A challenge to our dear Christian friends.

look3467

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I thought is was things in the OT that were out-of-date? What is not relevant today that the NT speaks of?

I don't sky-dive, why jump out of a perfectly working aircraft?

None of us would make it on own own merits.

The old Testament is the foundation on which Christs ministry is founded on.

Before Jesus begins a second, there must first be and end of the first.

DANIEL 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.

The time appointed was when Jesus died on the cross, for all of it, is hinged on that one day, the end of the old and the beginning of the new.

Jesus said," It is finished", and then He rested on the eve of the Sabbath.

Heb 10:12 but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Rev 21:5 And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.

The Old Testament can not the new make without an executor of the new covenant, the mediator between heaven and earth.

The beginning of the end:
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

They have come to pass, the end of one and the beginning of the other, so that now the fountain of life is open to all who thirst after the word to drink freely without any condemnation.

That my friend is the good news!

Peace>>>AJ

 

look3467

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What is not relevant today that the NT speaks of?>>>MHz

Women speaking in the congregation, observation of certain days, women not to wear pants, the women covering of the hair, circumcision, and a few other things which are legalistic in nature and having nothing to do with the transformation of the heart.

From the transformation of the heart outward, are the works of God made manifest in us, and are not any of the legalistic things mankind requires, but are only as guidelines.

Peace>>>AJ
 

MHz

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Pretty much everybody but the one giving the sermon is quiet in Church, men, women, and children. Where does the NT say anything about women wearing pants? Holy days and diets were covered in Col:2:16. Circumcision was no longer required, so that has not changed. Scripture does mention long hair for women as being a glory, nothing about keeping it covered, the hair itself is her covering.
 

BM5

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I was once a practising,maybe even devout Catholic.

Now I'm an atheist.I think there are many more atheists in society than most folks know; out of not wanting to offend anyone or being somewhat and somehow almost ashamed of saying so, most people don't say anything at all.Just my feeling - I have no empirical evidence to demonstrate that.

But I have a proposition that I hope to prove and hope it begins a worthwhile discussion,
hopefully shedding more light than heat.

It is ; the Christian Bible, whatever translation you are fond of, is hate literature. It portrays a vengeful,schizophrenic, murderous and petty God taking his revenge on his own creation. I will demonstrate that Scripture describes God's hatred of women, humans born in colonizing environments, slaves, children, homosexuals, and a host of other minorities.

I hope to prove that no such entity as we know as God could reasonably, rationally exist; that the so-called creator and ruler of the universe could be a perverse, egotistical meglomaniac as described in the Holy Scripture he inspired. The Bible is a ficticious creation of silly, incoherent and hateful goat herder myths and fables that SHOULD be apparent for it's foolishness, but is instead seen as his holy word.

This isn't a one time rant/post - I mean to prove what I say by using the very text so many Christians assert as a a HOLY BIBLE.

You will see posts from me under this thread in days to come and hope you are up to the challenge of defending your faith.

My respect for the real. When I was a fully brainwashed religionist, it was almost like living a bad dream; all the fairy tales, magic, angels and devils, the Unseen God who knows what you're going to do, the neo-cannabalism of the eucharistic myths of the Holy Roman Catholic Church,hypocrisy of organized religion , the all knowing God who supposedley knows what you think,the catechism that teaches thinking sinful thoughts is the same as committing them, God's representatives on earth turning out to be gold diggers, pederasts or outright liars. What a load of garbage.

We ought to make legislation to outlaw child abuse as it concerns the teaching of nonsensical myths and brainwashing of children.

That "God" so many worship is nothing more than a silly figment of imagination, wishful thinking, legend, and brain washing.

And all the silly scrptural texts being thrown about on this thread prove nothing more than some folks would rather live fairy tales than real lives.

Sad.

Well Grump : appreciate your response, it felt true, and I can not disagree with the bulk of the feelings of your bitter heart. However, in this case the messangers should be shot, not the One Who gave the message.
 

look3467

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Pretty much everybody but the one giving the sermon is quiet in Church, men, women, and children. Where does the NT say anything about women wearing pants? Holy days and diets were covered in Col:2:16. Circumcision was no longer required, so that has not changed. Scripture does mention long hair for women as being a glory, nothing about keeping it covered, the hair itself is her covering.

This one verse specifically is interpreted as women having to cover their hair in order as not to distract as well as wearing jewelry, make up and the sorts.
1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be the outward adorning of braiding the hair, and of wearing jewelry of gold, or of putting on apparel;

The point I am making is that certain things are taken to be as a requirement for some religious beliefs, when in all, the main point of it all is the beauty of the heart that is sought.

For there in (Heart) is where the beauty is, where the adorning is, where the richness is.

As for the women wearing pants, I don't recall the verse specific to that conclusion, but it is required by some beliefs

I consider all that workable solutions because the different denominations take what they want to observe re as their own beliefs.

Therefore, the new testament becomes a workable guide to working out our own salvation.


Peace>>>AJ
 

MHz

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This one verse specifically is interpreted as women having to cover their hair in order as not to distract as well as wearing jewelry, make up and the sorts.
1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be the outward adorning of braiding the hair, and of wearing jewelry of gold, or of putting on apparel;
How do you relate braiding to keeping their hair covered, that isn't even close to being the same thing? Wearing a golden chain with a cross on it shouldn't be used as a way for people to recognize them as being a Christian. The recognition is through acts of kindness, that applies to men as well, wear a cross it is nothing more than an icon.
The point I am making is that certain things are taken to be as a requirement for some religious beliefs, when in all, the main point of it all is the beauty of the heart that is sought.
Men are just as vain, look in any large store and you will find a huge selection of product aimed at enhancing a man's outer beauty. Television ads are no different, you don't see commercials that promote inner beauty, they are geared towards outer beauty.
For there in (Heart) is where the beauty is, where the adorning is, where the richness is.
Did Jesus gather believers by inner or outer beauty?
Isa:53:2: For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa:53:3:
He is despised and rejected of men;
a man of sorrows,
and acquainted with grief:
and we hid as it were our faces from him;
he was despised,
and we esteemed him not.
Isa:53:4:
Surely he hath borne our griefs,
and carried our sorrows:
yet we did esteem him stricken,
smitten of God,
and afflicted.
Isa:53:5:
But he was wounded for our transgressions,
he was bruised for our iniquities:
the chastisement of our peace was upon him;
and with his stripes we are healed.

Contrast that with what the temple leaders were led by.
M't:6:5:
And when thou prayest,
thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are:
for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets,
that they may be seen of men.
Verily I say unto you,
They have their reward.

Lu:18:9:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous,
and despised others:
Lu:18:10:
Two men went up into the temple to pray;
the one a Pharisee,
and the other a publican.
Lu:18:11:
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself,
God,
I thank thee,
that I am not as other men are,
extortioners,
unjust,
adulterers,
or even as this publican.
Lu:18:12:
I fast twice in the week,
I give tithes of all that I possess.
Lu:18:13:
And the publican,
standing afar off,
would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven,
but smote upon his breast,
saying,
God be merciful to me a sinner.
Lu:18:14:
I tell you,
this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased;
and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Joh:12:42:
Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him,
lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Joh:12:43:
For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

As for the women wearing pants, I don't recall the verse specific to that conclusion, but it is required by some beliefs
Let me know when you find it.
I consider all that workable solutions because the different denominations take what they want to observe re as their own beliefs.

Therefore, the new testament becomes a workable guide to working out our own salvation.
Like this verse?
1Pe:4:15:
But let none of you suffer as a murderer,
or as a thief,
or as an evildoer,
or as a busybody in other men's matters.


 

Scott Free

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Scripture does mention long hair for women as being a glory, nothing about keeping it covered, the hair itself is her covering.

God has a fetish? I can think of a few more attributes that are "glorious" too ;-)
 

MHz

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What no list??
Why don't you do a comparison between the attributes between those that you find in attractive in a wife and those that you would find attractive in a harlot? Would there be any difference?
 

mrgrumpy

Electoral Member
Well Grump : appreciate your response, it felt true, and I can not disagree with the bulk of the feelings of your bitter heart. However, in this case the messangers should be shot, not the One Who gave the message.

One gave the message?

The books of the bible have MANY authors, translations, changes, embellishments.

If you are suggesting however that One inspired them all, then the only conclusions are;

1. The message got so mixed up and garbled that there is no sense to the contradictions, false hoods and schizophrenic writings therein, or

2. The One is a nasty child killing tormentor who alternaetely hates and punishes humanity, but on a good day can raise the dead or turn water into wine, or

3.The whole thing was created by the ignorant to embellish their lives and in the end give the powerful the ability to control society.
 

mrgrumpy

Electoral Member
I don't ascribe to any religious organization, but simply am a believer in a God so Wonderful, so Good, Compassionate, and Giving, that my life has been nothing but joy to live, and with great expectations for when this time is over, that I would have served well and I would have received my reward..............and that is life for ever more!


Peace>>>AJ[/quote]

Does a Good, Compassionate God stone unruly children, adulterers and homosexuals? Any schmuck on the street has more compassion than that!

Does he drown all mankind, save one family, beacause he's having a temper tantrum? The wordl's greatest tyrants pale by comparison!

I think this invisible entity you think has some reward for you is a figment of your imagination, or in the unbelievable likelihood he does exist may have some very nasty surprises for you. Crazed killers always do.
 

MHz

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#3 is a good one, the sheep teaching the shepherds how they can control them. LOL

#2 does account for all deaths not attributed to Him, yet He will raise them just the same.

#1 that's what happens when you let others read it to you, they can add and take away as much or as little as they see fit, and you get to sit there without a clue as to what just happened.

Why would getting killed by a crazed killer come as a surprise to you?
 

Scott Free

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Does he drown all mankind, save one family, beacause he's having a temper tantrum? The wordl's greatest tyrants pale by comparison!

I read a great book that translated a whole bunch of Noah (a.k.a Utnapishtim) stories from cuneiform. As it turns out a Ea caused the flood because a goddess had the hots for Noah and he got jealous. She told him to build a boat in order to escape and about a plant he could eat that would extend his life. Noah was very popular and there were a lot of stories about him. I'm going to try and find that book again. It is interesting how a story can get so twisted over time. A great deal of the Bible is "borrowed" from ancient times and the Egyptian Horus religion.
 

mrgrumpy

Electoral Member
I read a great book that translated a whole bunch of Noah (a.k.a Utnapishtim) stories from cuneiform. As it turns out a Ea caused the flood because a goddess had the hots for Noah and he got jealous. She told him to build a boat in order to escape and about a plant he could eat that would extend his life. Noah was very popular and there were a lot of stories about him. I'm going to try and find that book again. It is interesting how a story can get so twisted over time. A great deal of the Bible is "borrowed" from ancient times and the Egyptian Horus religion.

A couple weeks ago there were several posts on that subject and a film/documentary about how ancient myths formed the basis of the christian stories.
Did you see/read t?
 

Scott Free

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May 9, 2007
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I read a great book that translated a whole bunch of Noah (a.k.a Utnapishtim) stories from cuneiform. As it turns out a Ea caused the flood because a goddess had the hots for Noah and he got jealous. She told him to build a boat in order to escape and about a plant he could eat that would extend his life. Noah was very popular and there were a lot of stories about him. I'm going to try and find that book again. It is interesting how a story can get so twisted over time. A great deal of the Bible is "borrowed" from ancient times and the Egyptian Horus religion.

A couple weeks ago there were several posts on that subject and a film/documentary about how ancient myths formed the basis of the christian stories.
Did you see/read t?

No I didn't. Is there a link to the film here?
 

MHz

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Apparently he had dealing with
the same Church you just escaped from
http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/founding-fathers-xtianity.html
More Jefferson
"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for
enslaving mankind and adulturated by artificial constructions into a
contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy in fact,
constitute the real Anti-Christ."

Here is how he fely about God
http://home.att.net/~jrhsc/jeff.html
God who gave us life, gave us liberty. And can the
liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have
removed their only firm basis: a conviction in the
minds of men that these liberties are the gift of God?
That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?
Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that
God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever.
Thomas Jefferson

God's Purpose
"The Giver of life gave it for happiness and not
for wretchedness." --
Thomas Jefferson

The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at
the same time.
Thomas Jefferson
 

look3467

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Dec 13, 2006
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I don't ascribe to any religious organization, but simply am a believer in a God so Wonderful, so Good, Compassionate, and Giving, that my life has been nothing but joy to live, and with great expectations for when this time is over, that I would have served well and I would have received my reward..............and that is life for ever more!


Peace>>>AJ

Does a Good, Compassionate God stone unruly children, adulterers and homosexuals? Any schmuck on the street has more compassion than that!

Does he drown all mankind, save one family, because he's having a temper tantrum? The world's greatest tyrants pale by comparison!

I think this invisible entity you think has some reward for you is a figment of your imagination, or in the unbelievable likelihood he does exist may have some very nasty surprises for you. Crazed killers always do.

[/quote]

I could say to you that I got stoned the other day or that all the first born should die under the age of two, or the the I ordered the bear to eat the children, and would you be able to understand what all I meant by the uses of those words?

I would say you would not understand, but rather you would call me a murderer, a murderer of children, a heartless person to want the she bear to kill children, wouldn't you?

I will tell you what I meant and maybe you might have a different opinion of me.

I got stoned, meaning I drank a little to much at my daughters wedding.

That all first born up to the age of two would be excluded from entering the main auditorium while the play was going on.

That the she bear, a symbol of one consuming the bad deeds of children with love in order to grant them an opportunity to repent from their misdeeds.

Now, was I all what you thought I was after I gave you the explanations?

I would rather think, you would say, wow, he is a very good person for he thinks more of others than he does of him self.

Before you criticize the God that gave you life, perhaps you might want to try to understand Him.

I understand Him, and I find Him to be quite loving.

Peace>>>AJ
 

givpeaceachance

Electoral Member
Mar 12, 2008
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Okay so to answer the very first and original post, here are some quotes from the Bible that i found.

" For the Lord's rejection does not last forever; Though He punishes, He takes pity, in the abundance of His mercies; He has no joy in afflicting or grieving the sons of men.
When anyone tramples underfoot all the prisoners in the land, when he distorts men's rights in the very sight of the most High, when he presses a crooked claim. the Lord does not look on unconcerned. " Lamentations 3:31-36

" I came so that you may have and enjoy life in abundance, until it overflows. " John 10:10

" How priceless is your unfailing love! Both high and low among men find refuge in the shadow of your wings. " Psalm 36:7,

" We love Him because He first loved us. " 1 John 4:9-10

" So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand. " Isaiah 41:10


I believe that there's quotes from both the 1 and 2 testaments. I hope this helps a bit.