We have a problem, then. Science tells us the world is 14 billion years old and earth about 4 billion. Genesis says God created the world in 6 days. Given each God year is equal to a thousand years. The world according to the Bible is less than 10,000 years old. Now that is an irreconcilable difference.
A Eucatastrophe - Life WIth God
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We have a problem, then. Science tells us the world is 14 billion years old and earth about 4 billion. Genesis says God created the world in 6 days. Given each God year is equal to a thousand years. The world according to the Bible is less than 10,000 years old. Now that is an irreconcilable difference.
How much proof are they expecting to find when the fulfilment of the scattering mentioned in De:4:30 was fulfilled in 70AD according to Luke:21:24. The time of the Gentiles came into effect as Temples changed and any blood sacrifice was looked on by Gos as being an abomination from the day of the cross.
Isa:66:3:
He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man;
he that sacrificeth a lamb,
as if he cut off a dog's neck;
he that offereth an oblation,
as if he offered swine's blood;
he that burneth incense,
as if he blessed an idol.
Yea,
they have chosen their own ways,
and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
During that time being gathered is by reading the book until you have a certain level and then your faith is shown by how you conduct yourself in public in deeds towards those lower on the social scale rather than anything that comes out of your mouth. Re:11 picks that up when there is 3 1/2 years left in the time of the Gentiles and in this time the two witnesses are 'proof through works' as they would be equal to Moses and Aaron. By the time they finish their 3 1/2 years 1/3 of the people on earth are believers and 2/3 are not. What that actually means is it would bring up about 6 different passages that reference it and those passages 'fill in the blanks'. if blanks still exist then another verse supplies the answer. The rider of the 1st seal is God and the White Horse is the Holy Spirit. The time is when the prophecies begin to unfold. The bruise to the heel had 1260 days and the bruise to the head will also have 1260 before the event happens. We could argue for pages and pages and have many different references or take the verse below to be the 'fill in the blank' one and that means Christ is the method the rider uses to complete the prophecies that the seals stand for. In reality it would be Christ throwing coals from the altar to the earth. The alter is the one in Re:4 and it came valid in 70AD when the stone temple was taken down. The counting in Re:11 is anybody who says the Lord's prayer and repents their sins, that is valid until 1 hour after the 2 witnesses are resurrected back to life.
In this case no proof should be found, if proof could be found then faith without proof ceases to be the gathering method. However that doesn't mean the OT cannot be looked at as being from the mouth of a supernatural being. One author using 40 Scribes over a long period of time. As mentioned earlier the first example is the length of creation when mirrored against science as we know it. How do you get from 4,000BC to 4,000,000,000BC? In a place wher a day is equal to 1,000 yeas you would put a xerio in the proper column and the other numbers would move to the left. The end of day 7 was 4,000,BC, the end of day 6 was 40,000BC, the end of day 5 was 400,000BC, the end of day 4, was 4,000,000BC, the end of day 3 was 40,000,000BC, the end of day 2 was 400,000,000BC and the end of day 1 was 4,000,000,000BC. Powers of 10 on the first page from God, verification can be had by looking at the sequence and how that fits to out current knowledge.
Day 1 ended with the earth as a molten ball of rock and the moon and the sun existed and that day would have seen the first time earth experienced a day/night cycle. 3.6B year later day 2 ended and the earth had water in vapor and liquid form. Here the Bible would be more correct in that the next phase saw forests exist before the seas formed and science would comfirm that air get colder the higher in elevation you go and it would be the tops of mountains that got moisture first and moss would have taken advantage of the moisture and the temp and the CO2 in the air, from 400MYA to 40MYA plants added O2 to the air and then the seas began to form, that was the end of day 3. Day 4 ended in 4,000,000BC and the earths rotation changed from what it was at the end of day 1 and slowed to what we know it as today as far as years and months and days. That part is not usually included as being part of what sets the Bible apart. You can also play with the numbers in revelation and you come up with the earth being melted 3.6B years from now when the suns goes out of control. Ge:1 also hints that birds fell into the water and got so fat they could not fly so over millions of years they adapted to that by becoming whales. Adaptation verses species jumps as air water and land beings do not change that aspect.
Noah's flood was 22ft of water in 40 days. On the high hills and mountains it fell as snow or freezing rain and that took 5 months to melt after the rains stopped 40 days after they started. The amount of water needed to rain on 1/4 of the eath would lower the remaining 3/4 by 5.5ft in this case. Science shows that the oceans have risen more than 400 ft since the ice began to melt. Id science did an honest mock-up of what the weather patterns would be they might find it is the desert regions of the world that disappear by turning green rather than their current doom version.
If God really wanted to mess with man's head the 360 day flood would gave been a mirror of the ice-age that lasted 360,000 years. 40,000 years of rains becoming ice on land where the oceans lowered 550ft. 150,000 years later the tops of the mountains could be seen, that would explain the 'confusion' quite nicely.
The exodus is quite clear about what waters were parted and it is the narrows of the Bittern Lakes that saw the water blown to the west by a strong wind and then it stopped. Look at any flooding vids, it doesn't have to be very deep to mess you up. Moses travelled light so he could walk on sand, the soldiers had to use the roads. The map helps as the names are provided.
The Bible's flood was via rain, since that only accounts for a rise of 5ft there are many flood stories. How many were like the ones that created the Pacific Northwest Scab-lands. For the Mid-east recreating the weather patterns for the ice age could show the bible has it's facts right. The river in Eze:47 could be figured out and converted to yearly rainfall and the Dead Sea would be filled up with enough rain water that it could support fresh water fish. That is supposed to be restored for the 1,000 year reign and that means the garden was like that also and if the garden area of Ge:2 had that weather pattern the all of the area would be the sane, from North Africa all the wat to china would be fields as lush as the prairies and supporting 2 crops a year. I'm pretty sure the Bible would be able to support that kind of examination and have the 'program' not crash.
Hang a light on a cloudy day and the locals could be convinced the sun had stopped moving for 6 hours in a row, that's going to impress them, us, not so much.
The last ice age began to end about 13 thousand years ago. Most of the northern hemisphere was under about 1 1/2 miles of ice. That ice came from where? Ocean levels dropped about 400 feet during the ice age. Most of the human population today lives in close proximity to the oceans so it is not a great leap of faith to assume that most of the human population lived in close proximity to the oceans during the last ice age. When the ice melted, the oceans rose about 400 feet, flooding most of the cities and villages that had existed in close proximity to the shores.
We are finding that there are quite a few advanced civilizations at the time and their archaeological remains are being discovered below sea level today. Most of the population probably lived in a lesser style and the remains of their habitats have been wiped clean from the geological record by the rising waters. This would account for the "universal" accounts of floods all over the globe.
It is my contention, that these flood stories come from that event and are much older than the later accounts found in the bible or anywhere else. These stories are older than later civilizations, including Sumeria. They were retold with each new civilization and given the "personal touch by the scribes of the day. The biblical flood story is a plagiarized version of the Sumerian and Babylonian epochs which were plagiarized from much earlier stories that were handed down for thousands of years orally before writing was invented in Sumeria.
Taking the biblical narrative seriously and literally as a historical document is just plain silly. It is nothing more than a retelling of ancient oral narratives that were passed down through the ages from the primitive peoples that survived the great flood that happened at the end of last ice age.
We are finding that there are quite a few advanced civilizations at the time and their archaeological remains are being discovered below sea level today. Most of the population probably lived in a lesser style and the remains of their habitats have been wiped clean from the geological record by the rising waters. This would account for the "universal" accounts of floods all over the globe.
It is my contention, that these flood stories come from that event and are much older than the later accounts found in the bible or anywhere else. These stories are older than later civilizations, including Sumeria. They were retold with each new civilization and given the "personal touch by the scribes of the day. The biblical flood story is a plagiarized version of the Sumerian and Babylonian epochs which were plagiarized from much earlier stories that were handed down for thousands of years orally before writing was invented in Sumeria.
Taking the biblical narrative seriously and literally as a historical document is just plain silly. It is nothing more than a retelling of ancient oral narratives that were passed down through the ages from the primitive peoples that survived the great flood that happened at the end of last ice age.
Now try to find evidence of the great exodus as narrated by Moses. The escape of the Jews from Egypt, wandering in the desert for 40 years. There is no historical or archeological evidence of such a large migration of people out of Egypt.
It is also believed Adam had two wives. Lilith and later Eve. God created man and woman together in one verse and God created Eve out of Adam's rib in another verse. The second is what most are familiar. But the first is also mentioned. If they couldn't get the story right in the beginning, imagine what all they got wrong later.
You are adding info not given back in that book. We are told Adam would die on the same day he ate, he died 930 years later. Peter tells is that 1,000 years is like one day with God but that is a reference to the 1,000 year reign that is coming up. It starts out with a few hours of wrath via fire but 1,000 years later that same fore 'finishes' what it started. At the start only the land in Ge:2 is cleansed by fire, when Satan and the fallen angels are sent to the lake the rest of the world is cleansed. That allows the OT prophecies that mention the day of God's wrath to cover both events in that the few hours is added to a few more hours that is equal to 24 hours. (our time) and within the 1,000 years which is a day for an angelic being. The other part of that saying is that a day is a 1,000 years long and that is a reference to Judgment Day before the GWT and rather than be 24 hours long it is 1,000 years long just because there are many people involved that come out of the grave and receive a 'pardon' and a drink of living water and the right to enter New Jerusalem for the journey to their new home on the New Earth.
If the people alive for the 1,000 years are given life because of grace then why do 'they' find it impossible to see that the larger section of mankind does not get life because of the mercy of God? It isn't a matter of 'are you saved, it is a matter of will you be part of the 1,000 years and become witnesses to God destroying Satan and all the fallen angels in the same way that Jesus destroyed Satan's Babylon. Most didn't see that as they were in the grave. Over the 1,000 years they reside in Israel and the garden area (camp of the Saints) and they become perfected people so that when God's fire comes for the beings that already have the 2nd birth it does not send them to that same place. They need that 1,000 years and that gives them all the right to become permanent residents of New Jerusalem when it lands on the New Earth. All of mankind is in the city and when the gates open the ones that regained life at the GWT will step out and make their home outside the walls of the City. The New Earth happens to be the 'old home of angelic beings' as they stay in their new home, the location of the GWT event. That is the difference between being saved at the first possible moment and the last possible moment.
The not talking about being the Son of Man issue was the beginning of what should not be mentioned, (the question) and the vision a week later was when that command was withdrawn and they could talk about what happened after they came down from the mountain. There is a beginning and an end to a lot of things in Scripture, nothing as big as Ge:1 having that heaven and earth disappear as it does after Satan is in the lake.
Back to this earth at the end of creation day 1 (or step 1/7) Light was created on that day, The sun and moon all existed but they were not given names until the end of the 4th day when their greater purpose in our life was established, playing the clock that was ticking down to an even when earth and heaven and all that was in it was 'overhauled' and any imperfections fixed so that in the era coming no repairs of that nature would be needed. The last ones 'saved' are the ones sent to hell for being at war on the day He returns. They are locked in hell when Satan and the fallen angels are released and as such they are still there when the lake event is over, the gates are only opened when they are in the place of the the GWT. If all sinful being had been removed from heaven then sinful men could not enter. However men who have been punished and that punishment paid in full are greeted as being sinless and under the new law they do not have time to sin before they can enter New Jerusalem. Their Shepherds cam bring them up to speed once they have a new home. There struggle and punishment and rewards after is all in one chapter, Isaiah 65. That chapter even gives us the info on how life will be for babies in the New Earth. From conception to 20 years old they will be called an infant. At 20 the infant title dies and child (of God) is used for the next 100 years. That would be what we call adult life so marriage and 100 children is involved as is conduct and on a person's 120th birthday that 120 year determination from Ge:6 comes in and a person is judged. Moses was the first man to be under that law and he died at 120, a day before so that on resurrection he can shed the 'child' title and take on the 'old-man' title that will serve him for the rest of eternity. People will not have children after that judgement as glorification come with that change. Until a person is 120 they are eternal beings, they live forever as long as they have food and water, with glorification by God and the move into the 2nd birth there is immortality and that is life without food or water.
The ones alive for the 1,000 years are the first to be glorified and in the 1,000 years they are not given in marriage so no children will be born, the number of people at the start is the same number and the same people that are at Jerusalem for the Feast of the Tabernacles when Satan is released from the Pit. That is one difference between the 1,000 years and the New Earth. A bigger change is the 1,000 years starts with birds and animals being allowed to feast on the bodies of sinners. That is their reward for the woes man has caused them since the exile, Christ then puts them all to sleep in the grave. That means the earth is without them and the only sign of 'other flesh' is the fish in the Dead Sea (Eze:47). While this may seem cruel it also fits the beginning and end of something determined by God. In the New earth Christ would be required to restore life to the flesh that He put into the grave, God was the first to kill when He made clothes for Adam and Eve so He would be required to restore that live, that is the beginning and end of what flesh from this world will be in the new earth to be used as 'seeds' so even with a great deal of people entering there it will not be without a lot of flesh there instantly.
Isa:60:22:
A little one shall become a thousand,
and a small one a strong nation:
I the LORD will hasten it in his time.
Lu:12:6:
Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings,
and not one of them is forgotten before God?
Lu:12:7:
But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Fear not therefore:
ye are of more value than many sparrows.
In the bogga booga dept does it seem reasonable that given the volume that was the ice caps on the north and south and melting saw that much change take place be the same ratio for what seems to be very little ice (Greenland and South Pole) being able to raise it as much as predicted (75ft??)
If the oceans receded 400 ft we would all have lush gardens as the is fish remains and that is decent topsoil when dried out a bit. If the winds around the world ever changed to N/S year around that condition could happen fast if the oceans were also 85deg at the tropics. Greenland and Baffin Island would get 100ft of snow at a time. SP about the same or snow falling on open water just chills it off and it sinks faster and that means the water rises faster at the tropics and that is more water evaporated and that is more snow. The good news is the seasonal changes would be daylight only and very little difference in temp changes or rainfall
I posted a map that shows a lake between the Red Sea and the Med Sea, that narrow point is where they would have crossed rather than needing to split an Ocean in 2. How many SUV's get swept away in flood waters that are less than 3ft deep. As for crossing the damp sand would have been as hard as concrete, getting to it would have been the hard part. The lakes are the only body of water between those two places and Moses and Crew would travel across the sand, the soldiers had to take the longer route via road. The middle of the lake is a narrow spot and put a strong east wind at the water all night and in the morning the larger part of the lake would be holding water that belonged in the lower lake. When the wind stopped that water would have returned as a flash flood, fast moving water that is quite shallow. If it had mud in it then it would be like liquid concrete.
Ex:14:2:
Speak unto the children of Israel,
that they turn and encamp before Pi-hahiroth,
between Migdol and the sea,
over against Baal-zephon:
before it shall ye encamp by the sea.
If you look at all the inland lakes. They are not very big. One would expect if there was a global flood that covered mountain tops, there would' be no place for the water to recede. There just isn't any evidence of a global flood that destroyed the world. The world still remains populated even in the remotest regions of the world suggesting most of the world remained unaffected by Noah's flood. The diversity of the human race and animals go against Noah's geriatric heroics.
How about the rain fall as snow once you are looking at the high hills and mountain tops? Snow can be 20 ft deep in each location and the snow at the tops can still fall down hills, you can still find a beach also except in this case all the land gets that much water. If the building blocks were soaked for 150 days before the currents came not much of the original would be left.
You are not answering the questions raised.
Remember, except for Noah and family and what could fit in a boat the world was flooded with water and destroyed. How did people get to the remotest areas of the world to start again when there was only one big boat left in all the world, Noah's ark!!!!
Old Tjikko
This ancient, 16-foot tall Norway spruce lives in the scrubby Fulufjället Mountains in Sweden. At 9,550 years, Old Tjikko is the oldest single-stemmed clonal tree, and took root not long after the glaciers receded from Scandinavia after the last ice age. To figure out the hardy spruce’s age, scientists carbon-dated its roots. For thousands of years, the forbidding tundra-climate kept Old Tjikko in shrub form. But as weather warmed over the last century, the shrub has grown into a full-fledged tree. The spruce’s discoverer, geologist Leif Kullman, named the tree after his dead dog.
Old Tjikko
This ancient, 16-foot tall Norway spruce lives in the scrubby Fulufjället Mountains in Sweden. At 9,550 years, Old Tjikko is the oldest single-stemmed clonal tree, and took root not long after the glaciers receded from Scandinavia after the last ice age. To figure out the hardy spruce’s age, scientists carbon-dated its roots. For thousands of years, the forbidding tundra-climate kept Old Tjikko in shrub form. But as weather warmed over the last century, the shrub has grown into a full-fledged tree. The spruce’s discoverer, geologist Leif Kullman, named the tree after his dead dog.
Another setback for young flat earth believers.
What kind of troll would I be if I did that?
As I see it the issue is how could a mountain that 1s 30k ft tall gett 22 ft of rain without the high hill that are 10k hign noy get an extra 20k ft of water. Falling as snow solves that. Having only the dry land get 22ft of rain also eliminated any rain falling on the oceans. The 'deep' is the ocean an 'rain' was falling up over that body of water and the moisture moved over the land and it fell as rain. 6" per day for 40 days.
If Adam named the animals on earth by God bringing them to the Garden area of Ge:2 the why not have those very animals be the ones taken on the ark, they could reproduce to cover the world one more time.
As for spreading out after the flood was over, I doubt people would have needed much incentive to leave the area. if North africa was covered by a forest it would have been stripped bare just building rafts to get to South America. (the easiest direction to go if settling the world is the goal.
Why do I feel like demanding we cut it down so the rings can be counted? Trees have been part of the earth for400M years.
Old Tjikko
This ancient, 16-foot tall Norway spruce lives in the scrubby Fulufjället Mountains in Sweden. At 9,550 years, Old Tjikko is the oldest single-stemmed clonal tree, and took root not long after the glaciers receded from Scandinavia after the last ice age. To figure out the hardy spruce’s age, scientists carbon-dated its roots. For thousands of years, the forbidding tundra-climate kept Old Tjikko in shrub form. But as weather warmed over the last century, the shrub has grown into a full-fledged tree. The spruce’s discoverer, geologist Leif Kullman, named the tree after his dead dog.
Eden was a garden not a forest. How many gardens have you visited that have 2 animals of every kind running around between the flowers. Noah was 600 years only hen he finished his ark. It is believed his ark landed on mount Ararat near turkey. That is not too far from where he started. And it is quite a distance from both Africa and South America where most of the animals are to be found. Turkey is not famous for animals or shipbuilding. So it is very unlikely Noah's ark transported the animals to the countries where they originate from.