Obama has chosen his VP...

[#juan]

Many of the Hillary supporters are making waves right now. Lets face it, even the few comments that Biden made during the candidate campaign is making headlines. Hillary has an entire portfolio of attack ads against Obama. He'd be skewed by taking her. As will McCain if he picks Romney. I'm beginning to understand why George Bush Sr picked Dan Quayle.

I have followed American elections for almost fifty years. There used to be some honour involved in that if you lost the nomination you threw all your backing behind the one who won the nomination. Hanging in and back-stabbing a fellow party member the way Hillary is doing is screwing the whole system.

If you win the nomination, you want to pick somebody as your running mate who is less attractive to the populous than you are for obvious reasons...

 

[talloola]

Many of Hilliary's supporters are prepairing with signs, and the whole ten yards, to make
it quite clear, that they are still standing behind her, even though they know Obama is
the clear winner. The party is preparing for those people at the convention, which starts
very soon, and they have an area where they can do 'their thing', but they have stated
they will not allow anything out of the ordinary, that would attract 'negative' attention.

The republicans are 'licking' their lips waiting to trash them for what the hilliary people do.
I also think that most of the people who won't go from hilliary to obama, are prejudice, and are using other excuses, but JUST WONT VOTE FOR A BLACK MAN., it seems pretty
clear to me. otherwise they would have graciously stepped aside, as usual.

 

[Walter]

I also think that most of the people who won't go from hilliary to obama, are prejudice, and are using other excuses, but JUST WONT VOTE FOR A BLACK MAN., it seems pretty clear to me. otherwise they would have graciously stepped aside, as usual.

Bloody people who want someone with experience for the job.

 

[thomaska]

Everyone stand by for the ads that will be coming out from the McCain camp soon.

They will prominently feature video and audio clips of Joe Biden saying Obama has no experience whatsoever, and will also show Joe biden praising John McCain.

Should be fun.:smile:

 

[missile]

Do you think they envisioned having F18 Hornets back in the 1700's for the security of the state? And if it really is completely and literally "not to be infringed", based solely on that sentence written by men 220 years ago, then people should be able to own Hornets, AWACS, Warthogs, Nukes, and anything else that bears arms unless the constitution is ammended again.

Does the NRA support people owning nukes? You can't cherry pick what people can and can't do then claim to be a defender of the constitution either. The judiciary has some leeway in interpreting what is constitutionally correct for the times, not the NRA.

Totally agree:smile: Every American should be allowed to own one musket and a supply of black powder.

 

[Colpy]

Do you think they envisioned having F18 Hornets back in the 1700's for the security of the state? And if it really is completely and literally "not to be infringed", based solely on that sentence written by men 220 years ago, then people should be able to own Hornets, AWACS, Warthogs, Nukes, and anything else that bears arms unless the constitution is ammended again.

Does the NRA support people owning nukes? You can't cherry pick what people can and can't do then claim to be a defender of the constitution either. The judiciary has some leeway in interpreting what is constitutionally correct for the times, not the NRA.

This is not a sensible argument, IMHO....no one has ever argued that the right to keep and bear arms extends any futher than personal weapons......one must consider the intent of the people that wrote the Bill of Rights....and that is made clear by their own writing at the time.

The purpose is that a citizen can defend himself as an individual, or he can show up for communal defense with his own personal weapons. That means the individual has a right to keep weapons that are roughly the equivalent of the personal weapons carried by the soldier of the day.....in 1785 a muzzle-loading musket or rifle, in 2008 an "assault rifle". (although I hate that term)

The F-18 and nuke argument is misdirection......that is not the debate, nor has the possession of cannon etc ever been the debate.

 

[Colpy]

Totally agree:smile: Every American should be allowed to own one musket and a supply of black powder.

And therefore the right to free speech means you can yell off a soap box and own a quill pen.....but the powers that be are allowed to tightly control electronic mass media or any amplified voice........

 

[Colpy]

Everyone stand by for the ads that will be coming out from the McCain camp soon.

They will prominently feature video and audio clips of Joe Biden saying Obama has no experience whatsoever, and will also show Joe biden praising John McCain.

Should be fun.:smile:

And back on subject...yeah, McCain has really taken up the slack recently....i hope he doesn't blow it.

 

[Kreskin]

This is not a sensible argument, IMHO....no one has ever argued that the right to keep and bear arms extends any futher than personal weapons......one must consider the intent of the people that wrote the Bill of Rights....and that is made clear by their own writing at the time.

The purpose is that a citizen can defend himself as an individual, or he can show up for communal defense with his own personal weapons. That means the individual has a right to keep weapons that are roughly the equivalent of the personal weapons carried by the soldier of the day.....in 1785 a muzzle-loading musket or rifle, in 2008 an "assault rifle". (although I hate that term)

The F-18 and nuke argument is misdirection......that is not the debate, nor has the possession of cannon etc ever been the debate.

Colpy, if you're now talking about what the intent was or that it is only about "personal" weapons then you're doing a form of what Republicans like to call 'legislating from the bench' if you ban other arms because there is no reference to it being personal weapons only. It mentions militia and the security of a free state, not the security of one's personal home from a burglar. There is no clear consensus to what the second amendment even means. To me the purpose of the original amendment was to defend the security of a free State, not the individual, because the republic didn't have the means to do it. The ability of people to defend the state government from external attack, not shoot to kill personal property trespassers. And if that is the case the original purpose is a moot. If it isn't, where do you draw the line? Semi-automatic weapons? Machine Guns? Rocket launchers? Any arms-bearing line-drawing is now an "infringment", if the sentence is to be taken literally.

I personally don't care if people own personal handguns. What I would have more issue with if I was an American would be the politicians and special interest groups framing the constitution from a literal sense and claiming anyone who interprets the constitution outside of the literal writing as being anti-constitutional, or in the case of a judge 'legislating from the bench'. Given the very few words written in the Constitution it is impossible to not to use interpretation, no matter which side of the fence one sits on.

 

[Kreskin]

Everyone stand by for the ads that will be coming out from the McCain camp soon.

They will prominently feature video and audio clips of Joe Biden saying Obama has no experience whatsoever, and will also show Joe biden praising John McCain.

Should be fun.:smile:

Nothing like what will be released if McCain picks Romney. It's one thing to pick out a few Biden statements from a candidate debate. It'll be another to run Romney's own negative McCain ads.

 

[dancing-loon]

Joseph Biden's view of the world's hot spots

IRAQ
Unlike Barack Obama, who opposed the war in Iraq from the beginning - but was not in the Senate at the time of the vote - Senator Biden voted in favour of an October 2002 resolution authorising President George W. Bush to use military force in Iraq.
Senator Biden however became a fierce critic of Mr Bush's Iraq policy, saying that while the United States should eliminate Saddam Hussein, a unilateral invasion was "the worst option''.

In a 2007 interview with The Politico, Senator Biden said he regretted voting for the war.
He fiercely opposed the so-called "surge'' of US troops to Iraq that Mr Bush ordered in early 2007.
He has proposed a plan to end the conflict by dividing Iraq into three largely autonomous ethnic regions - a southern Shiite region, a western Sunni region, and a northern Kurdish region - held together by a central government in Baghdad with limited powers.

AFGHANISTAN and PAKISTAN
Like Senator Obama, Senator Biden believes that the "real central front in the war on terrorism'' is not Iraq, "but rather the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan''.

"If we should have had a surge anywhere, it is Afghanistan,'' Senator Biden said in a recent opinion article in the New York Times, because "Afghanistan's fate is directly tied to Pakistan's future and America's security''.

"The recent Pakistani elections gave the moderate majority its voice back,'' Senator Biden wrote. "To demonstrate to its people that we care about their needs, not just our own, we must triple assistance for schools, roads and clinics, sustain it for a decade, and demand accountability for the military aid we provide.''
Senator Biden also called for Mr Bush to fulfill a pledge for a plan for Afghanistan along the lines of the Marshall Plan for the reconstruction of Europe after World War II.

IRAN
Also like Senator Obama, Senator Biden supports direct talks with Iran.
"I believe the United States should agree to directly engage Iran, first in the context of the 'P-5 plus 1', and ultimately country-to-country, just as we did with North Korea,'' Senator Biden said in an early July press statement.
The 'P-5 plus 1' refers to the five permanent UN Security Council members plus Germany.
"The net effect of demanding preconditions that Iran rejects is this: We get no results and Iran gets closer to the bomb,'' he said.

MIDDLE EAST

Senator Biden is a strong supporter of Israel.
"I am a Zionist,'' he said in a March 2007 interview with the US-based Jewish cable television network Shalom TV. "You don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist.''
He described Israel as "the single greatest strength America has in the Middle East''.
He traveled with Senator Obama to Israel in late July, when Senator Obama promised strong support for Israel against the threat from Iran, and said he would strongly support the Mid-East peace process soon after he takes office.

GEORGIA and RUSSIA
Senator Biden travelled to crisis-plagued Georgia last weekend on a fact-finding mission.
In mid-August, following the Russian military incursion into Georgia, Senator Biden said: "I have long sought to help Russia realise its extraordinary potential as a force for progress in the international community, and have supported legislative efforts intended to forge a more constructive relationship with the Kremlin.''

However, Russia's actions "will have consequences'' on its ties to Washington, he said.
"Russia's failure to keep its word and withdraw troops from Georgia risks the country's standing as part of the international community.''

http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=3741
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The worst, imo, about him is to declare himself a Zionist! I see no improvement for the Palestinians' lot should he and Obama move into the Oval Office.

Criticizing and threatening Russia will not improve East - West relations, only entrench each other's stance in resentment and hostility.

He waves the big stick, and that is wrong. I was happy Obama, whom I considered a soft and humble creature, won the nomination. His VP choice undoes all that, and my hope for a change for the better has faded.

His policy of doubling force for Afghanistan is ignoring the fact that the US raised and groomed the Taliban. In that respect he has the same attitude as Bush, who already has covert operations going on inside Pakistan.

Instead of peacefully dissolving conflicts, and avoiding confrontations he endorses aggression and confrontation.
Well.... we shall see what we shall see!

 

[talloola]

Joseph Biden's view of the world's is

Criticizing and threatening Russia will not improve East - West relations, only entrench each other's stance in resentment and hostility.

Russia was agressive and made foolish moves to cause misery and stress within Georgia,
and will not respond to anyone who is 'wishy washy' and accepting of their actions.

He waves the big stick, and that is wrong. I was happy Obama, whom I considered a soft and humble creature, won the nomination. His VP choice undoes all that, and my hope for a change for the better has faded.

I've never thought of Biden as, 'waving' any big stick, he has always been very diplomatic in his approach to world matters, and always made sure he went directly to the areas,
so that he can get his own assessment. He definitely is not a person of 'war', like Mccain and Bush, and would much rather find another way to resolve problems.
I don't agree that Obama is soft and humble at all, he is a true diplomat, but he can
see the big picture from both sides, and if he has to be assertive, he definitely will be that. Soft and humble sounds nice, but it won't 'ever' get anyone elected as president
of any country, and the republicans would love to hear someone call Obama' soft and
humble', as he's 'really' 'tough and diplomatic', which, to me are very strong assets.

His policy of doubling force for Afghanistan is ignoring the fact that the US raised and groomed the Taliban. In that respect he has the same attitude as Bush, who already has covert operations going on inside Pakistan.

Those days, when the u.s. helped the taliban, is history, and a completely different time, when the soviet union and the u.s. were in a 'cold war', times change, situations change, and we all have to remember that, and keep the history accurate.

Instead of peacefully dissolving conflicts, and avoiding confrontations he endorses aggression and confrontation.
I completely disagree with that assumption of Joe Biden, I have never seen him behave in that manner.

 

[Walter]

Gallup Daily: McCain, Obama Tied at 45%

Candidates begin convention period even

August 24, 2008
John McCain and Barack Obama are exactly tied at 45% in the latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking update. There was no immediate boost to Obama’s support coincident with the announcement of Joe Biden as his running mate.More ...

 

[Kreskin]

USA Today poll out today showed 51% of Americans don't know who Joe Biden is.

 

[dancing-loon]

I completely disagree with that assumption of Joe Biden, I have never seen him behave in that manner.

I know, talloola, I come from a different planet! Or there are two Bidens... the one you know and understand, and the one I read about in the above article. As Kreskin states, 51% of Americans don't know who Biden is. I only know him from his views and opinions of the world's trouble spots. That's where I judge him on for now.

The Americans wronged the Arab nations, and should finally stop abusing, exploiting and disrespecting them. In my opinion, Canada included, they should pay for the damage, apologize and leave their countries. I'm sure they would willingly sell us all the oil the West needs.

It is time to start respecting other nations! Wars should be made illegal!!!!

The very fact, which I just read today, that Biden as well as Obama will unquestionably support Israel tells me they are not one bit better than the Bush Neocons. How can they with a clean conscience side with a terror state? Have you, talloola, thought about that?

 

[Kreskin]

 

[Colpy]

That just brought the Senator up a couple of notches in my estimation.....

 

[talloola]

I know, talloola, I come from a different planet! Or there are two Bidens... the one you know and understand, and the one I read about in the above article. As Kreskin states, 51% of Americans don't know who Biden is. I only know him from his views and opinions of the world's trouble spots. That's where I judge him on for now.

The Americans wronged the Arab nations, and should finally stop abusing, exploiting and disrespecting them. In my opinion, Canada included, they should pay for the damage, apologize and leave their countries. I'm sure they would willingly sell us all the oil the West needs.

It is time to start respecting other nations! Wars should be made illegal!!!!

The very fact, which I just read today, that Biden as well as Obama will unquestionably support Israel tells me they are not one bit better than the Bush Neocons. How can they with a clean conscience side with a terror state? Have you, talloola, thought about that?

In respect to Israel, the u.s. will always be side by side with israel, doesn't matter who
is their president, in the past, and in the future. And, I don't disagree with that, but I do want to see the next president work more closely with both parties. It is a very difficult area, faults on both sides, and now the palestinians have more trouble within their own area, than the israelis give them, they have to sort that out, they voted in Hamas, and
opened up a new can of worms. They don't want peace, and neither do all of their arab
friends, who I notice, never lift a finger to help them, as they enjoy the suffering, as they can throw the blame at Israel constantly.

Saudi Arabia enjoys the comforts of having the u.s. close by, very secure and comforting, and if they didn't want them there, they would tell them to leave, and they would have to, it's very simple, they asked them to help them in the Kuwait/Iraq war, instead of
Bin Laden, who wanted to use his own group to attack Iraq, Saudi Arabia turned him down, and chose the U.S., instead, which 'enraged' Bin Laden, as he is not a friend of
the saudi government, and has been more of a trouble maker there than help.

I don't know where you come from, never gave it a thought, but I do like Joe Biden, and
have followed his efforts for some time, as I stated before, so won't repeat myself.
I am not a lover of u.s. policy in many cases, but I like to follow each situation on it's
own, and not put them all in one basket. The South Koreans also could make them leave immediately, if they wanted to, why don't they, 'security', security, security.

They do have to get out of Iraq, and now the bush government is talking about a
exit strategy, something they wouldn't talk about, until now, as they can neutralize
Obama's exit strategy, by pretending they thought it about it first. Such children, they
are.

 

[dancing-loon]

Thank you, talloola, for your thoughtful response. I respect your preferences and don't wish to argue otherwise. We will see soon enough what the future will reveal to us.

 

[gopher]

Bloody people who want someone with experience for the job.

Bush had no national political experience before getting "elected" to the office of the presidency.