A challenge to our dear Christian friends.

[MHz]

No, not at all. The story of Adam and Eve is a fable, or a myth if you prefer that word. In any event, it's not literally true. It has nothing to do with the origins of the human species, and everything to do with a superstitious, ignorant culture groping for explanations without the tools to find them.

LOL, zip, zero, nadda about why or how the text is in error. It must be in error because that is what you believe.

Creationism, of the old earth or young earth variety, Scientific Creationism, Intelligent Design, whatever you want to call it, is intellectually bankrupt. It's been falsified repeatedly and thoroughly by multiple converging lines of evidence, which is all available for anyone to inspect. The only way I can see to save it is to add some nonsensical ad hoc hypothesis to the effect that god put the evidence in place to test us, which means he's pulled off a gigantic hoax.

Did your parents raise their eye-brows a bit when you explained that little thought to them?

And no, regrettably, you have not avoided the five errors in thinking I described. You have committed them all, repeatedly.

I guess I should have taken a whole 6 minutes to do that post rather than rushing it down to 5 it took.

Pick which one of the five you used to avoid the two simple questions I asked you, on second thought, you might not have that much spare time. LOL

 

[MHz]

Why be born again when you can just grow up.

Nice to see you have set a goal for yourself.

 

[talloola]

The story that Adam and Eve existed and how they came about is the silliest story I
have ever heard, and anyone with an ounce of common sense can figure that out.

 

[look3467]

Did you come up with that on your own? It isn't meant to be a put-down AJ, it just seems to be something far removed from what even God could hope for us read with some sort of understanding.
I just don't think we have to have 'deciphered' the whole Bible to get the jest of what those two chapters are meant to convey as to 'what really happened'.

I didn't come up with that on my own MHz, it was shown to me by someone else.
But let me say this, of all my studies in the word of God, I have never thought to think other than what I read literally.

Which kept me tied down and trapped for lack of understanding.

There are some key scriptures to lend to better understanding, that you will not find in Christian circles.

God uses numbers, symbols and stories to simulate the works of Jesus on His way to the cross.

Verse:
Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Two words: multiplied and similitudes.

Job is a similitude of Christ and in that book God uses the thousand's word.

Job 1:3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

There is significance in the particular numbers used. 7 and 3 and then 2- 5's.

In conjunction with all the rest of the bible, those numbers are relevant to the day of the crucification.

For you see, Jesus reconstructed the whole world, which means all 7 days of creation, in one single day.

Those 7 days are divided by 3 separate pictures of the same day.

I have explained them in a post awhile back.

When you are able to see clearly God's designed work in Jesus, you will then be able to see passed all those symbols, numbers and similitudes, and begin to understand the real truth in all of it.

Let me assure you that what I understand, does in no way endanger my soul, nor will yours.

Truly, God is a wonderful and loving God.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

You can say it a thousand times over A.J., but in the end, it is all the same, 'It is what
you, as an individual believe', not anything that you can prove to anyone else, unless
they have the same belief in the same things, then you can agree with each other till
the cows come home.

Yes, your right, like I said, one's own experiencing God in our hearts is the only proof.

Now, that can not be proven through the sciences, but only by individuals.

But, it doesn't stop us from talking about it, preadventure, some one out there might just get the experience, and they to, will join the ranks of believers.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[karrie]

The story that Adam and Eve existed and how they came about is the silliest story I
have ever heard, and anyone with an ounce of common sense can figure that out.

i truly don't understand creationists either.

 

[look3467]

Why be born again when you can just grow up.

If you are already born and growing up, can you again go back into your mothers womb and be born again?

Then it must mean something else............and experience maybe?

Peace>>>AJ

 

[talloola]

Yes, your right, like I said, one's own experiencing God in our hearts is the only proof.

Now, that can not be proven through the sciences, but only by individuals.

But, it doesn't stop us from talking about it, preadventure, some one out there might just get the experience, and they to, will join the ranks of believers.

Peace>>>AJ

I hope It never happens to me, cause I want to go through my life knowing that I am of
'sound mind', and not 'losing it'.

 

[look3467]

The story that Adam and Eve existed and how they came about is the silliest story I
have ever heard, and anyone with an ounce of common sense can figure that out.

Not a silly story silly, it is about mankind's state.

Adam and Eve is a metaphor, an allegory of how mankind came to be, how it became necessary to save mankind.

I probably started out as a caveman, grew in knowledge over the generations, and at a predetermined time in human History, God decided to reveal Himself.

When He did, He did not forget all those who lived and died prior to Jesus' time.

Mankind could not exist without someone giving it it's beginning.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

I hope It never happens to me, cause I want to go through my life knowing that I am of
'sound mind', and not 'losing it'.

As you will.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

i truly don't understand creationists either.

Not that difficult Karrie, just need a few explanations and you will see the picture.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Dexter Sinister]

LOL, zip, zero, nadda about why or how the text is in error. It must be in error because that is what you believe.

I think you're being deliberately dense. I've already described how the text is inconsistent, it's got nothing to do with what I believe or don't believe, it's about what the text plainly says.

Did your parents raise their eye-brows a bit when you explained that little thought to them?

No, it wasn't necessary to explain it to them. They weren't biblical literalists, they knew better.

Pick which one of the five you used to avoid the two simple questions I asked you, on second thought, you might not have that much spare time. LOL

I judged your simple questions to be not worth answering, because you repeatedly make the first two. You hypothesize that the Bible is to be taken literally and seek only confirming evidence, and deny or devalue any evidence to the contrary. It's not worth pursuing this conversation until you get past that.

 

[karrie]

Not that difficult Karrie, just need a few explanations and you will see the picture.

Peace>>>AJ

Sorry, AJ, let me clarify... I don't understand LITERAL creationists, those who believe that Adam was Adam and he lost a rib to create Eve, LITERALLY.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Not that difficult Karrie, just need a few explanations and you will see the picture.

You have those explanations AJ? If you're going to claim any version of creationism I've ever seen--and I think I've seen them all, unless you've got one unique to yourself--has any truth to it, you should know that it's contrary to an enormous amount of evidence from physics and chemistry and biology and geology and paleontology and archeology and anthropology and... well, pick any relevant -ology. You're going to have to come up with alternative explanations for all of it that work at least as well as the currently accepted scientific theories, or you've got nothing worth taking seriously. If the Bible is literally true, much of what we know of science must be false, so you'd have to explain how so many false ideas have been so spectacularly successful.

 

[mrgrumpy]

lookie lookie;

why don't you tell us something that is actually WORTHWHILE...like say the weather in northern California and how the grape harvest went?

 

[MHz]

Sorry, AJ, let me clarify... I don't understand LITERAL creationists, those who believe that Adam was Adam and he lost a rib to create Eve, LITERALLY.

Is your question about why it was done that way or could it be done that way?
The why may have to do with the bond between man and woman, bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh would seem to be a stronger bond than there would be from two piles of dust. That they were also considered to be married at that same time may have been a factor. Isn't most marriage ceremonies today still a joining of two people into one flesh? A man's devotion (and a woman's) is greater to their wife or husband than it is their parents.
It may also have something to do with what was said in the previous chapter. Man (both man and woman) were created in the likeness and image of God, but not just God, and the Holy Spirit.
Image and likeness do not have to be redundant terms, that would mean God is close to stuttering.
Whichever word you choose to mean what you still end up with two characteristics. A physical likeness and a bond between them.
Genesis 1 has several instances of "God said" and "it was so". God spoke and the Holy Spirit accomplished making those word into something that would be called real. That would make the Holy Spirit equal to God's help meet. There is a verse in the NT that says if a man blasphemies Christ those sins will be forgiven, it also says in the same verse than any man who blasphemies the Holy Spirit those sins will not be forgiven. Why the difference?

These days a stranger may say something unkind to a child of a man and no matter what the reaction is to that it will be less than if that same thing is said to a man's wife. I wouldn't suggest this being verified on even your best friend, let alone a stranger.

If the question is could it be done, making life out of dust would seem to be harder than making a seperate form from something that is already alive.

 

[mrgrumpy]

Image and likeness do not have to be redundant terms, that would mean God is close to stuttering.

Genesis 1 has several instances of "God said" and "it was so". God spoke and the Holy Spirit accomplished making those word into something that would be called real. That would make the Holy Spirit equal to God's help meet.

If the question is could it be done, making life out of dust would seem to be harder than making a seperate form from something that is already alive.[/quote]


Can we have a better example of the complete ridiculousness and inanity of posters such as this one? The words are utter nonsense and no intelligence can be ascribed to them.

Pathetic.

The best you could do is see if there is a high IQ Jesuit we could debate with - at least it would reduce the stupidity of YOUR posts.

 

[look3467]

lookie lookie;

why don't you tell us something that is actually WORTHWHILE...like say the weather in northern California and how the grape harvest went?

The weather report by AJ, partly cloudy and looking like its going to be sunshiny days from now on.

If u'all happen by this beautiful part of the country, drop in and chat.

Anyways, my friend, what I am telling you is that the bible is not all literally taken.

There are symbols, numbers, stories, which have to be placed into perspective in order to deduce from it all the right picture.

Why suppose I don't hold anyone to any certain belief? Because I see clearly what it is all about and can safely say, with full assurance, that all of us are going to see each other in the spirit world, prepared for us.

I have nothing against any religious belief, or non religious belief, because I know the final outcome of us all.

What that allows me to do is to love, respect my neighbors right to believe what they will, and not condemn them for it.

I can be your friend, true friend if you like, regardless whether you believe in God or not.

Yet, I believe in a solid foundation, unshakable and true, even in the midst of all the skepticism that God is not real, but is true to His word, and true to His assertion of love.


I can communicate with anybody, carry a conversation with anybody, and I will treat all the same as if they were my brother or sister.

If I can lead the way for others to think and be the same way, in about a 1000 years or so, there might be a mighty change, otherwise, is is at a snails pace, and leave it at that.

The moment of influence is NOW, if you are to do anything good, do it now, while you are still alive and able to do it, because if you wait, you will loose out on blessings from on high.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[MHz]

Can we have a better example of the complete ridiculousness and inanity of posters such as this one? The words are utter nonsense and no intelligence can be ascribed to them.

Pathetic.

The best you could do is see if there is a high IQ Jesuit we could debate with - at least it would reduce the stupidity of YOUR posts.

One good thing about reading your posts is that it doesn't make the ones who plotted to kill Jesus seem that they are not the ones that have the most hate towards him.

You never did say, specifically, why the RCC excommunicated you. Must have really been something though.

If you care to dispute that it went that way you could post copies of the many cards and letters they sent you that have terms like, "Please come back!"

 

[look3467]

You have those explanations AJ? If you're going to claim any version of creationism I've ever seen--and I think I've seen them all, unless you've got one unique to yourself--has any truth to it, you should know that it's contrary to an enormous amount of evidence from physics and chemistry and biology and geology and paleontology and archeology and anthropology and... well, pick any relevant -ology. You're going to have to come up with alternative explanations for all of it that work at least as well as the currently accepted scientific theories, or you've got nothing worth taking seriously. If the Bible is literally true, much of what we know of science must be false, so you'd have to explain how so many false ideas have been so spectacularly successful.

I can see the wonderful works of God in all of His creation. The design of things, the animal kingdom, the days, the months, the years, the seasons, the mysteries yet to be discovered, the molten lava in the middle of the earth, the stars, the planets.

Going into the micros-isms, the miniature world, the bacterias, then cells, the atom, electrons, the orderly arrangement of all of it is utterly amazing and organized.

I of all people can appreciate more all these thing because I know personally the creator of all of it.

I praise Him for all His creation of what awesome and marvelous are all His works.

Of myself, I am nothing, but in His eyes, I am everything. The same goes for you and everybody in this forum, regardless of belief.

We may not understand allot of things about God, which would limit our knowledge of Him, but I can surely say, that in the heart of the individual, God is real.

Peace>>>AJ