2006 Canadian Election.. call it right away?

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Do you think an election should be called right away?

I've been looking for a famous quotation, something about the "dead hand of government"

Don't bother...I can match you quote for quote.

I don't think there is much that the government can do right. I don't care what color it is.

So you'd rather put yourself in the hands of a bunch of foreigners who you will never get to vote for and don't if you exist or not.

It is completely rife with inefficiencies, bloated bureacracies that only serve themselves, it is unanswerable to anyone.

The same can be said of any large corporation. Especially the unanswerable part. When was the last time you got to vote for who the CEO of GM was going to be?

It is incompetent and corrupt - a black hole sucking our money with little return.

Again...no different than the corporate world.

We need to shrink government down radically.

We've already done that and more. You are singing a song that's a quarter of a century old and has become increasingly invalid over the past decade.

Where do I fit in? I'm socially liberal, but fiscally conservative.

You should read up on Tommy Douglas. Since you are so uncomfortable with what you consider the left though, might I again suggest the Progressive Canadians. I'll toss in the Green Party too...they are very much fiscally conservative.

So many of these programs are plagued by abuse and fraud.

Not to harp on it, but the private sector is at least as bad.

 

[MMMike]

Re: Do you think an election should be called right away?

So you'd rather put yourself in the hands of a bunch of foreigners who you will never get to vote for and don't if you exist or not.

Quote:
It is completely rife with inefficiencies, bloated bureacracies that only serve themselves, it is unanswerable to anyone.


The same can be said of any large corporation. Especially the unanswerable part. When was the last time you got to vote for who the CEO of GM was going to be?

Quote:
It is incompetent and corrupt - a black hole sucking our money with little return.


Again...no different than the corporate world.

I disagree. A corporation is answerable to its shareholders every minute of every day. People vote with their feet, if they don't like company A, they sell it and buy company B. There is a constant overriding need to reduce costs, boost efficiency, reinvent itself to deliver a better product to the consumer, and to deliver a bigger profit to the shareholder.

It is answerable to its consumers/customers. Again, they don't like the product they can buy it somewhere else.

 

[DasFX]

Re: Do you think an election should be called right away?

You should read up on Tommy Douglas. Since you are so uncomfortable with what you consider the left though, might I again suggest the Progressive Canadians. I'll toss in the Green Party too...they are very much fiscally conservative.

In my opinion, voting for one of these small parties would be wasting my vote. Under our current system of government, it just isn't a wise choice. Look how much support the Green party got last time and they had zero seats. Even if they had one, what power is there? If we had a proportional government, then that would be different story.

So many of these programs are plagued by abuse and fraud.

Not to harp on it, but the private sector is at least as bad.

Yes, but I'm not paying for it. If you are going to use my money to fund some program, it better be spent properly and honestly and not be taken advantage of by some crooked Canuck.

The expectations for the public sector are higher than the private sector. If you defraud a private company, you affect perhaps at most a few thousand folks, when you defraud the public sector your crime is against 32 million people.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Do you think an elect

It is not answerable to the population at large though, MMMikey. Is the board at Imperial tobacco answerable to non-smokers? The board at Molson's answerable to rye drinkers? Those are Canadian companies.

How about the board of Monsanto...are they answerable to Canadians? Is Exxon answerable to us? Wal-Mart? General Motors?

The answer is no. They are not answerable to us. We vote with our feet and the government props them up. They sell their products to us under other brand names, so we don't we're supporting them.

Your theory is too simplistic to make sense in the real world. Worse yet, you are saying that you have no appreciation of democratic principles.

 

[DasFX]

Re: Do you think an election should be called right away?

So you'd rather put yourself in the hands of a bunch of foreigners who you will never get to vote for and don't if you exist or not.

Quote:
It is completely rife with inefficiencies, bloated bureacracies that only serve themselves, it is unanswerable to anyone.


The same can be said of any large corporation. Especially the unanswerable part. When was the last time you got to vote for who the CEO of GM was going to be?

Quote:
It is incompetent and corrupt - a black hole sucking our money with little return.


Again...no different than the corporate world.

I disagree. A corporation is answerable to its shareholders every minute of every day. People vote with their feet, if they don't like company A, they sell it and buy company B. There is a constant overriding need to reduce costs, boost efficiency, reinvent itself to deliver a better product to the consumer, and to deliver a bigger profit to the shareholder.

It is answerable to its consumers/customers. Again, they don't like the product they can buy it somewhere else.

I agree with many of your points, however a national or provincial government cannot be run like a corporation. Most corporations’ primary goal is to make money and act in the best interests of its owners or shareholders, whereas the government's job is to govern in the best interests of all people, even if it isn't the cheapest or most fiscally sound thing to do.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Do you think an elect

The movie The Corporation is available on DVD now. You can rent it down at your nearest corporate video rental place (remember when they were all mom and pop operations owned by people in your neighbourhood?).

Anybody who thinks they support being ruled by corporations should watch that film. Several times.

 

[MMMike]

Re: Do you think an election should be called right away?

I agree with many of your points, however a national or provincial government cannot be run like a corporation. Most corporations’ primary goal is to make money and act in the best interests of its owners or shareholders, whereas the government's job is to govern in the best interests of all people, even if it isn't the cheapest or most fiscally sound thing to do.

I'm not suggesting that governments should, or even can be run like corporations. What I am saying is that they are huge, inefficient beasts, and they suck up huge amounts of tax money just in adminstrative and bureaucratic costs. Government departments also tend to take on a life of their own, unnecessarily complicating things or expanding their mandate just to justify their own existence. You want to help the poor? Don't create dozens of "social programs" to address their every need ('affordable housing', subsidized tuition, subsidized electricity, subsidized daycare, subsidized everything.....). Put the money directly back in their hands via a guaranteed minimum income, higher minimum wage, higher basic personal tax exemption.... there are a myriad better ways of helping the poor than funnelling taxpayer money through a dozen different government departments, each taking their cut.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Do you think an election should be called right away?

there are a myriad better ways of helping the poor than funnelling taxpayer money through a dozen different government departments, each taking their cut.

And the Conservative oppose almost all of them. It is the Conservatives that want low minimum wages, it is the Conservatives who oppose guaranteed minimum incomes, it is the Conservatives that want to give corporate tax cuts before they give cuts to the rest of us. Why not? It was the Conservatives who shifted the tax burden from being evenly split between business and individuals to resting mostly on the shoulders on individuals.

 

[MMMike]

Re: Do you think an election should be called right away?

there are a myriad better ways of helping the poor than funnelling taxpayer money through a dozen different government departments, each taking their cut.

And the Conservative oppose almost all of them. It is the Conservatives that want low minimum wages, it is the Conservatives who oppose guaranteed minimum incomes, it is the Conservatives that want to give corporate tax cuts before they give cuts to the rest of us. Why not? It was the Conservatives who shifted the tax burden from being evenly split between business and individuals to resting mostly on the shoulders on individuals.

Jesus, Rev, I'm not here shilling for the Conservatives. They are pro-business, and for smaller government as am I. For the rest they are pig f*ckers like all the rest of them.

I'm still not sure if we agree on this point or not: that it is better to put money back in poor people's hands directly than to offer them a smorgasbord of subsidies and social programs. :scratch:

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Do you think an elect

The movie The Corporation is available on DVD now. You can rent it down at your nearest corporate video rental place (remember when they were all mom and pop operations owned by people in your neighbourhood?).

Anybody who thinks they support being ruled by corporations should watch that film. Several times.

Rev are you speaking of the one with Noam Chomsky?

 

[MMMike]

Re: Do you think an election should be called right away?

Noam Chomsky

ukeright:

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Do you think an elect

Yes, he's in it, I think not. So are a lot of other people, including people from the corporate world.

MMMikey...I think you should read the Changes to Terms of Service

 

[snoproblem]

Re: Do you think an election should be called right away?

I think Harper and the Conservatives are shooting themselves in the foot, big time. The public doesn't seem to have the will to go to the polls right away, but Harper is forcing the issue. If you ask me, he's making himself look cynical, and over-ambitious.

If the voters see it the same way, the Tories will pay at the polls, right along with the Libs.

Frankly, IMO, the only winners in this scenario will be the Bloc and the NDP... and possibly the Greens.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Do you think an elect

Yes, he's in it, I think not. So are a lot of other people, including people from the corporate world.

MMMikey...I think you should read the Changes to Terms of Service

I've heard alot about that documentary, I'll watch it...several times.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Do you think an election should be called right away?

I think Harper and the Conservatives are shooting themselves in the foot, big time. The public doesn't seem to have the will to go to the polls right away, but Harper is forcing the issue. If you ask me, he's making himself look cynical, and over-ambitious.

That's been showing up in the polls too...they are slipping. According to everything I've seen in the last week, the Conservatives are running neck and neck with the Liberals.

We might get a Conservative minority, but if we do they'll be facing three parties who do not agree with most of their policies. I doubt a Conservative minority will last a year.

If they do get minority the NDP and Bloc should push hard for PR though. That will almost certainly come with set election dates, so it will stop this crap where nothing gets done.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: Do you think an elect

The movie The Corporation is available on DVD now. You can rent it down at your nearest corporate video rental place (remember when they were all mom and pop operations owned by people in your neighbourhood?).

Anybody who thinks they support being ruled by corporations should watch that film. Several times.

I was shocked and appalled by the interview with Michael Walker of the Fraser Institute, where he claimed that the corporations are doing third world countries a favour by exploiting their workers...

 

[mrmom2]

Re: Do you think an election should be called right away?

Faser Institute is short for step on anybody or thing to make a buck F..KING NEOCON INSTITUE is what it should be called death to the lot of them the pricks :evil:

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Do you think an elect

That's the Fraser Institute. It's amazing how many times they are quoted in the press without it ever being mentioned that they are a radical right think tank that does no original research.

 

[mrmom2]

Re: Do you think an election should be called right away?

I'm with you on them Rev :wink: The worst damn group I've ever read all they do is bash our school system out here

 

[no1important]

RE: Do you think an elect

I see even Belinda Stronach thinks a rush election is risky. Here