9/11 Anniversary

hunboldt

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Feeble. Just feeble. And pathetic.

I find it quite amusing that you are blatantly trying to change history just to make you feel good.

Here is what the result of the War of 1812 was:


  • Status quo ante bellum with no boundary changes (which is what the British wanted);
  • Defeat of Tecumseh's Indian Confederation
  • Ended support for military annexation by US of Canada.
The Americans lost the War of 1812, it's a well-known fact, so quit trying to get all superior about someone which you failed miserably at. Typical American arrogance.



You also have to remember that, unlike in North American, the War of 1812 is hardly mentioned. It is seen as a relatively minor affair, sidelined by the much larger conflict Britain was involved in against the nefarious activities of Napoleonic France.

Actually, the boundary did change. The treaty of Paris had set the tentative westward boundary at the Missouri river. The treaty of 1818 reset it at the 49 th Parallel to the Pacific. The United States got unrestricted control of the Great lakes region. And free rights to take over Florida from Spain.

AND HYDER ALASKA, but if you have ever been to Hyder, maybe Canada won this point...




Not since William the Bastard. His son, William Rufous, was forced to accept conditions in his coronation oath, including the obligation to accept the decisions of the shiremoot.

Here's a compliment, free for nothing, Blackleaf. So far as historical Europe is concerned, Britain is the place where the Southern tradition of top-down organisation and the Northern tradition of bottom-up, people-approved kingship with distinct limits on the king's power, met and fought and arrived at a uniquely powerful compromise that was memorialised in the Magna Carta and led to a system that, for all its many and obvious flaws, allowed a small island in the North Atlantic to dominate the world for the best part of two centuries.


Britain also reformed its government after 1815 from an amateurish private kleptocracy to , well, what it is today...
 

Blackleaf

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Actually, the boundary did change. The treaty of Paris had set the tentative westward boundary at the Missouri river. The treaty of 1818 reset it at the 49 th Parallel to the Pacific. The United States got unrestricted control of the Great lakes region. And free rights to take over Florida from Spain.

The Treaty of Paris was nothing to do with the War of 1812.

The War of 1812:

1) Stopped the American invasions of Canada;
2) Saw the US fail to stop British impressments, which continued until after Britain defeated Napoleonic France and saw Boney die in British captivity;
3) Saw U.S. actions having no effect on the orders in council, which were rescinded before the war started.

British victory, job done.

Any US gain in territory after that was nothing to do with it.
 
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EagleSmack

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No, it hadn't. The British didn't stop impressment until after another victory of theirs - that in the Napoleonic Wars.

Pressing stopped before the end of the war in practice and was made law in 1814.

The War of 1812 did NOT stop British impressment. That was one of the things the Yanks failed to achieve.
The pressing had already stopped so it was achieved by force.


Feeble. Just feeble. And pathetic.
Yet true! I know it hurts bad to hear that the Brits lost... but face it.

I find it quite amusing that you are blatantly trying to change history just to make you feel good.

British demands...

As the peace talks opened, the British demanded the creation of an Indian barrier state in the American Northwest Territory (the area from Ohio to Wisconsin), and they demanded that Americans not have any naval forces on the Great Lakes. The U.S. rejected the demands and there was an impasse.

A barrier state was not created...the US maintained naval forces on the Great Lakes.

I think you have no right, from the state of war, to demand any concession of territory from America ... You have not been able to carry it into the enemy's territory, notwithstanding your military success and now undoubted military superiority, and have not even cleared your own territory on the point of attack. You cannot on any principle of equality in negotiation claim a cessation of territory except in exchange for other advantages which you have in your power ... Then if this reasoning be true, why stipulate for the uti possidetis? You can get no territory: indeed, the state of your military operations, however creditable, does not entitle you to demand any- Duke of Wellington

The Brits wanted concessions but they failed to get any... and ...

Expansionist interests in the American Northwest were better served, since all British-held territory in this area was surrendered to the United States. This severance of British–American Indian ties led in 1814 and 1815 to a number of treaties of allegiance and land transfer between the Indians and the United States and thus opened the way to American settlement of the Northwest.


The Americans lost the War of 1812, it's a well-known fact, so quit trying to get all superior about someone which you failed miserably at.
So say the embarrassed Brits.

Typical American arrogance.
Coming from you! That is hilarious.

You also have to remember that, unlike in North American, the War of 1812 is hardly mentioned. It is seen as a relatively minor affair, sidelined by the much larger conflict Britain was involved in against the nefarious activities of Napoleonic France.
The War of 1812 was sparsely mentioned in the US. However I can see why the Brits ignored it. It was yet another embarrassing defeat to the US.
 

hunboldt

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Napoleonic France brutally stamped out many uprisings against its rule in many of the places it had invaded and subjugated.

Napoleon would have done the same to any Irish uprising against French rule had he managed to conquer it.

Napoleonic France would not have treated the Irish any better than Britain had done.

Have you got any evidence to back up your absurd claim that Castlereagh killed himself over some supposed guilt he felt at the way the Irish were treated? This was the early 19th Century, not the wishy-washy, PC, guilt-ridden early 21st Century.

Castlereagh killed himself because he went mad from gout.



The Six Acts was merely a nervous government responding to the scenes of revolution it had seen in some other places in Europe around that time and not long before, which was scared that the same would happen in Britain.


Alf, you are indeed the 'Master of Deflection'.

Castlereagh went mad for a 'number o' reasons'- the growing social ostracism against him post 1814 was one of them. Wolfe Tone's rebellion was not for independence , Originally, - it was for the VOTE and civil rights for the 'soulless bestial Papists".:roll:

Pressing stopped before the end of the war in practice and was made law in 1814.

The pressing had already stopped so it was achieved by force.


Yet true! I know it hurts bad to hear that the Brits lost... but face it.



British demands...

As the peace talks opened, the British demanded the creation of an Indian barrier state in the American Northwest Territory (the area from Ohio to Wisconsin), and they demanded that Americans not have any naval forces on the Great Lakes. The U.S. rejected the demands and there was an impasse.

A barrier state was not created...the US maintained naval forces on the Great Lakes.

I think you have no right, from the state of war, to demand any concession of territory from America ... You have not been able to carry it into the enemy's territory, notwithstanding your military success and now undoubted military superiority, and have not even cleared your own territory on the point of attack. You cannot on any principle of equality in negotiation claim a cessation of territory except in exchange for other advantages which you have in your power ... Then if this reasoning be true, why stipulate for the uti possidetis? You can get no territory: indeed, the state of your military operations, however creditable, does not entitle you to demand any- Duke of Wellington

The Brits wanted concessions but they failed to get any... and ...

Expansionist interests in the American Northwest were better served, since all British-held territory in this area was surrendered to the United States. This severance of British–American Indian ties led in 1814 and 1815 to a number of treaties of allegiance and land transfer between the Indians and the United States and thus opened the way to American settlement of the Northwest.


So say the embarrassed Brits.

Coming from you! That is hilarious.

The War of 1812 was sparsely mentioned in the US. However I can see why the Brits ignored it. It was yet another embarrassing defeat to the US.


BL's history texts, have, I suspect, pages in which you can colour with crayons.
Wellington recognised the reality - without effective British cavalry and fast horse drawn mobile artillery, in 'the new war' Andrew Jackson would have swept into Canada in 1815. Better make peace while you can. The Battle of the Thames was a harbinger of what Mounted infantry with flintlocks and tomahawks could do against a strung out thin red line- on foot.
 

EagleSmack

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At Waterloo, Wellington had 11,000 cavalry out of 68,000 troops. Spot the difference...

At Waterloo British Cavalry performed poorly. Their main charge was repulsed by superior French cavalry sending the Brits back to their own lines in full retreat. Anglo-Allied squares eventually held the French.

If not for Blucher and the Prussians... the real victors of the day the... the Anglo-Allies would have been routed.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Castlereagh went mad for a 'number o' reasons'- the growing social ostracism against him post 1814 was one of them. Wolfe Tone's rebellion was not for independence , Originally, - it was for the VOTE and civil rights for the 'soulless bestial Papists".:roll:
Wait a minute. . . somebody actually named their kid after the Wolfe Tones?

BL's history texts, have, I suspect, pages in which you can colour with crayons.
Either that or the airplane glue.
 

hunboldt

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At Waterloo British Cavalry performed poorly. Their main charge was repulsed by superior French cavalry sending the Brits back to their own lines in full retreat. Anglo-Allied squares eventually held the French.

If not for Blucher and the Prussians... the real victors of the day the... the Anglo-Allies would have been routed.


 

Blackleaf

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Pressing stopped before the end of the war

No, it didn't. It didn't stop until after we defeated Napoleon. I've already explained that.

Yet true! I know it hurts bad to hear that the Brits lost... but face it.

1) It doesn't hurt because it's an obscure war in the British psyche. The Napoleonic Wars, which we won, are far more significant in Britain than the War of 1812;
2) It hurts Americans that THEY lost because that war is a bigger thing to Americans than it is to Great Britons.


It was yet another embarrassing defeat to the US.

We won. Get over it. No amount of whingeing is gonna change history.

You then went on to lose the Napoleonic Wars against the British, too. Remember, the Yanks were on Boney's side in that war. So the British won two wars against Americans in quick succession.

In fact, I'd even go as far as to suggest that Britain would also beat America in a war right now.
 

EagleSmack

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No, it didn't. It didn't stop until after we defeated Napoleon. I've already explained that.

Yes you did... incorrectly. Pressing of US sailors was a non-issue at that point.


1) It doesn't hurt because it's an obscure war in the British psyche. The Napoleonic Wars, which we won, are far more significant in Britain than the War of 1812;
2) It hurts Americans that THEY lost because that war is a bigger thing to Americans than it is to Great Britons.

The Prussians and the Russians defeated Napoleon. Blucher was the true hero of Waterloo because Wellington sat on his butt until the very end.



We won. Get over it. No amount of whingeing is gonna change history.

No amount of what?



You then went on to lose the Napoleonic Wars against the British, too. Remember, the Yanks were on Boney's side in that war. So the British won two wars against Americans in quick succession.

WHAT! Oh man... you've lost your mind.

In fact, I'd even go as far as to suggest that Britain would also beat America in a war right now.

Of course you would... you're not very bright so I could see how you would say that. We whipped you twice and saved your butts three times... that really harms the Brit psyche.
 

hunboldt

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Always a pleasure indeed. And that's really the important thing--that we've learned to live as good neighbours, and the Americans learned a valuable lesson not to f*ck with us. Ever since then, things have been just peachy.


the defense of Canada was a pretty sterling undertaking 'against all odds'. The real hero was George Prevost, who died in London awaiting court martial.

George Prévost - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Prevost was 'blacklisted' by the Royal Navy to cover up their botched shipbuilding program on Lake Champlain. George Prévost - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your bunch, Alf.:lol:

Zip... you've already lost this fight on CanCon... at every turn. We all know it.



Ahhh! The Scots Greys... before they all had lances sticking through them.


Now Now. They decimated Napoleon's cuirassiers, which allowed Blucher to Rally the Prussians and march them into Napoleons flanks.
 

Zipperfish

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Zip... you've already lost this fight on CanCon... at every turn. We all know it.



.
Well, think about it. You say the Brits don't talk about it because it was an embrrassment. Then you correctly point out that the Americans have forgotten about it too. Whereas in Canaad the bicentenniel of this war was widely celebrated. Hmmm, wonder why. :lol:
 

EagleSmack

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Well, think about it. You say the Brits don't talk about it because it was an embrrassment. Then you correctly point out that the Americans have forgotten about it too. Whereas in Canaad the bicentenniel of this war was widely celebrated. Hmmm, wonder why. :lol:

Wouldn't it have been awesome if I ACTUALLY SAID the Americans have forgotten about it? Wouldn't that actually have given you a point in your post. Alas... it was not said... therefore you fail.

Why it is widely celebrated in Canada is kind of funny but it stems from the myth that Canada won.

BTW... did you ever get the Canadians route of march from Canada to Washington?