2011 Canadian Football League

[talloola]

I was very moved by the story that Wally told about his belief that Richard saved his life when he prevented members of the team from dousing him with cold water after their win. As Wally stated, no one but he and his wife knew about the heart problem so Richards' intervention was truly prescient.

Just realized that I was remiss in not adding that the missed interference call on Geroy Simon could have made all the difference to the score and the win. With only 2:04 left in the game, #46 of the Bombers should have been called for the interference penalty - it was right in front of the officials for pete's sake! The penalty would either have been half the distance to the goal line or 15 yards, either of which would have put the Lions within scoring territory. The missed call meant a turn-over on downs for the Lions giving the Bombers the ball and the ability to use up the clock.

Yes, they mentioned that on team 1040 the other day, concerning the prevention of cold water dousing.
A very sensitive and thoughtful move.

We commented on that missed call too, could have definitely made the difference, but that is the story
of the lions right now, things just aren't falling into place.

I get so fed up, just as I did with the canucks, with the calls coming into the radio station, fire
wally, fire this one, fire that one, on and on.

The losses don't bother me at all, its the process i'm interested in, but if they were getting blown
out of games, of course it would be a bigger problem, but they aren't.

The team is just missing plays, a play here, a play there, and there goes the game.

What difference would it make to fire the coach. Wally will make changes, he has allready done that,
but there are only so many players available, and as they stated on the radio, in the CFL trades hardly
ever happen, and there aren't any 'game changing' players available, can't do very much in that department.

He certainly hasn't forgotton how to coach all of a sudden, and if anything he is the best he's ever
been, as he has a deeper understanding of the relationship with players now, than earlier on, and has
a great ability to be their true leader, and keep their heads up and keeps them fighting on without
throwing in the towel, or becoming unravelled. He can't go out on the field and do it for them, that is
their job, they owe that to him, and they need to do it better.

 

[wulfie68]

The thing with coaches is that most, in any sport, have a finite period of effectiveness, and with modern athletes, it seems shorter than in previous generations. Maybe its because of the money involved in the business side, adding more pressure to win, but with most coaches, there comes a time when the players get tired of their message. It happens in football, it happens in hockey, it happens in other sports. Football is a little different in that it generally takes longer for a coach and his staff to implement their larger strategy and get the players up to speed on their playbook but in the end there is still that decline in their effectiveness.

 

[talloola]

The thing with coaches is that most, in any sport, have a finite period of effectiveness, and with modern athletes, it seems shorter than in previous generations. Maybe its because of the money involved in the business side, adding more pressure to win, but with most coaches, there comes a time when the players get tired of their message. It happens in football, it happens in hockey, it happens in other sports. Football is a little different in that it generally takes longer for a coach and his staff to implement their larger strategy and get the players up to speed on their playbook but in the end there is still that decline in their effectiveness.

I can understand that analogy sometimes, but not with young players, they can't be that arrogant.
They must listen and learn.

Geroy isn't that way at all, as a veteran. I don't believe this to be the case with wally.
The coach doesn't get senile and forget what he has to do, if anything he gets better, which is
what I see with wally, but many of the players are very young on this team.

I just turned the radio off, had it on for about 10 minutes, and if anything the fans should take
a look at themselves, because if teams don't win, they don't seem to have the desire or ability
to figure it out, they want 'heads' to roll, they want what they want, or they will take their
marbles and go home.
I see that as childlish, just as it is in hockey. There is the odd call that is refreshing, as the
person sounds so intelligent and has the vision to see into the game, and also the patience to just
wait it out, and if the team still doesn't do well, then so be it, we'll see what happens next year.

Last year they were 1 and 7 to start the season, and had a very good last half of the season.

GO LIONS GO

 

[talloola]

follow up:

Heard Glen Suter on team 1040 today, making big speech about wally buono, and what he should do, which is change leadership at top.
didn't hear any suggestion or answer to 'who' should come in to replace him.

It's so easy to say 'fire' the coach, so easy, but it's all emotional with no valid back up or no sensible

replacement suggestion.

Rash moves like that 'need' to be obvious, and improvement needs to happen because of them, can't see any

of that happening if wally 'goes'. If his replacement comes from within, same game calls will apply, same

plans from within, if someone comes in from outside, back to square one, and that takes time to sort it all

out.

Play it out till the end of the season, then let wally and company figure it out, he is a 'team first'

guy, he will never do anything that is selfish.

 

[damngrumpy]

Go RIDERS .. This is a great football league it has a mixture of American and Canadian players.
The thing I like about it is that it ensures the Canadian flavour remains Canadian. Some say
concentrating on Canadian players is racist. It is not racist its just that Canadians are more
nationalistic than we let on. If you noticed we are not that way with hockey and that is because
we don't understand that the Americans hijacked our game and we still think its ours.
The other thing I am perplexed about is the Magic of Wally the Lions head coach. At 0 and 5 no
one has discussed his future as coach. This team never achieves what it could I am happy
about that the but their fans should be upset.
I like the Canadian game far better than south of the boarder however I have a favorite NFL team
the Denver Broncos. I think more and more Americans that are introduced to the CFL like the
game the way it is.

 

[Kreskin]

The Lions miss Bob O'Billovich and Bob Ackles.

A previous Director of Player Personnel in Dallas, Ackles had connections to get talent and he is someone Wally could lean on. OB was also great at finding talent. Skulsky and Shivers aren't in the same league of management IMO.

It could be time for Wally to step aside.

 

[talloola]

The Lions miss Bob O'Billovich and Bob Ackles.

A previous Director of Player Personnel in Dallas, Ackles had connections to get talent and he is someone Wally could lean on. OB was also great at finding talent. Skulsky and Shivers aren't in the same league of management IMO.

It could be time for Wally to step aside.

from which position

 

[Mowich]

Yes, they mentioned that on team 1040 the other day, concerning the prevention of cold water dousing.
A very sensitive and thoughtful move.

We commented on that missed call too, could have definitely made the difference, but that is the story
of the lions right now, things just aren't falling into place.

I get so fed up, just as I did with the canucks, with the calls coming into the radio station, fire
wally, fire this one, fire that one, on and on.

The losses don't bother me at all, its the process i'm interested in, but if they were getting blown
out of games, of course it would be a bigger problem, but they aren't.

The team is just missing plays, a play here, a play there, and there goes the game.

What difference would it make to fire the coach. Wally will make changes, he has allready done that,
but there are only so many players available, and as they stated on the radio, in the CFL trades hardly
ever happen, and there aren't any 'game changing' players available, can't do very much in that department.

He certainly hasn't forgotton how to coach all of a sudden, and if anything he is the best he's ever
been, as he has a deeper understanding of the relationship with players now, than earlier on, and has
a great ability to be their true leader, and keep their heads up and keeps them fighting on without
throwing in the towel, or becoming unravelled. He can't go out on the field and do it for them, that is
their job, they owe that to him, and they need to do it better.

I can understand your anger at people calling for Wally's firing especially so early in the season, talloola. The same thing was happening with the Riders until they finally squeaked out a win. I was definitely concerned about team but knew that firing coaches and GMs would not solve the problem for, as you mentioned, they can't go out and make the plays themselves. Now with only one win to their record, the former naysayers are right back on the team's side - sheesh! Some fans just don't realize that it is a team effort and if everybody isn't on the same page of the playbook, the plays won't get made and the points won't get scored.

BC is too good a team to be kept down for long, I expect to see them come roaring back very soon. :smile:

Go RIDERS .. This is a great football league it has a mixture of American and Canadian players.
The thing I like about it is that it ensures the Canadian flavour remains Canadian. Some say
concentrating on Canadian players is racist. It is not racist its just that Canadians are more
nationalistic than we let on. If you noticed we are not that way with hockey and that is because
we don't understand that the Americans hijacked our game and we still think its ours.
The other thing I am perplexed about is the Magic of Wally the Lions head coach. At 0 and 5 no
one has discussed his future as coach. This team never achieves what it could I am happy
about that the but their fans should be upset.
I like the Canadian game far better than south of the boarder however I have a favorite NFL team
the Denver Broncos. I think more and more Americans that are introduced to the CFL like the
game the way it is.

I too am a great supporter of Canadian players in the league, DG......... but, when the roster is filled and the game is on, I don't care whether the player is Canadian or American or Chinese - they are our guys and I cheer for each and everyone of them.

I love our league, it gives us some of the most exciting football anywhere, IMHO. So many games come down to those final few moments when anything can and does happen and outcomes are uncertain until the final second.

Go, Riders, Go!

 

[Kreskin]

from which position

He should pick one because he can't do two successfully. It's like he hasn't had time to evaluate a runningback and stuck with a washed up Jamal Robertson. Now he's throwing in Brown hoping he can become a running game. The rest of the league has moved well beyond the development of this team. Unfortunately Wally hasn't had to deal with any heat, the owner just keeps backing him without question. The team just isn't responding to his demands, if he has any, and he sticks with the same old assistant coaches who've accomplished nothing. Something has to change and he needs to be the catalyst. Either he steps aside his GM duties and allows someone to gather talent while he focuses on the game plan or he gets someone in to kick some butt while he spends time gathering talent. The dual role is not working.

 

[Mowich]

I was busy helping a neighbor yesterday and didn't get to tune into the Hamilton vs Montreal game until late in the 3rd quarter so I was astonished to see that Hamilton was leading the Als.

Avon Cobourne is showing his stuff for the Ti-Cats just as he did for the Als, wonder if they miss him yet. :smile:

Anthony was back after leaving the game against the Riders last week with an eye injury but that didn't seem to help the fortunes of the Als much as Hamilton held on to take the win - 34 to 26. It was the second straight loss for Montreal and the first time they have gone for two consecutive losses since 2008.

Why, with so few games in the CFL, we have to have two games on one night is beyond me - you think they could stretch them out a bit more. Then we wouldn't have to miss the opening plays of games as happened last night when the Edmonton vs Argo game was joined already in progress with only 3:21 left in the first.

Chad Kackert is turning out to be a very fine player for the Argos and helped them put 14 points on the board last night. This guys rushing ability is simply a joy to watch - though he has to learn to hold on to the ball a bit better. :smile: Jerome Messan is Kackert's counterpart on the Edmonton team and he showed his rushing ability last night gaining much needed 1rst downs on second attempts.

The Argo defense was outstanding last night, able to get to Rickie Ray for several sacks on the night. It was exciting to see the Argos get to the much vaunted Edmonton offense.

Dalton Bell was in as QB for the Als as Cleo Lemon was out with an injury. Spencer Watt was Bell's go to guy for passes last night and caught some beauty's to give the Argos some good gains and field position.

The Esks had a chance to bring the score within one point at 8:33 in the 4th when Fred Stamps caught a pass for TD in the end zone. Jim Barker challenged the call of a completed pass and upon review the officials agreed and the TD was wiped out. The Als settled for a field goal.

Turn-overs played a big part in the game, giving the Argos a total of 11 points just on T.Os alone. Both teams had trouble holding onto the ball at times.

At 4:17 in the 4th, Rickie was able to connect again with Fred in the end zone and the Esks led for the first time in the game and were able to hold on for the win.

Final score: Edmonton 26 - Argos 25.

 

[talloola]

I was busy helping a neighbor yesterday and didn't get to tune into the Hamilton vs Montreal game until late in the 3rd quarter so I was astonished to see that Hamilton was leading the Als.

Avon Cobourne is showing his stuff for the Ti-Cats just as he did for the Als, wonder if they miss him yet. :smile:

Anthony was back after leaving the game against the Riders last week with an eye injury but that didn't seem to help the fortunes of the Als much as Hamilton held on to take the win - 34 to 26. It was the second straight loss for Montreal and the first time they have gone for two consecutive losses since 2008.

Why, with so few games in the CFL, we have to have two games on one night is beyond me - you think they could stretch them out a bit more. Then we wouldn't have to miss the opening plays of games as happened last night when the Edmonton vs Argo game was joined already in progress with only 3:21 left in the first.

Chad Kackert is turning out to be a very fine player for the Argos and helped them put 14 points on the board last night. This guys rushing ability is simply a joy to watch - though he has to learn to hold on to the ball a bit better. :smile: Jerome Messan is Kackert's counterpart on the Edmonton team and he showed his rushing ability last night gaining much needed 1rst downs on second attempts.

The Argo defense was outstanding last night, able to get to Rickie Ray for several sacks on the night. It was exciting to see the Argos get to the much vaunted Edmonton offense.

Dalton Bell was in as QB for the Als as Cleo Lemon was out with an injury. Spencer Watt was Bell's go to guy for passes last night and caught some beauty's to give the Argos some good gains and field position.

The Esks had a chance to bring the score within one point at 8:33 in the 4th when Fred Stamps caught a pass for TD in the end zone. Jim Barker challenged the call of a completed pass and upon review the officials agreed and the TD was wiped out. The Als settled for a field goal.

Turn-overs played a big part in the game, giving the Argos a total of 11 points just on T.Os alone. Both teams had trouble holding onto the ball at times.

At 4:17 in the 4th, Rickie was able to connect again with Fred in the end zone and the Esks led for the first time in the game and were able to hold on for the win.

Final score: Edmonton 26 - Argos 25.

I watched the last half or so. Good game, felt a bit sorry for argos, it was their game most of the way,
but a couple of those throws and catches by edmonton were sweet.
I still don't really know why that one touchdown throw was deemed incomplete. If the ball comes out of
the receivers hand, doesn't it have to touch the ground to be incomplete?
He grabbed the ball between his knees after it left his hands,and held on to it, and went out of play. I don't know the rules
too well, but that ball didn't touch the ground,so I need verification on that one.

He should pick one because he can't do two successfully. It's like he hasn't had time to evaluate a runningback and stuck with a washed up Jamal Robertson. Now he's throwing in Brown hoping he can become a running game. The rest of the league has moved well beyond the development of this team. Unfortunately Wally hasn't had to deal with any heat, the owner just keeps backing him without question. The team just isn't responding to his demands, if he has any, and he sticks with the same old assistant coaches who've accomplished nothing. Something has to change and he needs to be the catalyst. Either he steps aside his GM duties and allows someone to gather talent while he focuses on the game plan or he gets someone in to kick some butt while he spends time gathering talent. The dual role is not working.

His coaching is just fine. Apparantly the owner is leaving at the end of this season, (at least that is
what team 1040 imply, because he wants to concentrate on his other team), and will sell the Lions, no
confirmation on this, just radio chit chat.

Maybe at the end of this season Wally will take the GM spot, and find another coach, (not because he
isn't doing a good job), but because he's getting older now, and might want to step out, and into
the GM position.
Just as Mowich says, the heat falls all over the coach and others. The lions could win their next game
and go on t have a good season, then what.
The fans 'cannot' and 'will not' deal with losses, but the process is so important, and in almost
every game, the lions could have come out with the win. Missed assignments on the field, not difficult
plays at all, just mistakes, that tells me it is tension/nerves/inexperience.

I hate the idea of firing everyone just to satisfy the fans, when one can see that these players have
the ability, and just aren't doing it. Such a fine line between winning and losing.

A player, coached properly, and giving full effort, can be the difference of 'night and day' from the
beginning of a season to the end.

And, of course some just aren't going to get it done, some just don't fit in, some have bad attitudes,
so the coach/gm must adjust and juggle throughout the season.

I like Mowich's post, and I will ride this season out, because those games haven't been played yet, and
if they don't do well all season, we'll all still be alive, (except the fans that jump of bridges), and
they can change things for next year. I know this is a big year because of b.c. place, and want the
lions to be in the game, but if they aren't, they aren't, the game is sold out, it will be a great event,
with or without the lions.
Firing coaches and managers right now will NOT change anything this season, if the
problem persists all season, address it in the off season.

GO LIONS GO

 

[wulfie68]

Firing coaches and managers right now will NOT change anything this season, if the
problem persists all season, address it in the off season.

GO LIONS GO

I agree with this statement 100%. I'm not a Lions fan, but anyone who has watched football should be able to realize that removal of a regime doesn't happen as easily as it does in hockey, which is what most Canadian fans relate easiest to. In the NHL, after a slow start, you can fire the coach and still have a good season (as Pittsburgh showed a few years back when they fired Michel Therien and replaced hmi with Dan Bylsma at Christmas, then won the Stanley Cup). In football, unless the strategies employed by the successive staffs are practically identical, all you do by firing a coach is send a message to the locker room that things are REALLY bad (which is self evident) and drastic change is on the way (again something that shuold be apparent to players and coaches if the noise in the media is at that point). Management is realistically writing off the season. Football, with its big play books and short seasons is a game of off-season change, not mid-season change.

 

[talloola]

I agree with this statement 100%. I'm not a Lions fan, but anyone who has watched football should be able to realize that removal of a regime doesn't happen as easily as it does in hockey, which is what most Canadian fans relate easiest to. In the NHL, after a slow start, you can fire the coach and still have a good season (as Pittsburgh showed a few years back when they fired Michel Therien and replaced hmi with Dan Bylsma at Christmas, then won the Stanley Cup). In football, unless the strategies employed by the successive staffs are practically identical, all you do by firing a coach is send a message to the locker room that things are REALLY bad (which is self evident) and drastic change is on the way (again something that shuold be apparent to players and coaches if the noise in the media is at that point). Management is realistically writing off the season. Football, with its big play books and short seasons is a game of off-season change, not mid-season change.

yes, I totally agree with the football/hockey differences, very true.

too much strategy to change in a far too short season. And, if wally stepped down and handed it over
to someone from inside, what on earth would be the difference.

Keep it going, and keep improving, that is the only chance for success, and if there is 'no' success,
well the writing is on the wall for next year, and wally will deal with it later.

 

[damngrumpy]

Wally is like an orphan child Acles is dead and can no longer help this pitiful impostor.
Wally always takes over a team someone else built from the ground up and milks it for
all its worth until the proud championship team is completely in the toilet. Calgary is a
prime example. When Dave Dickerson came available Wally passed and Dave is now
in Calgary. It was time for Wally to get sacked last year and this year will be a good one
compared to next year, for the Lions under his leadership.
He is the winning-est coach only because others built strong teams for him to come and
manage. He might be the winning-est coach but in my view he is the biggest loser in the
CFL.
No don't fire him keep him around so Saskatchewan can take advantage of the situation.

GO RIDERS GO

 

[Mowich]

As I understood the ruling on Fred's TD, the officials stated that he did not have complete possession of the ball before he had contact with the ground and that allowed the pass interference call on the Esk defender for which the flag was initially thrown and for which the Argos were penalized 10 or 15 yards, can't remember exactly which now. Anyway that is how I saw the ruling after review and thought it a good smart move by Jim Barker to challenge the initial call, especially after watching multiple replays.

When Weston Dressler ran into the end zone for the TD last week, I almost burst into tears - I was that happy for the team. They so needed that boost of confidence they got from beating Montreal.

I read in the LP that the it is yet another sold-out crowd in Mosaic tonight as the Riders prepare to meet the Calgary Stampeders. Honestly, I have no idea what to expect tonight. Playing in front of their fans is always a boost for the Riders but they have to be on their game every single minute or the Stamps will get them.

The Stamps have motivation aplenty to win this game after going down to Edmonton last week.

If each and every one of them takes care of their assignments, plays by the rules and gives it their absolute best - they have every chance of winning. I sure hope they do.

Go, Riders, Go!

 

[Kreskin]

The Lions just finished two straight losing seasons and now they are 0-5, so what evidence is there that Wally is doing a good job?

 

[talloola]

The Lions just finished two straight losing seasons and now they are 0-5, so what evidence is there that Wally is doing a good job?

They had a pretty good second half last season, and this season isn't over, can't comment till it is.

You should know by now that I don't dwell on losses, and don't go into a depression if my team isn't
at the top of the heap, for me its all about 'the game', how its played, the process. As I stated
before, the only game they looked awful in was against Edmonton, the rest could have gone either way,
just didn't.

All of the teams want to win, 8 teams, and every week 4 have to lose, and yes, lions are losing more
than their share, but I think there are 14 games in a season right?, so we'll see after that.

It just doesn't bother me, and I do think wally is a very good coach, win or lose, after all these
years, it isn't he who has forgotton how to coach, its the players who are f***king up, and not
doing what they have been asked.

Just like Mowich said, till sask. won their first one this year, they were getting same feedback
as you are giving, then all of a sudden a win, and silence, but they better win again and again,
only way to satisfy the fans, thats all they care about, winning, nothing else is acceptable.

GO LIONS GO

 

[Kreskin]

That's the nature of professional sports. Winning matters, and when a team can't win then someone takes responsibility. If these guys are f.king up then why are they there?

 

[Mowich]

Just like Mowich said, till sask. won their first one this year, they were getting same feedback as you are giving, then all of a sudden a win, and silence, but they better win again and again, only way to satisfy the fans, thats all they care about, winning, nothing else is acceptable.GO LIONS GO

I expect the hue and cry to begin all over again after the Riders 22 to 18 loss to Calgary last night.

 

[Kreskin]

David Braley flew into Vancouver to meet with Wally after the 0-5 start.