A third of Brits support terror suspect torture.

Blackleaf

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Blair and the British help to fight terrorism -

A surprisingly large number of British people support the torture of terror suspects.

The finding comes at a time when Blair turned down demands for an inquiry into claims that US flights were being allowed to pass through the UK to send terror suspects abroad for torture. He says he has "no knowledge" of secret CIA flights within Europe.

In Spain and Italy, only 21 per cent and 23 per cent respectively gave their backing to the torture.

However, French and German residents gave similar responses to the UK, with 32 per cent and 30 per cent respectively. Despite opposing the war, a slightly higher percentage of the French supported torture of terror suspects than the British - 30% of Brits supported it.




13:30pm 14th December 2005





Nearly one-third of Britons support torturing suspected terrorists, according to a new survey.

The poll comes as Tony Blair refuted demands for an inquiry into claims that US flights were being allowed to pass through the UK to send terror suspects abroad for torture.

Thirty per cent of people questioned by pollsters Ipsos Mori said torture would "sometimes or often" be justified to obtain information about terrorist plots.

About two-thirds of people (62 per cent) said they would oppose allowing the US government to interrogate terror suspects secretly in this country.

Ipsos Mori managing director Sam McGuire said: "Anxiety about news reports of prisoner abuse in Iraq and around the globe has heightened public concern about the question of using torture against suspected terrorists.

"It is interesting to see that such a large group of people in the UK and Europe support torture, and it will be important to track public opinion on this issue over time to see how attitudes change as international security policies shift and develop."

The survey across nine nations revealed less support for torture in Spain and Italy, where 21 per cent and 23 per cent respectively gave their backing.

French and German residents gave similar responses to the UK, with 32 per cent and 30 per cent respectively.

Blair snubs inquiry

Meanwhile, the Prime Minister has refuted Liberal Democrat demands for an inquiry into the alleged torture flights, saying it would be "completely absurd" to investigate every US Government plane, which flew into the country.

He again insisted that the British Government was "completely and totally opposed to torture or ill-treatment in any set of circumstances".

Liberal Democrat leader Charles Kennedy demanded the probe at question time amid continuing concern over the so called policy of "rendition" of terror suspects.

Mr Blair said: "Our country is a signatory to the UN Convention against the use of torture. We will continue to uphold its provisions absolutely.

"Rendition does not simply apply in those circumstances. It can apply in other circumstances - as the Secretary of State in the US has made clear.

"They have also said - to be fair - that they are totally opposed to the use of torture or ill-treatment in any circumstances."

Mr Kennedy welcomed the Prime Minister's comments but added: "Will you acknowledge that our country, surely is under a legal and moral obligation to investigate why flights are being allowed to pass through our country for rendition purposes.

"There are full inquiries now taking place in Italy, Spain, Germany and Canada. Why not in the UK?"

Mr Blair said Foreign Secretary Jack Straw's parliamentary answer earlier this week said careful research by officials had been unable to identify "'any occasion since September 11, 2001, or earlier in the Bush administration when we received a request for permission by the US for rendition through UK territory or airspace ...'"

He said there was a "whole series of reasons" for flights coming in from the US.

"We have visits from people from the US Government the entire time.

"The Liberal Democrats are quite extraordinary sometimes. The idea that we should be investigating every time a US Government plane flies into this country is completely absurd."

dailymail.co.uk
 

no1important

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RE: A third of Brits supp

Britain ran post-WWII torture camp: report

A teaser:

LONDON — Britain ran a post-Second World War interrogation camp in which prisoners were systematically beaten, tortured and starved to death, a newspaper reported Saturday.

The report in the British newspaper the Guardian cited documents recently released under the Freedom of Information Act that described the suffering of some of 372 men and 44 women detained at the centre in Bad Nenndorf, a spa town in northwest Germany occupied by the British after the conflict.

Many of the detainees had been former Nazi party members or former members of the SS, who had been rounded up to prevent any insurgency, the Guardian said. However, other detainees included businessmen and industrialists who had flourished under Adolf Hitler's regime. [/url]

Disgraceful. :evil: Bastards.
 

jimmoyer

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After what the allies saw the Germans do and
how the enemy German SS was quite demonized,
it was considered in the context of that emotional
time to think "they" had it coming.

But every sin comes out and years later the world
looks at that time quite differently.

The bombing of Dresden, deemed necessary during war,
now appears to be not as necessary.

If you ever are in an argument, do you find yourself
becoming emotionally like the person you fight ?

Policeman dealing with crime everyday --- it does
something to them eventually. Maybe instead of being
demoted, they just might let a potential perp get
away ?

Bureaucracy learns from the popular outrage not
to take any chances ----- this is the inevitable outcome
of all our outrage.

But we have no choice but to insist Torture has no
benefit.

And yet watch how the people charged with the
job of security have to define what levels of pressure
constitutes TORTURE.

That is a wrenching debate.

It's a black hole.
 

Colpy

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I am shocked, but not surprized, that so many support the use of torture.

If it ain't happening to you........

I would also like to see a debate on what constitutes torture.

Does a prisoner being hooded for hours constitute torture?

Is solitary confinement for long periods torture?

Is sensory deprivation torture?

Is sleep deprivation torture? If so, how much sleep should a prisoner be allowed?

There is a huge gray area here.
 

no1important

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Re: RE: A third of Brits support terror suspect torture.

Colpy said:
I am shocked, but not surprized, that so many support the use of torture.

If it ain't happening to you........

I would also like to see a debate on what constitutes torture.

Does a prisoner being hooded for hours constitute torture?

Is solitary confinement for long periods torture?

Is sensory deprivation torture?

Is sleep deprivation torture? If so, how much sleep should a prisoner be allowed?

There is a huge gray area here.

No gray area at all, all the things you listed are considered torture. You are not allowed to do any of the above to POW's.

Art. 11 - Protection of persons

1. The physical or mental health and integrity of persons who are in the power of the adverse Party or who are interned, detained or otherwise deprived of liberty as a result of a situation referred to in Article 1 shall not be endangered by any unjustified act or omission. Accordingly, it is prohibited to subject the persons described in this Article to any medical procedure which is not indicated by the state of health of the person concerned and which is not consistent with generally accepted medical standards which would be applied under similar medical circumstances to persons who are nationals of the Party conducting the procedure and who are in no way deprived of liberty.

2. It is, in particular, prohibited to carry out on such persons, even with their consent: (a) physical mutilations; (b) medical or scientific experiments; (c) removal of tissue or organs for transplantation, except where these acts are justified in conformity with the conditions provided for in paragraph 1.

3. Exceptions to the prohibition in paragraph 2 (c) may be made only in the case of donations of blood for transfusion or of skin for grafting, provided that they are given voluntarily and without any coercion or inducement, and then only for therapeutic purposes, under conditions consistent with generally accepted medical standards and controls designed for the benefit of both the donor and the recipient.

4. Any wilful act or omission which seriously endangers the physical or mental health or integrity of any person who is in the power of a Party other than the one on which he depends and which either violates any of the prohibitions in paragraphs 1 and 2 or fails to comply with the requirements of paragraph 3 shall be a grave breach of this Protocol.
 

jimmoyer

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"Any wilful act or omission which seriously endangers the physical or mental health or integrity of any person.."
----------------------------------------------------------------

That appears to be clear.

Perhaps questioning the detainee could cause mental
turmoil ?

Perhaps not scheduling permission to question
could unduly upset the integrity of the detainee?

Perhaps only certain hours for questioning, if allowed itself is allowed, could upset the mental balance of the detainee ?

Perhaps insinuation or ugly tone of voice would
hurt the mental health of a detainee ?

Perhaps refusing a practicing Christian a Bible would
also constitute a change in what he or she is used to ?

Perhaps limiting the number of friends and family
visitations qualify as torture ?

Perhaps bargaining for any extra privileges is
coercive and therefore deemed as torture ?

Perhaps challenging a statement by the detainee
is mentally cruel ?
 

Colpy

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Yeah.

That is all open to interpretation, especially considering the wording...."Any wilful act or omission which seriously endangers the physical or mental health......"

I don't think any of the things above "seriously" threaten the mental or physical health of a prisoner if used in moderation.

Not that I would necessarily support some of them. I am undecided, which is why I thought this debate might be interesting.
 

jimmoyer

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I'm curious about those who have not looked into
this hateful task of defining what Torture is what their
answers are to some of the questions I posed.

Moderation is a fine, interpretive idea, but the people in charge have to delineate these
parameters for those handling the detainees.

Perhaps a dilineation of the more vulgar evil methods
can be clearly stated, but once done with that, you start
to approach some grey areas.
 

Colpy

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I laughed when I saw a piece on prisoners held at the US base at Guantanimo (sp).

Included in the list of "tortures" were Muslim men being interogated by very scantily clad female officers (pick me! pick me! I want to be tortured next!), stripping the prisoners naked (in front of other male prisoners), and the misuse of the Koran in front of prisoners.

At first, I thought they were joking.

I would bet, JM, some people are going through your list of "tortures" nodding their heads at each item.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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Part of that behavior at Guantanimo was no doubt due
to our people laughing at the cultural differences
of their detainees, but overall the more subtle and
powerful method of leaving them alone with
decent treatment would have had a whole other
psychological effect.

Another part of our behavior was the pressure
from the leaders to get information by any means
necessary.

It appears scantily clad women have done that to us
all.