A Federalist Country Demands Parties In Several Provinces, Dump The BQ

[Machjo]

Oh I see, you see democracy as more important than Canada. I see Canada as more important and potentially vulnerable. Live in an Asian country for a while and you will realize how important your own country is, a place you call home, a place you understand, you speak the language, where people expect don't you to be gone in a year or two. Oh yeah, the outside world can be hostile, them and us is present out there, more so than in Canada.

I have lived in an Asian country for awhile. I'd visited Urumqi too in 2001, that place that's been on the news recently in China. And guess what. When was in Urumqi, I felt like I was right back in Montreal, same divisions. Like Montreal, it's a bilingual city. Like Montreal, the minority ethnic group feels threatened by the majority ethnic group's cultural hegemony.

Unlike Montreal, they don't have real control against this encroachment. In the 1960s, when English was clearly the majority language in Montreal and growing, the French Quebecers had the political clout to impose Billa 22 and 101 to protect their language from further encroachment. Xinjiang lacked that clout, as the provincial government is mainly Han-dominated. So guess what. Whereas French Quebecers could fight politically, the Uighurs have no choice but to fight more aggressively on the streets.

In that respect, we can compare the Uighurs to the Mohawks in the Oka Crisis, wehre again they had no real power to defend their own cultura and so had to take a more aggressive approach.

Yes, we have a fundamental difference in viewpoints born of experience. I see the BQ as a danger, some posters have mentioned there is rage in the Quebec against Canada. So I don't want to give separatism a chance to pop. The yuppie armchair central Cdn federalists are willing to take this chance.

I speak both languages, and read the news in both too. I've lived in and out of Quebec, and I can say that Quebec and English Canada are equal dangers to Quebec separation. It takes two to tango. In the end, if either side coulr propose an idea they could both accept, this problem would have been solved long ago. The fact that neither side has done so yet makes both sides equally guilty and responsible for this mess.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I have lived in an Asian country for awhile. I'd visited Urumqi too in 2001, that place that's been on the news recently in China. And guess what. When was in Urumqi, I felt like I was right back in Montreal, same divisions. Like Montreal, it's a bilingual city. Like Montreal, the minority ethnic group feels threatened by the majority ethnic group's cultural hegemony.

Unlike Montreal, they don't have real control against this encroachment. In the 1960s, when English was clearly the majority language in Montreal and growing, the French Quebecers had the political clout to impose Billa 22 and 101 to protect their language from further encroachment. Xinjiang lacked that clout, as the provincial government is mainly Han-dominated. So guess what. Whereas French Quebecers could fight politically, the Uighurs have no choice but to fight more aggressively on the streets.

In that respect, we can compare the Uighurs to the Mohawks in the Oka Crisis, wehre again they had no real power to defend their own cultura and so had to take a more aggressive approach.

I speak both languages, and read the news in both too. I've lived in and out of Quebec, and I can say that Quebec and English Canada are equal dangers to Quebec separation. It takes two to tango. In the end, if either side coulr propose an idea they could both accept, this problem would have been solved long ago. The fact that neither side has done so yet makes both sides equally guilty and responsible for this mess.

Oh please, every country is extremely different, with a different history and culture. That is culture 101.

Urumqi like Montreal, what a howler!!! At least 164 people were killed there recently in vicious riots and govt attacks. Oh yeah, just the same as Canada.

Business in the 1960s like Eaton's should have told the Quebec govt to piss off when it came to the language laws. Eaton's became Eaton and feebly caved. I read that the Quebec govt would have retreated over this. They had and have no backbone those corporate yuppies, all they care about is money, not Canada.

 

[Machjo]

Oh please, every country is extremely different, with a different history and culture. That is culture 101.

Urumqi like Montreal, what a howler!!! At least 164 people were killed there recently in vicious riots and govt attacks. Oh yeah, just the same as Canada.

Business in the 1960s like Eaton's should have told the Quebec govt to piss off when it came to the language laws. Eaton's became Eaton and feebly caved. I read that the Quebec govt would have retreated over this. They had and have no backbone those corporate yuppies, all they care about is money, not Canada.

You obviously didn't read everything. I later said 'unlike Montreal' to point out a difference that explained the violence. In Quebec, majority French control of the Quebec government serves as an outlet, with the Anglophones having majority control of the Federal Parlaiment. So there is some balance. Xinjiang has no such balance. Government, be it central,provincial, or local, is unquestionably Han-dominated.

 

[Machjo]

I could compare Urumqi to Montreal, or even Victoria, in other ways too. I remember one day in teh Uighur market asking the price of food in Mandarin. The lady, seeing that my skin colour was like hers (i.e. white), assumed I was a local and expressed her anger at my having spoken Mandarin.

In Victoria BC, I'd come across something similar with one man telling me in my face that he didn't like French people as soon as he'd found out that I'd gone to a French-medium schoo, even though our conversation was quite friendly up to just a second earlier.

In Montreal, though I've never witnessed it myself, I've heard of stories of people refusing to speak English, or alternatively, French. There are legitimate comparisons. I wasn't saying that they were identical in all respects.

 

[Machjo]

This reminds me:

Speak White

 

[Machjo]

'Speak White' is a term English-speakers sometimes used against French speakers, more common in the past, though I'd heard it used once in Ottawa, and a friend of mine had heard it a few times in the Province of Quebec addressed to himself for seaking French.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I could compare Urumqi to Montreal, or even Victoria, in other ways too. I remember one day in teh Uighur market asking the price of food in Mandarin. The lady, seeing that my skin colour was like hers (i.e. white), assumed I was a local and expressed her anger at my having spoken Mandarin.

In Victoria BC, I'd come across something similar with one man telling me in my face that he didn't like French people as soon as he'd found out that I'd gone to a French-medium schoo, even though our conversation was quite friendly up to just a second earlier.

In Montreal, though I've never witnessed it myself, I've heard of stories of people refusing to speak English, or alternatively, French. There are legitimate comparisons. I wasn't saying that they were identical in all respects.

You can compare to a degree the position of minorities to majorities in many countries. Resentment is often quite similar. in Vancouver you can come across people who don't like anything Asian, they say it's fine but they don't mean it.

I mean the political situation in countries is quite different and that takes time to understand.

 

[Machjo]

You can compare to a degree the position of minorities to majorities in many countries. Resentment is often quite similar. in Vancouver you can come across people who don't like anything Asian, they say it's fine but they don't mean it.

I mean the political situation in countries is quite different and that takes time to understand.

Of coure. I was just pointing out that the ethnic situation is similar none-the-less, though the politics will be different. I was pointing out too though how the democratic vote can serve as a pressure valve in Canada, whereas Xinjiang doesn't have that.

 

[Polygong]

Oh I see, you see democracy as more important than Canada.

Without democracy there is no Canada.

Hate the process all you want, but this is one of the most prosperous and socially stable countries in the world, and these fundamental principles are the reason why.

 

[AnnaG]

Mob rule does work sometimes and in some ways, yup. Canada isn't a democracy, though, ii's a democratic oligarchy.

 

[Machjo]

Mob rule does work sometimes and in some ways, yup. Canada isn't a democracy, though, ii's a democratic oligarchy.

I fully agree that democracy can be abused. That's why though I admire certain components of democracy, I don't consider myself a democrat to the core. I do recognize that at times the democratic will of the majority, when it degenerates into the tyranny of the majority, or as you so nicely put it, mob rule, it must cede to justice.

 

[ironsides]

How about we change what you said just a little bit: Change to: I do recognize that at times the democratic will of the majority, when it degenerates into the tyranny of the minority, or as you so nicely put it, mob rule, it must cede to justice.

 

[AnnaG]

How about we change what you said just a little bit: Change to: I do recognize that at times the democratic will of the majority, when it degenerates into the tyranny of the minority, or as you so nicely put it, mob rule, it must cede to justice.

Either or works for me. lol Ban tyanny!!!

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Without democracy there is no Canada.

Hate the process all you want, but this is one of the most prosperous and socially stable countries in the world, and these fundamental principles are the reason why.

Excellent point, and I would largely agree. But they are different words and they mean different things. Think of govts, they can be autocratic, communist, fascist, republican (Islamic even), or democratic. We always want Canada to be democratic. But it is arrogance to think because Canada has always been democratic, it always will be.

This is the opinion in a young country. Much older countries did not adopt democracy and did not have a parliament from the word go, in 1867. We did. Lucky us.

Not too long ago, intelligent people in Canada were considering allowing Sharia law in Canada. A medieval, archaic and backward form of governance.

The BQ are worse than the Sharia fanatics because they want a separate country, they want to dismember Canada. Not all viewpoints are good in my books.

 

[Liberalman]

Canadians like a good bloc party

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Canadians like a good bloc party

Oh, to be so blase about it all. A great luxury.

Perhaps a J Edgar Hoover fan who said he would rather have his enemies pissing in the tent than pissing on the tent. Never did like the guy.

 

[Liberalman]

I heard Hoover wore a dress and liked it doggie style and being true to his name he was a good ssuck

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I heard Hoover wore a dress and liked it doggie style and being true to his name he was a good ssuck

Yeah, he was the kind of guy who wanted to keep his life a secret, while exposing others.

The big sucking sound did not always come from Mexico.

 

[Liberalman]

In the history of American presidents was did they have at least one leader that did not sexually fool around in the white house?

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

In the history of American presidents was did they have at least one leader that did not sexually fool around in the white house?

Democrats are the fun prezs, Clinton, Kennedy and even Carter who lusted but did little. Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan and Bush, not fun.