, 2004
859
1
18
Whitby, Ontario
Re: RE: Abuse video fuels Arab fury at West

Mogz said:
some 100,000 people were killed.

It has happened in the past and will happen again.

You make it sound to matter of fact. If Canada was at war, and 100,000 Canadian civilians were killed, would you simply brush it off?
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
You make it sound to matter of fact. If Canada was at war, and 100,000 Canadian civilians were killed, would you simply brush it off?

I never said i'd brush it off. My point was that in war casualties occur that aren't combatants. If a civilian is killed in Iraq it makes the evening news and people blame every coalition soldier serving overseas. They're deemed butchers and murders. I highlighted Dresden to show that in the past we wer emuch more insensitive to civilian casualties and coalition troops do their utmost to minimize civilians from catching fire. However as diligent as they are, they cannot reduce the risk to zero. It just won't happen. Compare Dresden to Iraq, in 3 days over 100,000 people were killed. The war has been going on for what? 4 years now? And the civilian casualty rate isn't anywhere near 100,000. The point? If the coalition wanted to they could unleash everything they had and flatten Iraq, thereby wasting every potential terroist stronghold. They dont, because they're trying to mimize casualties.