2000 and counting :-(

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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#juan said:
2000 and counting...

What's the other side of this coin..How about a hundred thousand Iraqis Dead, and at least that number horribly maimed in the same time period.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/10/28/iraq_deaths041028.html

you are absolutely right. the stats of the Iraqis KILLED, MURDERED and MAIMED are equally if not MORE Important. They are the victims of this murderous us regime.

(due to a serious lack of respect for the "US".....might be using small letters for it now. (u.s) Never thought it would come to this.... and what a dissapointment. )
 

jimmoyer

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LIMITED PRECISION ---- is that a mutually exlusive phrase?

This 100,000 figure may or may not be true, but it is taken as true by those against this war.

But just take a gander at the method. I wonder how they take into account constant migration, lack of records, and the hearsay and memory of witnesses under great stress.


The report in the British journal is based on the work of teams from Johns Hopkins University, Columbia University and the Al-Mustansiriya University in Baghdad. The authors acknowledge that the data cited in the study might be of "limited precision."

The information was obtained as Iraqi interviewers surveyed 808 families, consisting of 7,868 people, in 33 different "clusters" or neighbourhoods spread across the country.

In each case, they asked how many births and deaths there had been in the home since January 2002.

That information was then compared with the death rates in each neighbourhood in the 15 months before the invasion that toppled president Saddam Hussein, adjusted for the different time frames, and extrapolated to cover the entire 24.4 million population of Iraq.

So feel free to bandy about these hard, precise numbers.
Use them as a prop for your arguments.
 

Ocean Breeze

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This 100,000 figure may or may not be true, but it is taken as true by those against this war

weather it is accurate or not.........the point is that the invading criminals don't even have the decency to count the ones they KILLED.

"we don't do body counts"..........which is BS as they sure do u.s. body counts.......and that is why 2000 is a milestone. Ya see it is only the u.s. lives that matter. Iraqis lives are inconsequential. They are simply in the way as the robber criminal takes over their land and resources.------while pretending to give them "freedom" and all the other bullcrap we have been fed. (good thing many of us don't buy into the USR "sh*t"....as that is what it is. But that does not change the destruction it has done and is doing.

Dang........IF the US was so perturbed with SH........they could have assassinated him......and blamed it on who ever was the fall guy for the day. But SH conduct was not the issue..... so let's not play those games. The u.s. plays down and dirty with the worst of them.
 

jimmoyer

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I thought we saw another reason why civilian body counts are rarely done in any war and why the mechanics of that is so horrendous that the readers, the voters, the people, the partisans are not worth being provided such information for their masturbatory pleasure, or as props for partisans on both sides to doubt or uphold.

Such statistics are always dubious by the very nature of the hell in which soldiers and doctors and eye witnesses must count it.

Just for you?

None of us are worth putting someone else through that hell of counting.

Soldiers will always be easily enumerated because their fellow platooners know who got gutted into a bloody pool.
 

Ocean Breeze

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None of us are worth putting someone else through that hell of counting.


Interesting "philosophy"..........as there seems to be no problem with the KILLING. :evil: :evil: Wonder how the kinfolk of the dead feel.

Nazi germany had one thing going for it......and that was keeping meticulous records. ( including those of their concentration camps) While the u.s. cannot be bothered. :evil:
 

Reverend Blair

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The 100,000 number is the best available, Jimmy. Even the most conservative estimate, based on press reports (two sources required), puts the number over 30,000 though. The highest possible is around 500,000.

Do you think that even if that 30,000+ estimate is accurate, and those who put it together acknowledge that it is almost certainly very low, do you think that somehow redeems the US, the Bush administration, and those who seem to think that dead Iraqis aren't a real problem.

Will the US also take responsibility for all those who were maimed? Who is going to pay for the generations of Iraqis who will die prematurely or be born disfigured because of US use of depleted uranium, a banned weapon?

You started an illegal war, Jimmy. You failed to protect civilians. You targeted infrastructure that is off limits according to laws and agreements that you signed. You failed to prevent looting. You used banned weapons (DU and napalm).

Who is going to stand trial for your nation's crimes, Jimmy?
 

Reverend Blair

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Are you? You seem unwilling to take responsibility and most of the work that needs to be in Iraq because of your bombing is to be paid for with Iraqi oil money. Of course the Iraqis will have considerably less of that because of the illegal (according to international and US military law) changes that you made to their economy. According to Paul Bremer's edicts, that can not be changed by any new Iraqi government.
 

Ocean Breeze

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According to Paul Bremer's edicts, that can not be changed by any new Iraqi government.


this is one of the dirtiest things the bushregime has done. So how can they claim that Iraq is "free"? When the u.s. tentacles are clinging on with vicious ,greedy talons.? But nothing lasts forever.
 

jimmoyer

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It would be the better part of discretion, Ocean Breeze not to rush into the arms of every utterance by the Rev as unassailable fact.

There are no edicts by the long gone Bremer that the Iraqis would follow if they didn't want to for the time being.

They got bigger fish to fry.
 

Reverend Blair

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Yet Bremer clearly said that they could not change his edicts even in their own constitution. Since the US has a history of bombing the crap out of Iraq, how willing do you think they'd be to defy that edict, Jimmy?
 

gopher

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Minnesota: Gopher State
While Americans die in Bush's blood for oil war, Exxon gets record profits:

Exxon Mobil Profits Soar on Surging Oil and Gas Prices
By VIKAS BAJAJ
and JAD MOUAWAD
Published: October 27, 2005
Exxon Mobil and other energy companies reported strong gains in their third-quarter profits today on surging prices of oil and gasoline both before and after the hurricanes struck the Gulf Coast.

The world's largest publicly traded oil company, Exxon Mobil said its earnings jumped 75 percent. Royal Dutch, meanwhile, said its earnings climbed 68 percent, and Marathon Oil said its earnings more than tripled.

Some of the increase in profits was attributable to rising oil prices this summer even before Hurricanes Katrina and Rita struck the Gulf Coast. After the hurricanes, though, the price of gasoline, diesel, jet fuel and other refined oil products soared because of shutdowns at refineries in Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

Exxon, based in Irving, Tex., outside Dallas, said the hurricanes took down 50,000 barrels of oil production a day and raised the company's costs by $45 million before taxes. Natural gas production fell 9 percent, to 7.7 million cubic feet a day.

The company's top executive appeared to address and deflect the public backlash that followed Katrina when gasoline prices soared past $3 a gallon in many cities.

"Following the hurricanes, Exxon Mobil maximized gasoline production from all of our refineries which were operating in the U.S., and increased imports from overseas affiliates to meet U.S. demand," Lee R. Raymond, Exxon's chief executive and chairman, said in a statement. "We acted responsibly in pricing at our company operated service stations, and we also encouraged our independent retailers and distributors to do the same."

But the news of the record profits by oil companies is sure to draw criticism by politicians and energy industry critics, who say the industry has not done enough to invest in increasing oil and gasoline supplies even as they earn billions of dollars.

Today, Exxon Mobil reported net income of $9.92 billion, or $1.58 a share, in the third quarter, up from $5.68 billion, or 88 cents a share, a year earlier. Revenue jumped 31.9 percent, to $100.7 billion, from $76.38 billion.

The company's profits included a special one-time gain of $1.6 billion from the restructuring of the company's stake in a Dutch gas business. Without that, profits for the third quarter were $8.3 billion.

This year, Exxon Mobil's nine-month profits - $25 billion - are so far equal to those of 2004, already a record year for the company. Its sales are on track to exceed those of Wal-Mart this year.

Meanwhile, Royal Dutch Shell, the world's third-largest oil company, reported third-quarter net income of $9.03 billion, $1.35 a share, up from $5.37 billion, or 80 cents a share, in the comparable quarter of 2004. Revenue rose 6 percent, to $94.7 billion, from $89 billion.

And Marathon Oil reported third quarter net income of $770 million, or $2.09 a share, up from $222 million, or 64 cents a share, a year earlier. Revenue jumped 40 percent, to $17.2 billion, from $12.3 billion.

This year is shaping to be an exceptionally lucrative one for the entire oil industry. Chevron, the second-largest American oil company, is expected to post a quarterly profit of $4 billion on Friday.

Oil companies must contend with charges they are making too much money after a series of hurricanes curbed domestic production from the Gulf of Mexico and briefly pushed prices above $70 a barrel. For the first time in a generation, gasoline lines reappeared in America this summer, pushing fuel prices above $3 a gallon, a record even when adjusted for inflation.

Among those assailing the oil companies is Senator Byron L. Dorgan, a Democrat from North Dakota, who introduced legislation last month to impose a windfall tax on oil companies.

But Exxon bristled at suggestions that oil companies should be taxed more. For the full year, the company said it planned to invest about $18 billion in capital and exploration investments.

"If you're trying to encourage supply growth, it seems odd to put in disincentives," Henry Hubble, Exxon Mobil's vice president for investor relations, said in a conference call with Wall Street analysts and investors today. "You've got to let the market work."

In the third quarter, Exxon Mobil said it invested $4.4 billion on capital and exploration projects, up 22 percent from the comparable quarter last year. All told, the company said its capital investments totaled $12.4 billion for the first nine months of 2005.

But in another sign that oil companies are making more money than they can reinvest back into their business, Exxon Mobil said it returned $6.8 billion back to shareholders in the form of share buybacks and dividends.

In an interview on Fox News television 10 days ago, Mr. Raymond, Exxon Mobil's chief executive, sought to quell some of the criticism.

"The question of how much money we make - profit is not a dirty word. And it's absolutely required in our industry to have an adequate level of profit to be able to continue to invest."

Later in the program, when asked whether Exxon Mobil's profits were "obscene," he said: "No, I don't think they're obscene. I don't think they're obscene at all."

A spokesman said Mr. Raymond, who is due to retire at the end of the year after a dozen years at the head of the company, would not be available for comment today.

Shares of Exxon Mobil were trading up 7 cents, to $56.27, this afternoon on the New York Stock Exchange.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
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gopher said:
While Americans die in Bush's blood for oil war, Exxon gets record profits:

Exxon Mobil Profits Soar on Surging Oil and Gas Prices
By VIKAS BAJAJ
and JAD MOUAWAD
Published: October 27, 2005
Exxon Mobil and other energy companies reported strong gains in their third-quarter profits today on surging prices of oil and gasoline both before and after the hurricanes struck the Gulf Coast.

The world's largest publicly traded oil company, Exxon Mobil said its earnings jumped 75 percent. Royal Dutch, meanwhile, said its earnings climbed 68 percent, and Marathon Oil said its earnings more than tripled.

Some of the increase in profits was attributable to rising oil prices this summer even before Hurricanes Katrina and Rita struck the Gulf Coast. After the hurricanes, though, the price of gasoline, diesel, jet fuel and other refined oil products soared because of shutdowns at refineries in Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

Exxon, based in Irving, Tex., outside Dallas, said the hurricanes took down 50,000 barrels of oil production a day and raised the company's costs by $45 million before taxes. Natural gas production fell 9 percent, to 7.7 million cubic feet a day.

The company's top executive appeared to address and deflect the public backlash that followed Katrina when gasoline prices soared past $3 a gallon in many cities.

"Following the hurricanes, Exxon Mobil maximized gasoline production from all of our refineries which were operating in the U.S., and increased imports from overseas affiliates to meet U.S. demand," Lee R. Raymond, Exxon's chief executive and chairman, said in a statement. "We acted responsibly in pricing at our company operated service stations, and we also encouraged our independent retailers and distributors to do the same."

But the news of the record profits by oil companies is sure to draw criticism by politicians and energy industry critics, who say the industry has not done enough to invest in increasing oil and gasoline supplies even as they earn billions of dollars.

Today, Exxon Mobil reported net income of $9.92 billion, or $1.58 a share, in the third quarter, up from $5.68 billion, or 88 cents a share, a year earlier. Revenue jumped 31.9 percent, to $100.7 billion, from $76.38 billion.

The company's profits included a special one-time gain of $1.6 billion from the restructuring of the company's stake in a Dutch gas business. Without that, profits for the third quarter were $8.3 billion.

This year, Exxon Mobil's nine-month profits - $25 billion - are so far equal to those of 2004, already a record year for the company. Its sales are on track to exceed those of Wal-Mart this year.

Meanwhile, Royal Dutch Shell, the world's third-largest oil company, reported third-quarter net income of $9.03 billion, $1.35 a share, up from $5.37 billion, or 80 cents a share, in the comparable quarter of 2004. Revenue rose 6 percent, to $94.7 billion, from $89 billion.

And Marathon Oil reported third quarter net income of $770 million, or $2.09 a share, up from $222 million, or 64 cents a share, a year earlier. Revenue jumped 40 percent, to $17.2 billion, from $12.3 billion.

This year is shaping to be an exceptionally lucrative one for the entire oil industry. Chevron, the second-largest American oil company, is expected to post a quarterly profit of $4 billion on Friday.

Oil companies must contend with charges they are making too much money after a series of hurricanes curbed domestic production from the Gulf of Mexico and briefly pushed prices above $70 a barrel. For the first time in a generation, gasoline lines reappeared in America this summer, pushing fuel prices above $3 a gallon, a record even when adjusted for inflation.

Among those assailing the oil companies is Senator Byron L. Dorgan, a Democrat from North Dakota, who introduced legislation last month to impose a windfall tax on oil companies.

But Exxon bristled at suggestions that oil companies should be taxed more. For the full year, the company said it planned to invest about $18 billion in capital and exploration investments.

"If you're trying to encourage supply growth, it seems odd to put in disincentives," Henry Hubble, Exxon Mobil's vice president for investor relations, said in a conference call with Wall Street analysts and investors today. "You've got to let the market work."

In the third quarter, Exxon Mobil said it invested $4.4 billion on capital and exploration projects, up 22 percent from the comparable quarter last year. All told, the company said its capital investments totaled $12.4 billion for the first nine months of 2005.

But in another sign that oil companies are making more money than they can reinvest back into their business, Exxon Mobil said it returned $6.8 billion back to shareholders in the form of share buybacks and dividends.

In an interview on Fox News television 10 days ago, Mr. Raymond, Exxon Mobil's chief executive, sought to quell some of the criticism.

"The question of how much money we make - profit is not a dirty word. And it's absolutely required in our industry to have an adequate level of profit to be able to continue to invest."

Later in the program, when asked whether Exxon Mobil's profits were "obscene," he said: "No, I don't think they're obscene. I don't think they're obscene at all."

A spokesman said Mr. Raymond, who is due to retire at the end of the year after a dozen years at the head of the company, would not be available for comment today.

Shares of Exxon Mobil were trading up 7 cents, to $56.27, this afternoon on the New York Stock Exchange.


thanks for posting this gopher. Sure makes it easier for them to "grieve" their loss of life with a substansive balance.and profit margin. (sarcasm......intended)

this of course defines the u.s. value system. :evil:
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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The oil companies are making a profit with or without the war in Iraq.

As the angry mob approaches they're looking for the nearest tree possessing no self-doubt, possessing a sureness that is a menace to behold.

The oil companies are making a profit with or without the war in Iraq. They've been known to make a profit regardless of peace or war.
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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I never said there was an edict about bombing, Jimmy. I did say that the US would very likely take over again, by bombing, to be sure Bremer's edicts weren't changed.

They don't just cover oil, of course. There are edicts about saving seeds and edicts about requiring foreign corporations to pay taxes. It's bizarre and illegal (under US military law as well as international law) but there it is.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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That's hardly a balanced source. I just wanted to read what the edicts were, what the exact wording was and what the alleged reasoning behind them if any ---not some opinion piece going wild.

You're just as bad as the Radical Right when they read their own diatribes and take it for fact.