Dion's national program brings hope

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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He knows about Economics? Hell, so do I..... I even took a grade 12 high school class on Economics for an entire year..... Wow... I'm Qualified by those standards!

Of course I "Know about" Quantim Physics.... in which I have heard of it.... that doesn't mean I "Know" it.
Obviously Praxius, you are not qualified!
Dion taught political science.
Political science: politics is very intertwined with the economy. Politicians decide how to regulate the economy, how much and what to tax, create incentives to do positive things and disincentives to avoid negative things, which actions to take in a recession, what to subsidize, how to deal with the tradeoff between equity and efficiency, etc. Voters often vote based on the economy.
 

wallyj

just special
May 7, 2006
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For God's sake!
Stephan Dion has a PHD in sociology. He taught Public administration and political science. Economics play a heavy role in either of those fields.
Are you making this up as you go along? Economics is a very minor point in political science and public administration. Take a look at the overview for any political science course from any university and chances are the word economics will not be there. Check out Vassar and Lewis u's for a start. I know that taxes are needed to run politics,cities,etc.,but you are really going out on a limb to defend Dion by saying that economics is a large part of his background.......Here is a quick lesson in green economics. You take 15 billion from the west. Then you skim a little off the top and give the rest back to a targetted voting group.Voila,revenue neutral. Does jacksheet for the enviroment,but will buy votes for your party. The Libranos strike again.
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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For God's sake!
Stephan Dion has a PHD in sociology. He taught Public administration and political science. Economics play a heavy role in either of those fields.

God's sake indeed.... In my profession, architecture plays an important role in much of what I do, and I know what I need to know in architecture to suit my job..... that doesn't make me qualified to be designing and building houses now does it?

He can have a PHD in ADHD for all I care.... he hasn't proven any of his competence since he became the leader of the Liberals and he sure as hell ain't getting a vote from me.
 
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Praxius

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Obviously Praxius, you are not qualified!
Dion taught political science.

So once again, he knows the science behind lying to the people... good to know.

Oh and I'm a citizen of this country where his dumb ass plans have a direct affect on my life, and I know damn well what the Liberals can and will do when given the opportunity.... I am beyond qualified to claim Dion is a tool and that I won't be voting for much of what his party plans, so long as he is the leader, because I frankly don't trust him.

And as mentioned before, he can have as many PHD's and taught all kinds of classes all he wants.... that still doesn't prove he can or is lying or can be two faced..... none of those things you mentioned prove he is an honest person.

Political science: politics is very intertwined with the economy. Politicians decide how to regulate the economy, how much and what to tax, create incentives to do positive things and disincentives to avoid negative things, which actions to take in a recession, what to subsidize, how to deal with the tradeoff between equity and efficiency, etc. Voters often vote based on the economy.

Whoopie do, I know all of this..... so if he's supposed to be so damn good at this stuff, why the hell can't he explain it properly so that it doesn't seem filled with piles apon piles of loopholes?

Sorry, but your claim I am not qualified means d*ck all to me.... I know what I know, I know what I was taught, I know when I've been d*cked over by the Liberals before, and I know when I'm about to be d*cked around by them again.

Instead of sticking your head so far up the economy's arse you can't think straight, how about you look back on some history.

Sorry, you're not qualified to tell me I'm not qualified....

Oh and you'll all see me vote for Layton before I ever vote for Harper or Dion..... the lesser of three evils, and at least he makes sense when he's talking and sounds like he's got some brains to him.
 
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#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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So once again, he knows the science behind lying to the people... good to know.

Oh and I'm a citizen of this country where his dumb ass plans have a direct affect on my life, and I know damn well what the Liberals can and will do when given the opportunity.... I am beyond qualified to claim Dion is a tool and that I won't be voting for much of what his party plans, so long as he is the leader, because I frankly don't trust him.

And as mentioned before, he can have as many PHD's and taught all kinds of classes all he wants.... that still doesn't prove he can or is lying or can be two faced..... none of those things you mentioned prove he is an honest person.



Whoopie do, I know all of this..... so if he's supposed to be so damn good at this stuff, why the hell can't he explain it properly so that it doesn't seem filled with piles apon piles of loopholes?

Sorry, but your claim I am not qualified means d*ck all to me.... I know what I know, I know what I was taught, I know when I've been d*cked over by the Liberals before, and I know when I'm about to be d*cked around by them again.

Instead of sticking your head so far up the economy's arse you can't think straight, how about you look back on some history.

I think your hatred for all Liberals is showing. You've somehow forgotten that we are still paying for Mulroney's fiscal incompetence. Whatever the Chretien liberals did, they balanced the damned budget....Something Harper's friend Mulroney, wasn't able to do in nine years.
 

Risus

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May 24, 2006
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The only hope Dion's carbon tax plan brings is to the members of the Conservative Party of Canada..........hope for a Conservative majority government.
And of course that is exactly what is going to happen...
 

#juan

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Jun 27, 2008 04:30 AM

Richard Gwyn
Ever since he announced his "green shift" carbon tax a week ago, Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion gives the impression of walking, for the first time in his two years in the job, with a spring in his step.
While Prime Minister Stephen Harper has pronounced Dion's plan as "crazy," Canadians themselves don't appear to believe this.
Rather, Canadians seem to be ready to at least consider seriously a plan that would impose heavier taxes on them for the sake of combating climate change but with (depending on income) part or all of this coming back to them in the form of compensating tax cuts.
There may be another reason why Dion's scheme is going over better than all the political commentators anticipated. This is that it's a pan-Canadian program.
To a substantial extent, Canadian politics is no longer about Canadian politics. It's now largely about the politics of the provinces or regions, or about the politics of identity or ethnic groups.
National programs have just about vanished from our agenda. Thus, our national health-care program now consists of 10 provincial health-care programs.
So far as climate change is concerned we were, until Dion's announcement, well on our way to having 10 climate change programs, each designed to suit the interests of each province.
While media commentators have been extraordinarily slow to recognize this, in many respects Canada is no longer a nation-state in the common meaning of the term but is instead an ever more decentralized alliance of 10 provincial states.
 

Praxius

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I think your hatred for all Liberals is showing.

Good, it's not like I was trying to hide it or anything.

You've somehow forgotten that we are still paying for Mulroney's fiscal incompetence.

Did I say I love the Conservatives? Did I not just say I wouldn't, nor have yet to vote for either the Liberals or Conservatives?

I haven't forgotten what either party has done to us in the past, which is why I would rather give another political party a go at screwing us over, then to let these guys do it again, only better.

Whatever the Chretien liberals did, they balanced the damned budget....Something Harper's friend Mulroney, wasn't able to do in nine years.

And when you speak of the budget and the Liberals, it doesn't suprise me, considdering what I just explained about how they raped in more money from the Atlantic proviences through the BST/HST scam... thereby getting more money coming into them then from other proviences (No wonder why we're so screwed up over here)

Yes.... let's vote Dion into power so the Liberals can d*ck us over and balance the budget again with another tax scam..... that sounds ever so lovely, it makes me want to fart out of my eyes so I can see the BullSh*t coming before it hits.
 

Socrates the Greek

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Apr 15, 2006
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Good, it's not like I was trying to hide it or anything.



Did I say I love the Conservatives? Did I not just say I wouldn't, nor have yet to vote for either the Liberals or Conservatives?

I haven't forgotten what either party has done to us in the past, which is why I would rather give another political party a go at screwing us over, then to let these guys do it again, only better.



And when you speak of the budget and the Liberals, it doesn't suprise me, considdering what I just explained about how they raped in more money from the Atlantic proviences through the BST/HST scam... thereby getting more money coming into them then from other proviences (No wonder why we're so screwed up over here)

Yes.... let's vote Dion into power so the Liberals can d*ck us over and balance the budget again with another tax scam..... that sounds ever so lovely, it makes me want to fart out of my eyes so I can see the BullSh*t coming before it hits.


Vote for your self then. I am sure you be happy that way.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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quoting Praxius
And when you speak of the budget and the Liberals, it doesn't suprise me, considdering what I just explained about how they raped in more money from the Atlantic proviences through the BST/HST scam... thereby getting more money coming into them then from other proviences (No wonder why we're so screwed up over here)

That is just nonsense. The Atlantic provinces have been on the dole for as long as I can remember. There have been little sweetheart deals with the Maritime provinces for years.

Look at the constituants per MLA in the maritimes. PEI, a province you could drive around in less than an hour has 27 MLAs. Compare the maritime provinces with the other provinces in Canada. You're doing it to yourselves.

http://mirror2.bc-ebc.ca/files/pdf/report/08_WebReport_ElectoralDistricts.pdf
 

wallyj

just special
May 7, 2006
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not in Kansas anymore
If it is revenue neutral I have no problem with.
Revenue neutral means that will spend as much as they take in,minus the skim. Unfortunately this plan does nothing for the enviroment except there won't be as many people driving to work,(jobs gone)or for pleasure. Dion seems to think that by taxing the polluters ,that they will invest billions into Canada and create more green jobs.That MAY not happen,in fact the larger companies will look elsewhere to expand. The monies collected are earmarked for income tax decreases with the lowest recieving the most,also for family tax credits. But nothing to improve technology,nothing. There is a very good reason that iggy and Rae are not selling this plan with Dion,they are distancing themselves so once Dion is exposed as the nutty professor,one of them will step up. The Libranos are back.
 

Lineman

No sparks please
Feb 27, 2006
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Let's tax people after they've polluted?
So if you can afford it you can go on polluting right!

Just what I need another $%&*# tax.

Dion is exactly what this country needs, a perfect reason to vote CONSERVATIVE!
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Revenue neutral means that will spend as much as they take in,minus the skim. Unfortunately this plan does nothing for the enviroment except there won't be as many people driving to work,(jobs gone)or for pleasure. Dion seems to think that by taxing the polluters ,that they will invest billions into Canada and create more green jobs.That MAY not happen,in fact the larger companies will look elsewhere to expand. The monies collected are earmarked for income tax decreases with the lowest recieving the most,also for family tax credits. But nothing to improve technology,nothing. There is a very good reason that iggy and Rae are not selling this plan with Dion,they are distancing themselves so once Dion is exposed as the nutty professor,one of them will step up. The Libranos are back.

That attitude is what made the problem in the first place. Dion has never said it would be revenue neautral. There will be incentives to be green and penalties for not being green. In the plan there are also allowances for the lower end.
Dion is going to present a similar idea to the G8 next week. Let's see what they think.
 

Walter

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Jan 28, 2007
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Dion has never said it would be revenue neautral.
CTV says he did.
Dion introduces 'green shift' carbon tax plan

Updated Thu. Jun. 19 2008 9:42 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
Liberal Leader Stephane Dion revealed his party's carbon tax plan Thursday morning, telling reporters that Canada needs to make a "green shift" to help save the environment.
At the heart of the energy plan is an energy tax on carbon fuels, which will be based on consumption.
New taxes are expected to generate about $15.4 billion annually in revenue in four years. But the Liberals say their plan will be revenue neutral because it will cut income taxes and increase family support payments.
Dion said his plan is "as powerful as it is simple."
"The Liberal Green Shift will cut taxes on those things we all want more of -- such as income, investment and innovation -- and shift those taxes to what we all want less of: pollution, greenhouse gas emissions and waste."
The proposed tax -- unveiled at a boisterous Liberal rally in Ottawa -- will hit electricity and home heating fuel but exempt gasoline at the pumps, which Dion said was already taxed.
The Liberals say their "Green Shift" plan will:
  • put the price of greenhouse gas emissions at $10 per tonne, rising to $40 per tonne in the fourth year
  • cut the lowest income tax bracket ($37,885 or less) by 1.5 per cent to 13.5 per cent
  • give a one per cent tax cut to the second and third lowest income brackets
  • cut taxes by $15.5 billion, including $11 billion in personal income tax cuts
  • create a new universal child tax benefit worth $350 per child annually in addition to existing child benefits
  • add a $600 increase to the Guaranteed Income Supplement for seniors, and increase benefits for low-income Canadian families
According to background documents, consumers will feel some impact, but the Liberals say extra fuel costs will be balanced off by income tax breaks and benefit increases. The average heating costs for homes that use oil are expected to rise by $203 per year. Homes using natural gas could see an average annual increase of $266.
The Liberals say a family of four with an annual income of $60,000 will save more than $1,300 from their tax cuts. The savings will be largely offset by higher energy costs, and the Liberals say the bulk of their plan will be paid for by large industrial emitters.
In a question and answer with reporters following the rally, Dion said he has not abandoned his support for a "cap and trade" system for carbon emissions in favor of a carbon tax. But he said such a system -- which would force companies to buy credits if they go above emissions quotas -- is likely years away.
"I changed my mind. My thinking evolved ... the best place to start right now is the "Green Shift," he said.
Tories: plan is a 'tax trick'
But Prime Minister Stephen Harper accused Dion of making a tax grab and of flip flopping on a commitment against a carbon tax.
"Mr. Dion has already broken his promise," Harper told reporters following a press conference in Huntsville, Ont.
Dion said "he would not have a carbon tax ... when he gets into office he'll put a carbon tax on gasoline and everything else. And it will not be revenue neutral," Harper said.
Dion said the tax would be revenue neutral, with the auditor general reporting annually to be certain.
The plan "will put every single penny back into the hands of Canadians," he said.