A small step toward First Nations accountability

[CDNBear]

Well, at least our "respect" is mutual.....actually, it isn't because of the fact that it is my tit and you are one of the leeches.

Although it's an insinuation, one I'm sure you will likely run from now...

I have said many times. Under the Treaty my people have. I live off of and work off of the rez, so I pay all taxes, I have a Canadian Passport and have served in the Canadian Armed Forces.

I am no leech.

But thank you for proving me right, yet again, lil Joe.

Funny how I'm a thought cop, and all the other silly labels you have tried to apply, because I have an opinion of Islam, that you disagree with, because it would seem to generalize the whole of the Muslim community.

Yet here you are, generalizing the whole of Canada's Native community, as leeches, on the gov't tit. And you wonder why I question your cognitive and comprehension skills? Are you aware of your moral relativism? Your hypocrisy? Your ignorance? You inconsistency?

You make this far to easy.

It's massive news, it's about accountability. That's how democracy works, and aboriginal reserves don't have democracy.

The Haudenosaunee have the longest running and oldest Participatory Democracy on the planet. One, that was the model the US based theirs on.

We do have Democracy. It has become corrupted by greed, nepotism and Gov't interference.

"Traditional" cultures don't want it.

I have a very traditional mind set, and I want it. Badly!

But being in Canada, which is a democracy, there is constant pressure on for improved practices from aboriginals.

I don't think there is enough pressure.

Now it will take some followup by the media to keep the pressure on.

Very true.

 

[Cannuck]

I have said many times. Under the Treaty my people have. I live off of and work off of the rez, so I pay all taxes, I have a Canadian Passport and have served in the Canadian Armed Forces.

I am no leech.

Irrelevant. I'm talking about your "Nation" Since you identify yourself as one of the leeches, you is one.

But thank you for proving me right, yet again, lil Joe.

It's funny how you are comparing me to Joey considering you and he are the only ones that have run to the mods when I said something you didn't like.

You make this far to easy.

 

[gerryh]

even though the Haudenosaunee are recognized as having one of the oldest participatory democracy's in the world, they are not the only First Nations people in Canada that is under treaty. Nepotism is a real problem all across the board as well as the appearance of democracy when in reality there is no true democracy.

As the OP title says, this IS only a small first step towards accountability. It's unfortunate that it is taking an act of Parliament rather than a grassroots movement from those that it directly effects....... and no cannuck, that would not be the general Canadian population that is effected.

 

[CDNBear]

Irrelevant. I'm talking about your "Nation" Since you identify yourself as one of the leeches, you is one.

Keep proving me right. It only weakens your credibility and argument.

But to quote you, with appropriate context and everything...

You should leave the discussion here to those of us with or heads outside our rectums.

It's funny how you are comparing me to Joey considering you and he are the only ones that have run to the mods when I said something you didn't like.

You made that erroneous claim before. I gave the Mods my public, written consent to disprove my contention, that I made no such report.

Have you a quote from a Mod proving your false accusation to be true?

But don't let those facts deter you from making the same false statements over and over, or anything. Besides, this only goes to support my opinion of your limited cognitive skills.

You make this far to easy.

What? I make it easy for you to make stuff up and expose you for the bigot you pretend not to be?

I'll take that credit.

even though the Haudenosaunee are recognized as having one of the oldest participatory democracy's in the world, they are not the only First Nations people in Canada that is under treaty.

Correct. And the treaties vary from Nation to Nation.

Nepotism is a real problem all across the board as well as the appearance of democracy when in reality there is no true democracy.

Agreed!

As the OP title says, this IS only a small first step towards accountability. It's unfortunate that it is taking an act of Parliament rather than a grassroots movement from those that it directly effects.......

Very true.

Which is why I'm watching my communities news sources.

When I go up to Wahta, on Tuesday. I'll get a feel for what they think there. But there we're talking about a reserve with a strong business base, that funds a great deal of the programs and infrastructure growth.

But hey, you know how us leeches are. ;-)

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

The Haudenosaunee have the longest running and oldest Participatory Democracy on the planet. One, that was the model the US based theirs on.

We do have Democracy. It has become corrupted by greed, nepotism and Gov't interference.

I have a very traditional mind set, and I want it. Badly!

I don't think there is enough pressure.

Very true.

To say traditional societies anywhere in the world had democracy is simply not true. Men had all the economic, religious and political power and women did what they were told. Men farmed, hunted, fished and were the warriers; women did basket weaving and had babies. People lived short, tough, often very nasty lives and elections and equality wasn't part of their vocabulary.

 

[gerryh]

To say traditional societies anywhere in the world had democracy is simply not true. Men had all the economic, religious and political power and women did what they were told. Men farmed, hunted, fished and were the warriers; women did basket weaving and had babies. People lived short, tough, often very nasty lives and elections and equality wasn't part of their vocabulary.

You have no idea what you are talking about. It would be best for you to just STFU, listen, and learn.

 

[CDNBear]

To say traditional societies anywhere in the world had democracy is simply not true. Men had all the economic, religious and political power and women did what they were told.

The Haudenosaunee were a matriarchal society. And as I have said, a democracy. Of such significance and impressive nature, that the Founding Fathers used it as a model for the US Constitution.

Men farmed, hunted, fished and were the warriers; women did basket weaving and had babies. People lived short, tough, often very nasty lives and elections and equality wasn't part of their vocabulary.

In some Nations, sure. In the Haudenosaunee, not so much.

 

[Mowich]

It would be wondeful to think that this bill might finally spell the end to the unholy alliance that is the AFN. Saying that, I realize that not all chiefs are as greedy and self-serving as others, however, it is long past time for every single one of them to either get with the program or be kicked out by their reserves.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/03/02/john-ivison-a-small-step-toward-first-nations-accountability/

"The AFN claims that the media has sensationalized the story by focusing on the exceptions rather than the rule. It claims the average salary for First Nations elected officials is $36,845. If this is the case, it is hard to see why the chiefs object to sharing the information, as every other public official in Canada is obliged to do.

The Conservatives should build on their success and introduce even broader reforms. This is an issue that has been an irritant for successive Canadian governments. In 2002, Liberal Indian Affairs Minister Robert Nault attempted to reform the Indian Act and introduce a First Nations Governance Act that would have created a framework for financial management and administration. Mr. Nault’s goal was to make native reserves more accountable and democratic – what he called an “interim step toward self-government”. However, the proposed legislation was opposed by the AFN because — surprise, surprise — it said Mr. Nault had failed to consult with the chiefs. The bill was killed by Paul Martin, in order to secure the AFN’s support for his leadership."

 

[CDNBear]

It would be wondeful to think that this bill might finally spell the end to the unholy alliance that is the AFN.

Holy CRAP!!! Where have you been hiding!!!

I've been saying for years!!!

Saying that, I realize that not all chiefs are as greedy and self-serving as others, however, it is long past time for every single one of them to either get with the program or be kicked out by their reserves.

Preach on!!!

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

The Haudenosaunee were a matriarchal society. And as I have said, a democracy. Of such significance and impressive nature, that the Founding Fathers used it as a model for the US Constitution.

In some Nations, sure. In the Haudenosaunee, not so much.

Nonsense. Since I live in the modern world, a democracy means a free media, independent judiciary and ballot box elections. They had none of that.

Governments and political systems are not all democractic. There are governments that are dictatorships, some are monarchies with aristocrats, both of which have low levels of wide public poltical participation. Tradition and democracy don't mix very well and you would be better of thinking that democracy is a very modern enterprise. Even 200 years ago, Britain had rotten boroughs where only a few people voted, and the masses did not. And many thought the monarch was divine-which meant authority from an invisible god like entity.

 

[petros]

Hell hath no furry like kookum scorned.

 

[Cannuck]

Even 200 years ago, Britain had rotten boroughs where only a few people voted, and the masses did not. And many thought the monarch was divine-which meant authority from an invisible god like entity.

Don't forget the House of Lords (AKA the Senate) which was a check on the commoners so they didn't go and do something foolish. Forgive CB, he has a myopic view of what "his people" were and weren't and he falsely assumes that if you aren't one of "his people" you couldn't possibly know anything about them.

 

[gerryh]

:roll:

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Don't forget the House of Lords (AKA the Senate) which was a check on the commoners so they didn't go and do something foolish. Forgive CB, he has a myopic view of what "his people" were and weren't and he falsely assumes that if you aren't one of "his people" you couldn't possibly know anything about them.

And in Canada today we have an unelected House of Lords, woops, an unelected senate, appointed by the PM and his extended politcal family of cronies. Old habits die hard.

 

[CDNBear]

Nonsense. Since I live in the modern world, a democracy means a free media, independent judiciary and ballot box elections. They had none of that.

Since you obviously haven't a clue what the definition of democracy, I guess we can agree to disagree.

Governments and political systems are not all democractic. There are governments that are dictatorships, some are monarchies with aristocrats, both of which have low levels of wide public poltical participation. Tradition and democracy don't mix very well and you would be better of thinking that democracy is a very modern enterprise.

No, I'm better off having an excellent grasp of history and what a democracy is.

Even 200 years ago, Britain had rotten boroughs where only a few people voted, and the masses did not. And many thought the monarch was divine-which meant authority from an invisible god like entity.

That's great, but we aren't talking about Britain. We're talking about the Haudenosaunee, who have had the longest running and oldest participatory democracy in history. And was the basis of the US Constitution, as credited by Congress.

You can believe what you want, the very real fact remains, you are incorrect sir.

Oldest Living Participatory Democracy on Earth

The Six Nations: Oldest Living Participatory Democracy on Earth

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/history/54236-six-nations-oldest-living-participatory.html

Iroquois Constitution

THE DOCUMENTS THAT BIND US

Haudenosaunee Impact Recognized by Congress | Oneida Indian Nation | Sovereignty

Don't forget the House of Lords (AKA the Senate) which was a check on the commoners so they didn't go and do something foolish. Forgive CB, he has a myopic view of what "his people" were and weren't and he falsely assumes that if you aren't one of "his people" you couldn't possibly know anything about them.

When you can't formulate a reasoned factual rebuttle, just follow Cannuck's template!!

What an utter load of shyte, without a single scrap of evidence.

Just more lil Joe blathering, because you have failed to present a valid argument, time and time again. And everytime you accuse me of something, you get proven wrong, without ever once conceding to fact.

Your schtick is actually getting rather pathetic. Especially considering the evidence that I just presented DTM. Which is evidence you have ignored in the past. So feel free to keep the blinders on.

Gawd forbid you develop enough male fortitude to concede to something your were wrong about...

 

[gerryh]

Since you obviously haven't a clue what the definition of democracy, I guess we can agree to disagree.

No, I'm better off having an excellent grasp of history and what a democracy is.

That's great, but we aren't talking about Britain. We're talking about the Haudenosaunee, who have had the longest running and oldest participatory democracy in history. And was the basis of the US Constitution, as credited by Congress.

You can believe what you want, the very real fact remains, you are incorrect sir.

What an utter load of shyte, without a single scrap of evidence.

Just more lil Joe blathering, because you have failed to present a valid argument, time and time again.

Your schtick is actually getting rather pathetic.

Oldest Living Participatory Democracy on Earth

The Six Nations: Oldest Living Participatory Democracy on Earth

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/history/54236-six-nations-oldest-living-participatory.html

Iroquois Constitution

THE DOCUMENTS THAT BIND US

Haudenosaunee Impact Recognized by Congress | Oneida Indian Nation | Sovereignty

How many times do you plan on linking this before you realize that the brain dead are, exactly that, brain dead and incapable of learning anything. The other thing is, the elitists will refuse to acknowledge that the early "savages" might have had a better system of government then was available then or, possibly, now.

 

[CDNBear]

How many times do you plan on linking this before you realize that the brain dead are, exactly that, brain dead and incapable of learning anything.

I know that was a rhetorical question GH, but in this case, I'm not trying to educate anyone. I have hope for DTM, but Cannuck has been served the same thing so many times, he should know it off by heart, by now.

I'm not comfortable calling him a racist for being wilfully blind to the facts that disprove his narrow minded bigoted notions. But he's pretty damned close if you ask me.

The other thing is, the elitists will refuse to acknowledge that the early "savages" might have had a better system of government then was available then or, possibly, now.

Of course, accepting that would force them to look at Natives as equals, instead of just leeches.

 

[Cannuck]

I'm not comfortable calling him a racist for being wilfully blind to the facts that disprove his narrow minded bigoted notions. But he's pretty damned close if you ask me.

LOL...I believe all people are created equal. Our whole approach to aboriginals is race based and it is why I have such a problem with it. As I've said numerous times before, you can't seem to grasp the concept and you accuse me of having cognitive issues....too funny.

Unlike you, I believe my race is irrelevant and, unlike you, I have never used the term "my people". That would be racist imo.

 

[CDNBear]

LOL...I believe all people are created equal.

I actually believe you there. Which is why I was loath to actually apply the label. Which of course is something that separates us. I actually amass the evidence, so I can prove it, before I say it.

Our whole approach to aboriginals is race based and it is why I have such a problem with it.

No it isn't. It's contractual. The Natives found here could have been Caucasian and the contracts would have been similar, if not the same.

Claiming it's race based, is a cop out.

Is your mortgage race based? Your car loan?

As I've said numerous times before, you can't seem to grasp the concept and you accuse me of having cognitive issues....

It's not that I can't grasp it, it's simply false and you have failed to support it every time you've been challenged to do so. You usually pick some other comment from my posts to latch on to, diverting the topic, so you don't have to defend your error with any real or rational argument.

Which of course is why I accuse you of cognitive issues.

...too funny.

Actually, I find your predictable actions pathetic and childish. But that's just an opinion, I can actually support, unlike yours...;-)

Unlike you, I believe my race is irrelevant and, unlike you,

Again, a false unsupported claim. I am proud of my heritage, all of it, European and Native. I'm owed nothing other then that which is contractually obligated by the Crown, I work for my money.

As the people who made contracts with the Crown, we are given something, that has been contractually obligated. That's no more race based then you applying for a mortgage.

I have never used the term "my people". That would be racist imo.

Of course it would, you aren't intelligent enough to understand the context in which I use it. And of course you would have to ignore the countless times I've stated my devout patriotism for Canada, and the fact that I actually served my Nation, Canada.

But hey, if you think it gives your failed argument legs, have at it lil Joe.

 

[Cannuck]

No it isn't. It's contractual.

No, you believe it is contractual. I don't. That is the crux of our disagreement. Since your feeble attempt at debate is to provide what you think is some proof of your position and then to question my cognitive skills, I've long since given up trying to have a reasonable discussion with you.