A Year After Saddam's Capture, Iraq's Rebels Fight On

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
Divide and Conqur again, Rick. Show the christains that they are being targeted and they will join the US in attacking Muslims. Do not forget that the insurgency is made of all sects and religions except Kurdish.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
Read what I said about the civil war. Christians fought the Muslims for 20 years to discover that they were manipulated by Israel. Now they have a hell of a life in Israel.

It does sound not credible. I agree. But it depends in the picture you have already in your head. I did not believe it at first until I was convinced by actual Iraqis.
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,645
129
63
Larnaka
I actually had a question about one of the first points stated in the article:

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Much has changed in the year since a haggard-looking Saddam Hussein was pulled from a hole in the ground and taken into custody by jubilant U.S. troops.

Was he really captured? I remember reading something about the photos and the date trees in the background being out of season. *shrugs*

In some ways it has changed for the worse.

President Bush hailed the capture as a breakthrough at the time, saying he expected his arch foe to be tried, convicted and put to death -- adding that would be up to the Iraqi courts.

Actually, thanks to the American stance on Iraq, the country has gone on a landslide down the hole since the embargos were enacted. The current situation in Iraq will just keep the state of that country on a downware spiral. It's not just changed "some ways" for the worst, but most ways. The place has become an unbearable nightmare for most, which incites terrorism and people fighting back.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
Good points Andem. Do we really know if he was captured, NO.

Is Iraq better or worse after him. Much Worse.

Does he have a big following. Yes he does.
 

Rick van Opbergen

House Member
Sep 16, 2004
4,080
0
36
The Netherlands
www.google.com
But moghrabi, in Lebanon, some 60% or so of all the inhabitants were Christian in 1975 (if I recall it correctly) - which makes the situation different from the current in Iraq, where Christians only represent some 1 or 2% of the population. And to come back on the Lebanese civil war: it was such a destructive war, which makes me think - with all respect - that there has always been something there, always some problems or tensions between all religious and ethnic groups, and possible Israeli involvement (still have to read the literature) is not enough of an explanation. According to Randa Chahal Sabbag, a Lebanese filmmaker, as well as Farid Khazan, political scientist, people in Lebanon are not actively searching for the roots of the conflicts - people just want to move on. According to Farid Khazan, this is a bad thing. ( SOURCE)
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
In short, Rick, Lebanon is very strategically situated between Israel and Syria. Syria still considers Lebanon part of the Greater Syria.

When the civil war started, the cause at that time was the Pals. I don't believe it but that was the official cause. Basically Israel had a hand to convince the Christians that the Pals are Muslims and they are going to take over this country. The fight started between the Pals and Christian Lebanese and not with the Muslim Lebanese.

Syria went in to break up the war and was obliged to defend the Muslims against the Israeli armed Christians. this is when the Muslims came to play a role in the destruction of Lebanon.

If you ask any Lebanese they will tell you that they want to move on. When I was last there I stayed in a all-Christian village. I was welcomed like one of them. At our home in Beirut, Christians come and go like it was their home.

They both know what caused the civil war and now they know better not to let others interfere with their internal affair. Lebanon looks prettier than ever and now it is again the financial center of the ME. Imagine all the gulf states money in our banks. This is why Lebanon have over 100 different banks (not branches) and it is one of the smallest countries. So may God bless my both countries - Canada and Lebanon.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
Re: RE: A Year After Saddam's Capture, Iraq's Rebels Fight O

moghrabi said:
They will kiss the feet of the americans because they were promised an autonomy from Iraq. The Kurdish people are the most hated in Iraq because they want t divide the country.

What would be so horrible about dividing the country? I've heard in past threads that the whole of middle east political borders is nothing but a farce contrived by the British and Americans at the turn of the century anyway. So why not get together with nighbouring countries and re-draw the borders so everyone can live in peace.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
Re: RE: A Year After Saddam's Capture, Iraq's Rebels Fight O

moghrabi said:
Do you like your country to be divided?

Do you see English Canadians bombing Quebec? Or vice versa? If we had a choice between losing Quebec or having car bombs blow up everyday, yeah, divide away!
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
Re: RE: A Year After Saddam's Capture, Iraq's Rebels Fight O

Just the Facts said:
moghrabi said:
Do you like your country to be divided?

Do you see English Canadians bombing Quebec? Or vice versa? If we had a choice between losing Quebec or having car bombs blow up everyday, yeah, divide away!

It is different than dividing Quebec. There is more to it than that. Your answer is so simplistic. They are fighting for survival, honor, freedom and so on. They are either oppressed by their own rulers appointed by the west or by the rulers of the west. Both ways they are oppressed.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
Re: RE: A Year After Saddam's Capture, Iraq's Rebels Fight O

moghrabi said:
It is different than dividing Quebec. There is more to it than that. Your answer is so simplistic. They are fighting for survival, honor, freedom and so on. They are either oppressed by their own rulers appointed by the west or by the rulers of the west. Both ways they are oppressed.

Divide Quebec!! The BQ would not hear of such a thing!! :wink:

Anyway, it is simplistic, but it really is simple. Why force people who don't get along to live together? Really, what's wrong with my answer? The west drew the borders, created the countries, the inhabitants resent the west for it, hate each other, and the spiral of hate and killing continues. Just let people go their separate ways and have their own states.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
The west still controls the area. It is not as easy. The west want it divided, people busy killing each other so they can take advantage of the situation for their own gains.

BTW: are you from Quebec? What is your opinion about separation?
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
Re: RE: A Year After Saddam's Capture, Iraq's Rebels Fight O

moghrabi said:
The west still controls the area. It is not as easy. The west want it divided, people busy killing each other so they can take advantage of the situation for their own gains.

BTW: are you from Quebec? What is your opinion about separation?

Maybe so but at some point people are going to have to take matters into their own hands in a positive constructive way to make a better life for themselves. You can't just go on blaming the west for all your problems for generations, after a while the blame lands square in your own lap. Iraq is a perfect example today. You can say what you want about Bush and how the war was illegal and America is the greatest threat to world peace and blah blah blah, but the Iraqi's have a tremendous opportunity staring them in the face right now...today! Sadly, many are so blinded by hate they can't see it.

I'm not from Quebec, I think separation would be a sad thing. If it's the will of the people of Quebec, however, I would not fight it. BUT, and that's a big BUT! :) I don't think they should neccessarily be able to separate with the present borders. The majority of people in the north of Quebec, primarily natives, want nothing to do with being part of an independent Quebec. Their will should be respected as well. But I think that's for another thread.
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

Council Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,142
0
36
Hide-Away Lane, Toronto
Hi! Just The Facts

I don't get it!

People talk about separation as though it was like tossing away an old car.
If Quebec ever left Canada, or any Province for that matter, it would be the end of our Nation.
People often refer to financial excuses or reasons for breaking up Canada and at the same time brag about our universal social or health care programs. If any province leaves Canada, we can forget about any social programs.
If any province chose to leave, it would mean civil war! Make no mistake about that.

And about Iraq .....

If the U.S. found it necessary to invade Canada in order to secure their fresh water or energy requirments, I would fight them tooth-and-nail. It would simply be a matter of principle and my pride as a Canadian which would drive me to kill any American I saw wandering across our International boundary.

I support whatever resistance Iraqi's carry out!

Oh! And, Moghrabi .....
I sure like your new avatar. (I stole it and saved it.)


Calm
 

Rick van Opbergen

House Member
Sep 16, 2004
4,080
0
36
The Netherlands
www.google.com
moghrabi said:
In short, Rick, Lebanon is very strategically situated between Israel and Syria. Syria still considers Lebanon part of the Greater Syria.

When the civil war started, the cause at that time was the Pals. I don't believe it but that was the official cause. Basically Israel had a hand to convince the Christians that the Pals are Muslims and they are going to take over this country. The fight started between the Pals and Christian Lebanese and not with the Muslim Lebanese.

Syria went in to break up the war and was obliged to defend the Muslims against the Israeli armed Christians. this is when the Muslims came to play a role in the destruction of Lebanon.
What is your view on the idea of a "Greater Syria"? And how strong are the claims that Israel "convinced the Christians that the Pals [...] are going to take over this country [Lebanon]"?

moghrabi said:
Do you like your country to be divided?
Although I do not have a clear stance on the fact whether the Kurds should or should not have the right to seperate from Iraq, I do not agree with your line of thinking. Would you have said the same to the Czechs in the Austrian-Hungarian Empire? Or to the Lithuanians and Turkmens in the former Soviet-Union? This argument an sich should not be a reason not to grant certain ethnic groups the rights to claim what they see as "their" land.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
They see as their land does not mean it is their land. It is not the Kurdish land to start with.

At that time, Israel had a great influence on the Christians that your country is going to be taken and islamasized. We can see that by the number of SLA who joined Israel in the fight against Pals and Muslims. Now they ended up n shacks in Israel becuase Israel reneged on supporting them.

The idea of Greater Syria to me is null and void. Every other country tries to expand. and Syria is no better.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
Paranoid Dot Calm said:
Hi! Just The Facts

I don't get it!

People talk about separation as though it was like tossing away an old car.
If Quebec ever left Canada, or any Province for that matter, it would be the end of our Nation.
People often refer to financial excuses or reasons for breaking up Canada and at the same time brag about our universal social or health care programs. If any province leaves Canada, we can forget about any social programs.
If any province chose to leave, it would mean civil war! Make no mistake about that.

And about Iraq .....

If the U.S. found it necessary to invade Canada in order to secure their fresh water or energy requirments, I would fight them tooth-and-nail. It would simply be a matter of principle and my pride as a Canadian which would drive me to kill any American I saw wandering across our International boundary.

I support whatever resistance Iraqi's carry out!

Oh! And, Moghrabi .....
I sure like your new avatar. (I stole it and saved it.)


Calm

Enjoy the Avatar.
 

Rick van Opbergen

House Member
Sep 16, 2004
4,080
0
36
The Netherlands
www.google.com
Is a majority of the Iraqi Kurds in favor of seperating the north of Iraq from the rest of the country? How strong is the feeling of Sunni Arabs and Shiite Arabs to seperate the parts where they form a majority of the population from the rest of Iraq?