Abortion

[tibear]

Zen,

That is your personal opinion. Unfortunately, there is great debate even among pro-abortion groups whether late-term abortions should be allowed.

It is generally accepted that even though some pro-abortion groups will privately acknowledge that there should be laws to prevent an abortion on 8 or 9 month fetus' but will not acknowledge publicly because they are afraid it may lead to legal recognition of the fetus which in turn may lead to another debate as to whether 8 months is the right "time".

 

[Reverend Blair]

How many late term abortions are there, tibear? How many of those are to protect the health of the mother or because something has happened to make the fetus unviable?

According to every medical professional I've heard speak on the issue, late-term abortions are a complete non-issue that the anti-abotionists drag out in yet another attempt to turn this into an emotional issue.

 

[Twila]

Why would they perform an abortion on a 8-9month pregnant woman? The baby would survive being born at this stage. C section would ensure safety of the mother.

I think this is a big NON issue.

 

[tibear]

Here is a very interesting document published by the state of Kansas with all of the information regarding abortions that took place in the state.
http://www.kdhe.state.ks.us/hci/03itop1.pdf

The most interesting points I've found from the 2003 statistics are:
- late abortions(22 weeks or more) make up over 4% of abortions
- almost 45% of abortions are woman older than 24 years of age
- 39% of woman looking to have abortions have had previous abortions
- almost 65% of late term abortions were declared viable by the physicians performing abortion
- none of the late term abortions were to prevent the mother's death but an ambigous "prevent substantial and irreversable impairment of a major bodily function"

This is data for Kansas and I don't think it would be very different than any other jurisdiction.

Very interesting.

 

[Reverend Blair]

- none of the late term abortions were to prevent the mother's death but an ambigous "prevent substantial and irreversable impairment of a major bodily function"

That isn't ambiguous at all. It's actually quite specific...they were done for the health of the mother.

22 weeks is also not eight or nine months the way you previously claimed. It is, in fact, 5.5 months.

4% is a very small number.

Very interesting indeed...the way you twist things, I mean.

 

[tibear]

Rev,

How do I twist things by simply showing you facts???

They don't break down numbers for pregnancies longer than 22 weeks. How many are done at 23 weeks and how many are done at 35 is unknown. I never implied there were all done at 8 or 9 months, I simply stated the numbers as there were in the study.

Please stop twisting the numbers as you want, it gets very tiresome, very quickly.

As for the "substantial and irreversable impairment ..." sounds suspicious when all three hundred and some cases of "late term abortions" are deemed for the same reason. Seems like a catch all for anything from severe disability to a possible hang nail. The interesting point I was making was that NONE of the abortions was done to save the mother's life.

 

[Reverend Blair]

:roll:

 

[tibear]

Rev,

Your responses of :roll: are getting tiresome. You should really try to progress past it.

 

[Reverend Blair]

:roll: :lol: :roll:

You were clearly talking about eight and nine month fetuses, then come back with a link that lists 22+ week fetuses. We may not know how many many were at what stage, but we do know that the closer that it gets to full term the faster the curve drops.

You take a perfectly legitimate categorization and call it ambiguous because you don't like it or don't understand it. You take data from one state (not the most enlightened one either) and suggest that it applies to all states and, since we are in Canada, presumably all of Canada.

So I say again, tibear...
:roll:

 

[tibear]

RB,

I clearly indicated that it was data from Kansas, no deception on my part.

You take data from one state (not the most enlightened one either) and suggest that it applies to all states and, since we are in Canada, presumably all of Canada.

What data do you have to prove that Kansas is not "enlightened" or that it is dramatically different than any other state or Canada for that matter????

I'm simply putting forth the data that I found from a reputable source and saying that they probably wouldn't be very different than any other state.

Your right that late term abortions only make up 4% of the abortions in Kansas, which as a percentage isn't very many but as a number(over 350) is quite a few. The way that Twila and yourself were talking that in the whole of the US that they would be a handful of late term abortions and that simply isn't the case.

Rather than rolling your eyes perhaps find REAL data that contradicts the official stats I've provided.

 

[Twila]

Actually TB I just find it hard to believe that at 8-9months gestation any doctor would advice abortion since at that late stage a baby would live and that C section would take care of birthing trauma to a parent.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Yeah Twila, but didn't you know that doctors are evil baby killers, and would take perverse delight in terminating those pregnancies, even when there are viable alternatives...

...didn't you know that???

 

[Twila]

uh...no. I was going by the definition of abortion. Which says things like non viable. and a baby at 8-9months gestation is fully viable so it's not an abortion. I think they call it induced labour at that point. Completely different topic with no debate.......

so much to learn....so little time....

 

[zenfisher]

RB,

I clearly indicated that it was data from Kansas, no deception on my part.

I find it interesting Tibear ...that when I brought up adoption stats from the US...you were all over me about this being a Canadian site. Therefore, according to you, information from the US would be irrelevant.

 

[tibear]

Zen,

You'll have to refresh my memory about the adoption stats. I don't recall the situation.

As well, your generalizations about pro-life people and their attitudes towards doctors is rather juvenile and doesn't add anything to the debate.


Twila,

Your personal opinion wanted. Remember the case where the mother in Ottawa shot herself in the stomach hoping to kill her full-term baby. She wasn't successfull in killing it but there was a huge debate whether she should have been charged with attempted murder. Ultimately, she didn't charged with anything because the baby had no rights. Should she have been charged with something since the baby was clearly viable outside her body???

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: Abortion

Get with the game, tibear...

As well, your generalizations about pro-life people and their attitudes towards doctors is rather juvenile and doesn't add anything to the debate.

...those were my generalizations and juvenile attitudes, not Zen's...

...I also think that some people on this board should have had their stem cells harvested...so how do ya like them apples...

 

[tibear]

Vanni,

When your ready for a debate without the nonsense, give me a shout. :roll:

 

[Twila]

Should she have been charged with something since the baby was clearly viable outside her body???

yes, I think she should have been charged if she was full term. She also should have been sent to a pychiatric facility.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Vanni,

When your ready for a debate without the nonsense, give me a shout. :roll:

Sure tibear, post something intelligent in here, and we'll debate to your heart's content... :wink:

...until then I think I'll just stick my tongue out at you...:tongue2:

 

[tibear]

Twila,

That's the problem that we have with the current system. The pro-abortion side is so scared of giving ANY fetal recognition regardless of the scientific proof because they are afraid of what it may lead to.

In the meanwhile, victims like this child are left without any legal rights even though the vast majority of the Canadian public feels that a viable fetus should be recognized.

Instead of cautioning on the side of life, the laws(or lack thereof) kill the child.

Vanni,

Did you ever get past the 6th or 7th grade???