After this life and Dreams:

dancing-loon

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I'm very touched, Praxius, by your story and your self-help efforts to overcome the horror. At one point I thought your dream experiences could be due to some demonic forces who tried to gain power over your soul. I don't know much in that direction, except I have read in a few books that discarnate souls are always around us, and not all of them are friendly.
I wish we could sit somewhere away from the public and talk. Life stories pull my full attention and interest to listen and wanting to understand the load a fellow traveler carries. As you said earlier, most of us carry similar experiences around with us. Yes, that is so very true! Most of us don't show it on the outside. For children it has some especially devastating effects.
Your little soul must of suffered and struggled enormously.

I like to come back tonight when I'm undistracted and more connected.
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Well I have more to explain later down the road. When something comes up that relates to my personal life, I'll usually mention it or bring it up as an example. I no longer have much to hide anymore and I've spent too many years in my youth quiet and passive (Which may explain my mouth today)

I have spent most of my youth in that early era of the 70/80's mentality where people, esspecially males, did not express what was on our minds and we were to deal with these problems on our own. But the problem was that nobody talked about these problems, so how would we know how to deal with them on our own?

Since then and my realization of myself, I have lost most hessitation for expressing my personal experiences and life stories, because even if they make no sense or have nothing to relate to some.... so long as what is said hits one person who relates to those situations and may help them to learn what to do, or what not to do, that is all I seek.
 

dancing-loon

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Well I have more to explain later down the road. When something comes up that relates to my personal life, I'll usually mention it or bring it up as an example. I no longer have much to hide anymore and I've spent too many years in my youth quiet and passive (Which may explain my mouth today)

I have spent most of my youth in that early era of the 70/80's mentality where people, especially males, did not express what was on our minds and we were to deal with these problems on our own. But the problem was that nobody talked about these problems, so how would we know how to deal with them on our own?

Since then and my realization of myself, I have lost most hesitation for expressing my personal experiences and life stories, because even if they make no sense or have nothing to relate to some.... so long as what is said hits one person who relates to those situations and may help them to learn what to do, or what not to do, that is all I seek.
Hi, I'm back!:smile: Yes, I know, boys especially are supposed to be tough, no sissy stuff! It is slowly changing now. There a wonderful books available for parents on how to understand and respond to their children... none of that was ever heard of at my time or my parents' time! I don't come from a rich, educated family, but I had loving parents.
It is also especially hard in families with many children. Both my parents had up to seven and nine siblings! Poor as dirt and working their butts off, mothers worked part-time despite their load of kids!!!
I just read a story from the British singer Sting.
Do you know him? I don't. Anyway, he relates a dream he had while living on an estate in England with his wife Trudie.He dreamed of a bloated corpse drifting on a lake. It was a young woman. He woke up sweat-drenched. But he forgot over time.
One day, his wife Trudie expressed the wish to have a lake dug on their property. He wasn't keen on it, because of the disturbance and the endless formalities of permits etc. She got her will, though! Their property was next to an important archaeological area; they had to have an archaeologist present every day while digging, in case something should turn up.
Sting had an engagement in the States to look after and was away for some time while the lake was being dug out. One day his secretary gets a phone call from England and was told that a corpse had been found. He asked, is it a woman? "Yes, a woman, it was a ritual murder, and it happened about 400 years after Christ, at the time shortly before the Romans left." Now he remembered his dream!

How, dear Praxius, do we explain that dream? Where did it come from?

Back to your childhood and the burning of your house as well as others. YOU thought there could have been an ancient burial ground. I believe that is possible. The spirits must have had something to do with it perhaps.
You probably have heard too, that the Natives are always very concerned about their old burial sites, not to disturb them. They are much more in tune with and believe in all kinds of spirits.

Have you read about "The Spirit of Findhorn"? I was quite touched and impressed by it at the time... a powerful story.

You know, I was a timid and scared kid myself. My mother would lock me up inside the house, while she had to deliver the mail from house to house in two villages. She was probably gone for around two hours in the forenoon. My older siblings were in school, my Dad at work. That went on until I started school. My dear mother told me later as a grown-up that I would lie in bed, holding my Teddy and tell him under sobs, "don't cry, Teddy, Mummy is coming back soon!" She said, it just about broke her heart, but still... she had to leave. I was told to stay in bed! I did, I was an obedient little girl. I do not remember, if I ever had nightmarish dreams like you... I don't think so.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
From one of my books: "It is in our idleness, in our dreams, that the submerged truth sometimes comes to the top."
That is true for me! I can have the most insightful thoughts at odd times, that I wish afterwards I could have recorded them. I forget them as soon as I make an effort to consciously remember them. It is probably some form of daydreaming. It would happen while driving along to work.
Most of us have been taught that we are "only" human, "that we are nothing but the physical body. This is like telling the carpenter that he is nothing but the hammer he uses!

One of the first principles to grasp in the study of dreams is that just as the human mind has several unseen levels of function, Beta through Delta, the human body also has its hidden layers. We are infinitely more than the physical being that we perceive in the mirror, for immediately surrounding our bodies is what scientists refer to as the electromagnetic field.
This "field" is an extension of ourselves and our finer sensitivities which, while not often seen with normal vision, can be seen, heard, and felt by those with extra sensitivity. It is also seen, known, and painted as the human aura or the familiar halo found around the heads and bodies of various saints.
There is now a special kind of photography called Kirlian which can actually capture on film the auras found around us "ordinary" people!

Have you ever put your question, "Is there some sort of connection between dreams we experience every night and what may come in the end of this? Why?" into google?

I just did!!:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D

http://www.emaxhealth.com/64/823.html

Good Night, Praxius!
I hope you have no nightmare, but sleep like a baby!
 
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dancing-loon

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I'm crazy, I know!!! Just can't leave it alone! Want to find that Sting dream in English. Sofar I found his most famous song "Every Breath You Take"....

http://www.last.fm/music/The+Police/+videos/+1-WwqhhZnl8G4

and here is his bio.... http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001776/bio

excerpt:
Sting is married to film producer Trudie Styler, and has six children with Trudie and ex-wife, actress Frances Tomelty. Sting owns a Jacobian castle in Wiltshire, which he calls "Lake House", where he records his albums...

That's the place where they found the dead woman.
 

Vereya

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Apr 20, 2006
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I have learned to rely upon my dreams for the last two years. They are not "prophetic" in the sense usually ascribed to prophetic dreams. I never see things as they are going to happen, but very often I have dreams that show me the way a certain situation in my life will develop. When I wake up after such a dream, I know for certain what steps to take, and what to do. And it is always easy for me to tell this significant kind of dream from an ordinary dream. It's impossible to take one for the other. My point of view is that dreams are not heralds of afterlife. This kind of dreams that I have, and significant dreams described by other posters here are signs sent to us by the spirits and forces that guide us to help us deal with this-life issues.
 

Praxius

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......How, dear Praxius, do we explain that dream? Where did it come from?

Good question and it does connect with the original question in relation to death and dreams.

I would guess that the body has been at an unrest for a long time with many questions unanswered, not just by those who knew her, but for herself as well.

This is also a side-reason in why I do not have myself down as a Donor after I die. Every part of your body today is alive, every organ, the brain, heart, liver, kidneys, eyes, ears, toungue, all of it. It is all connected to our bodies through what I guess one would call the soul/spirit/conciousness. Every part of our body is our own by DNA alone.

Now to Tangent that a bit, some of the Christian schisms believe in a Purgatory, where you are in limbo between a heaven and a hell. There is various concepts in between on what this place actually is. Some call it like a hell, and others call it just a blank area of non-existence..... but with the combination of beliefs I have looked into, as well as a scientific approach added, with just a dash of personal logic.... do you know what I think this place is?

I do believe this "Purgatory" exists to some degree, but not exactly in the Christian sense:

Now back out of the Tanget and bring it together. I do not donate my organs or anything else from my body for a few reasons. One is that I have a strong belief in living naturally as possible without attempting to cheat death when the time comes. When my body fails me, that is my time to go (But I still won't go without a fight)

But if I accept a donor organ or blood, etc. it would be affecting that person in which I took that from, much as it would affect me if I did the same.

I believe that after I die, if a part of my body, organ, whatever, is placed back into another human and gives them life again..... that organ or body part of mine is now alive beyond myself. My DNA, that part of my body is living beyond when it should, which should have died along with me.

If I am partially alive in a sense like this, then I can not be completely dead, therefore I am not completely on the other side. I am in Limbo.... Purgatory..... until that person dies and my organ goes with him or her.

The very same I believe occurs from an un-explained disappearance of someone, or un-explained murder or someone. They went before their expected time. They have unanswered questions and things they wanted to say to people before they went.... they are trapped behind based on their own conciousness refusing to depart until all business is finished and the mind can rest at ease.

This woman burried centuries ago in some ritual could very well could have been this example. Her body was burried and she could not communicate like normal, so she delved into the minds of, Sting in this example, and quite possibly in his wife as well, which made her come to the decision to make the lake.

Now to tangent again but fill in some gaps.... Christains, like Roman Catholics whom believe in a Purgatory do not exactly know how long one stays there before they goto heave or hell.... it's like a trial to fix all the sins and wrong doings you have done in your life.

^ That maybe true and does relate to the above I explained, but I think there is another thing in play.

Like the organs living on beyond our bodies and life, Christians burry their dead in caskets 6' underground. They are dead, but the body now decomposes much much slower in the casket then it normally would naturally, like say in the woods where animals and insects would remove your body. Like the organs in donation, until your body decomposes properly and completely, you are stuck here.... in that Purgatory.

So you are in this Purgatory for as long as it takes for your body to follow you...... imo.

Back to your childhood and the burning of your house as well as others. YOU thought there could have been an ancient burial ground. I believe that is possible. The spirits must have had something to do with it perhaps.
You probably have heard too, that the Natives are always very concerned about their old burial sites, not to disturb them. They are much more in tune with and believe in all kinds of spirits.

Indeed.... I grew up in the Highland area of Nova Scotia as a wee lad. The paticular area in which I grew up was Mt. William, a short drive from Mt. Thom and connected through most of the towns there. Our house was one of the first few to move in that area we did. Now there are all kinds of houses there now, but when my house burned down it was back in 1989. It was an electrical surge in the stove's wall outlet.

Now further into detail about the other homes which burned the same way, almost exactly one year later, a house down the road caught on fire. They caught it decently and only the kitchen was damaged. The Source? Electrical surge in the stoves' power outlet. Different model and year stove at that.

One year after that my neighbor across the street refurbished his kitchen area a few months before.... bran new wireing, brand new stove, new walls, everything..... their house caught on fire, but he learned from past experiences and had a fire extinguisher nearby and put it out quickly. Only the ceiling was singed and he was lucky.

Guess what caused it? And electrical surge in the stove's power outlet..... go figure.

But besides that, prior to my house burning down, I would never enjoy going in the basement area because although I never seen a solid entity, I did see moving shadows down there and I could feel the air move like a breeze when this shadow moved. When I went down I had to race to the light for security. When I shut it off, I ran upstairs as fast as possible, because as soon as I hit the light, I could feel this pressence nearing me fast.

After the house burned down..... it was all gone. I could go in the basement as I pleased without fear for some reason. It was just gone. I am sure there are plenty of logical explinations, but none actually explain everything which occured.

This is why I kinda felt we were living on some burial grounds of some kind.... be that native or something else.

Have you read about "The Spirit of Findhorn"? I was quite touched and impressed by it at the time... a powerful story.

No I have not, but I will have to check it out I imagine.

You know, I was a timid and scared kid myself. My mother would lock me up inside the house, while she had to deliver the mail from house to house in two villages. She was probably gone for around two hours in the forenoon. My older siblings were in school, my Dad at work. That went on until I started school. My dear mother told me later as a grown-up that I would lie in bed, holding my Teddy and tell him under sobs, "don't cry, Teddy, Mummy is coming back soon!" She said, it just about broke her heart, but still... she had to leave. I was told to stay in bed! I did, I was an obedient little girl. I do not remember, if I ever had nightmarish dreams like you... I don't think so.

Many parents at that time seemed to have to make some tough decisions, and I imagine in my time I will have to as well. I just had to make the tough decision to put my cat down just last week actually. The first time I needed to make the decision of life and death for another living being. She was suffering with a cancerous tumor under her tougue and near the end of it, she could no longer eat or drink easily, so it was time.

I imagine later on in life when it begins to connect to making those decisions for other humans in my care, it certainly will not be easy either. I do have a story about my grandmother's death, but that will be for another time.

From one of my books: "It is in our idleness, in our dreams, that the submerged truth sometimes comes to the top."
That is true for me! I can have the most insightful thoughts at odd times, that I wish afterwards I could have recorded them. I forget them as soon as I make an effort to consciously remember them. It is probably some form of daydreaming. It would happen while driving along to work.

Makes sense, but also I have not had many dreams laitly that I can remember....

Most of us have been taught that we are "only" human, "that we are nothing but the physical body. This is like telling the carpenter that he is nothing but the hammer he uses!

We are only human.... indeed.... but what does "Human" actually mean? I don't think any of us are quite there to determine the actual truth, let alone our full potiential.

One of the first principles to grasp in the study of dreams is that just as the human mind has several unseen levels of function, Beta through Delta, the human body also has its hidden layers. We are infinitely more than the physical being that we perceive in the mirror, for immediately surrounding our bodies is what scientists refer to as the electromagnetic field.
This "field" is an extension of ourselves and our finer sensitivities which, while not often seen with normal vision, can be seen, heard, and felt by those with extra sensitivity. It is also seen, known, and painted as the human aura or the familiar halo found around the heads and bodies of various saints.
There is now a special kind of photography called Kirlian which can actually capture on film the auras found around us "ordinary" people!

I think it would be quite interesting to see this Kirlian photography sometime.... but that raises the question once again in my head:

This energy / electrical magnetic field / Aura and noted is continually surrounding us.... but being that energy is always constant.... where does this go when we die?

I hope you have no nightmare, but sleep like a baby!

Naw, the damn thermostat was broken for some reason and pumped the heat in my apartment last night to around 30 degrees.... I even shut the bugger all the way off and yet I checked it an hour later.... it was still shooting out all the heat it could.... bastard.

Oh well, you can't win them all I suppose.
 

dancing-loon

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Thank you, Praxius;
I just want to tell you one thing, I don't have time for a lengthy response right now, and that is that I, too don't want to donate my body parts nor receive any from someone else, not even my kids. No blood either! You have taken the time to fully explain your reasons, and I am in complete agreement!!
Just recently I read that the legal custom now is to take anybody's organs for transplant, UNLESS you have a legal certificate stating you DO NOT wish to donate your body parts. So, I will have to go to my lawyer and get that issue fixed! Perhaps I need to wear it around my neck!!

Till tonight;
Loon
 

dancing-loon

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Hi, Praxius;
I did a bit of cruising these last hours, to the point I fell asleep while reading!!:roll: There is a limit how much my mind can absorb AND understand at the same time!

I can't offer much wisdom from my own experiences, but I found a website that explains some of the things we habe been discussing. It is called...

LIFE AFTER DEATH IN THE WORLDS UNSEEN

http://www.thenewearth.org/LifeAfterDeath.html

Apparently, there is no such thing as a purgatory state. But I think, if something strongly binds us close to the earthly realm, we will remain there and not move on until the spirit is satisfied or enlightened enough to move on to another level.
This 1600 year old body from the lake, probably needed to let someone know about her fate. Believing in Reincarnation I think it most likely that she was at the time of her death very closely related to Sting and/or Trudie, if not one of them. Her spirit managed to penetrate in a dream Sting's mind to the point he was so shocked, he woke up.

So, could we conclude that our dreams are the language of the spirit world??
 

dancing-loon

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I have learned to rely upon my dreams for the last two years. They are not "prophetic" in the sense usually ascribed to prophetic dreams. I never see things as they are going to happen, but very often I have dreams that show me the way a certain situation in my life will develop. When I wake up after such a dream, I know for certain what steps to take, and what to do. And it is always easy for me to tell this significant kind of dream from an ordinary dream. It's impossible to take one for the other.
Hi, Vereya;
thanks for joining in the discussion. You surely are ahead of the game by actually knowing from your dreams what to do. You must have a good understanding of your dream symbolism to be able to interpret them and bring them into the context of your life-situation. I still am often at a loss as to what exactly the message is.
My point of view is that dreams are not heralds of afterlife.
I find that there are dreams which show a glimpse of life elsewhere, and that could very well be interpreted as the place where we will some day be going. I can't remember just now if I have had such a dream, but there are reports out there where people have dreamed of Jesus in heaven. Could be their intense wish perhaps.
This kind of dreams that I have, and significant dreams described by other posters here, are signs sent to us by the spirits and forces that guide us to help us deal with this-life issues.
Yes, who knows? I do believe in Guardian Angels, guiding spirits. They have been present a few times to save me from harm and possibly death. Are they the ones who fill our dream basket as well?
I have had a few outstanding prophetic dreams in my life, mostly something tragic did happen in the family. I have to conclude that an event has already happened in the spirit world, my soul picks it up and brings it via a dream back over into the physical world. The event (accident) happens shortly thereafter!
Not sure if I got that right!!:-?
 

hariharan

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Jan 28, 2008
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Before “After Life and Dreams” I would like to present my thoughts about Life. Our life is based on TIME. This world revolves, Day and Night changes everything related with time. I think that when we die our body and soul are separated and that soul becomes independent of time. If at all I want to relate my dreams, I will go for relating it with my Life not After Life. Praxius this is just my thoughts.
 

Praxius

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.....Apparently, there is no such thing as a purgatory state. But I think, if something strongly binds us close to the earthly realm, we will remain there and not move on until the spirit is satisfied or enlightened enough to move on to another level.

This 1600 year old body from the lake, probably needed to let someone know about her fate. Believing in Reincarnation I think it most likely that she was at the time of her death very closely related to Sting and/or Trudie, if not one of them. Her spirit managed to penetrate in a dream Sting's mind to the point he was so shocked, he woke up.

So, could we conclude that our dreams are the language of the spirit world??

Well I'm kinda nit picky about what I classify something personally, lol... language seems a bit vauge.

But what you explained above which I quoted is all I ment about Purgatory. I don't mean Purgatory in the Christian sense, where it has a level of control by a God or Devil. I mean it as a basic identification for this state in which you are stuck in limbo, such as this 1600 year old body you speak of.
 

Praxius

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Before “After Life and Dreams” I would like to present my thoughts about Life. Our life is based on TIME. This world revolves, Day and Night changes everything related with time. I think that when we die our body and soul are separated and that soul becomes independent of time. If at all I want to relate my dreams, I will go for relating it with my Life not After Life. Praxius this is just my thoughts.

Fair enough, but you also touched on another part which I haven't gotten to yet in this discussion, which is actually the afterlife, time and the purpose of it all. I've explained it in the past all together in one big blurb of a post and probably was a bit too much for some to read, which is why I decided to bring up this thread to get a better explaination going on, as well as continually evolve it as additional and different information is provided by others.

I feel there is a very strong connection to time and our existence, much more important then the oxygen in which we breath to live.

If the Universe is the playing field, then time is the score keeper and we are the players. Through time, we learn and adapt, we evolve, we look back and we see the things in which we have done through time, and we attribute it to memory and experience. But what is the point of memory and experience if we die in the end?

Some people may think it's a fool's journey to hope that there is a purpose for this life and that there is an afterlife.... that we are here to live, breed and die, nothing more. That can be one way to look at it.

Then again..... one could also look at it in the following way:

- Many many eons and a day or two ago the Universe was created as we understand it. Before it existed we assume nothing existed before it.... or was there? Some theories people share and bounce around is the idea/concept of a Big Bang which created everything in which we know and will know. The Universe is expanding from one central point. Another theory is that over a given period of time, our Universe will counter it's own gravitational mass (or whatever you want to call it) and begin to collapse on itself and thereby causing the Big Squish. In that Theory, when the Big Squish occurs, the force of that action will in turn cause another Big Bang, starting it all over again.

All of which occurs through a set timeline in our existence.

So that raises a few more questions doesn't it? If the Universe is just going to destroy itself eventually, then what is the purpose of our existence in the first place if all our technological and evolutional advances will end up being destroyed in the end and no trace of it ever existing happens? No matter how many wars we survive, no matter how many planets we colonize in the Universe, it'll all come back to Zero.

I'll add onto that later on with some more things I've been thinking..... but when reading the above, keep the throughts above about dreams and energy in mind when wondering about wth I'm trying to get at. And also don't forget the concept of Energy being Constant. If the Universe reaches point Zero again, then where does that energy go and for how long before it repeats itself?
 

dancing-loon

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Well I'm kinda nit picky about what I classify something personally, lol... language seems a bit vague.

But what you explained above which I quoted is all I meant about Purgatory. I don't mean Purgatory in the Christian sense, where it has a level of control by a God or Devil. I mean it as a basic identification for this state in which you are stuck in limbo, such as this 1600 year old body you speak of.
Hi, Praxius;
I have to admit I didn't know anything about the churches' term of purgatory. So, I went on the web and pulled an explanation down:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm

This young woman, found at Sting's property, was offered to "God" as a sacrifice to please and bribe HIM to forgive the sins of the assembled congregation!

It is a mystery how she ended up in Sting's dream, and his wife's insistence to dig a lake right there where she could be discovered. I read that only a fragment of us could remain stuck in limbo somewhere!!

http://www.soul-healer.com/s-topics/...%20in%20limbo?

Honestly, I have no explanation!
 

Praxius

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Well whatever makes sense to you is the only explination needed. I'm not so interested in reading other world renound scientists or philosipher's reports and studies they have worked on over the decades..... I'm more interested in a bare to the bone explination from average people like yourself and I based on this very exact days' level of understanding. Tomorrow it might change 180 degrees. It might stay the same for many years...... but what you believe within yourself and your own way of thinking.

Basically in another way of explaining it, if you were to just create your very own religion for people to follow and you believe it to be true.... what would it be?

It doesn't need to be an educated explination from some prof in University and it doesn't have to even be remotely correct. The reason being, is because that prof in University, all those books and research you find on the internet by some nameless or faceless person who claims to be an expert, they're all levels of influence based on previous influences.

I guess my own understanding and explinations are the same way, but hearing what someone thinks personally and with their own words, I feel helps raise questions that may not have normally been asked or even noticed when just following older studies. What could have made sense 10 years ago may be different today.

Kinda like a book club where after the book is read, everybody shares their opinions on the story, if they liked it, if there were holes in the explinations, what made sense to them, etc.

As for a quick explination of the common concept of the Christian Purgatory:

In Roman Catholic Christianity, purgatory is the condition, process, or place of purification or temporary punishment in which the souls of those who die in a state of grace are made ready for heaven.

Some religions have similar beliefs, if not about soul purification, which some of them explicitly deny, at least about the possibility of an improvement in the soul's spiritual situation following death. The Eastern Orthodox Church believes in the possibility of a change of situation for the souls of the dead through the prayers of the living and the offering of the Divine Liturgy, and many Orthodox, especially among ascetics, hope and pray for a general apocatastasis A similar belief in at least the possibility of a final salvation for all is held by Mormonism and other groups both within and outside Christianity.

Judaism shares with the Roman Catholic Church the idea of after-death purification and may even use the word "purgatory" to present its understanding of the meaning of Gehenna.

The word "purgatory" is also used, in a non-specific sense, to mean any place or condition of suffering or torment, especially one that is temporary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory

So the word can be used by other religions or alternative beliefs to help explain a middle-part of life and death..... that ghost stage, so to speak.

In addition:

....In addition to accepting the states of heaven and hell, Roman Catholicism envisages a third state before being admitted to heaven. According to Roman Catholic doctrine, some souls are not sufficiently free from sin and its consequences to enter the state of heaven immediately, nor are they so sinful as to be destined for hell either. Such souls, ultimately destined to be united with God in heaven, must first endure purgatory - a state of purification. In purgatory, souls "achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven."

So in other words, it sounds more like a trial part of one's past life and the deeds done through time. The soul can not fully rest until all loose ties are fixed, if one wanted to look at it without the Christian perspective.

At least as I see it anyways. Once again, can't be proven one way or another.
 
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Praxius

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Well that's a given, but that doesn't work for everybody in todays' world. I mean that's pretty well one of the main principles I hold up to (Unless in self defense) but that doesn't give an explination as to why people shouldn't hurt one another.

But also my question was geared to how you would explain this middle part where people are stuck for a period of time (Like the donor thing we talked about)
 

dancing-loon

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Well that's a given, but that doesn't work for everybody in todays' world. I mean that's pretty well one of the main principles I hold up to (Unless in self defense) but that doesn't give an explanation as to why people shouldn't hurt one another.
I feel we are all in the same boat. By hurting another person we only delay our arrival time, because we have to come back until we have learned our lessons.
But also my question was geared to how you would explain this middle part where people are stuck for a period of time (Like the donor thing we talked about)
Well, I have read we have four bodies.
[SIZE=+1]These four bodies are defined in different teachings in various ways.[/SIZE]
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dancing-loon

House Member
Oct 8, 2007
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Have to start a new page.
So, we know the physical plane, it's the one we are experiencing right now.
We die, and the body is gone, but we still have our feelings. This is called the Astral body and we live in the Astral realm. That is probably where a lot of souls stay by choice, I can imagine. Here we can still observe what is going on on earth, in the physical. We might wait for our lifelong mate, for instance, until he has died also. Or we find it o.k. to stay for whatever reason. In case of having donated a physical part to another person might be one reason.... I really don't know that. That is a brand new thing mankind has created without first checking!!

Let's turn it around.... my donated body part dies before I do. (kidney) What now? Does the consciousness of it come back to me? Will I feel it? Or does IT hover in the in-between waiting for me?

I have read as well as talked about it briefly with a friend who is convinced that parts of us are on other planets in the galaxy, learning and experiencing. In the end, whenever that will be, all parts of me will come back together as one.

Another question is, what will happen to my soul, if I give my heart away - the heart being the seat of the soul? Does the receiver person now have my soul? In that case I think I'm really screwed.... finding myself without a soul on the other side!!! And the receiver-person has my soul! He actually departed with his soul and spirit. I, the donor am also dead, but was made to incarnate into the receiver body. Did my spirit come along, too?
Has the medical profession done any research on the new person as to how he now acts and thinks and feels with someone else's heart?
Do you know anything about such scenarios?

What was in those far away ages where they had living man-animals? Like the half-horse, the sphinx, the mermaid and others?

Anyway, it is good to ponder these things for interest's sake.
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
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BC
Is there some sort of connection between dreams we experience every night and what may come in the end of this? Why?

Great question!

Jung talks about a collective consciousness where archetypes exist. I think this idea is what inspired Dawkins and his notion of memes. Jung found that archetypes make an appearance in the symbology of the mind even if the person in question has no reason for such a symbol. For example someone could dream about David but not believe in the bible or be visited by a jinn though they are not a Muslim. Jung proposes that these archetypes exist within the collective consciousness of people, that is, they are part of our symbology. I don't think he meant anything so metaphysical as the idea suggests but that through evolution and culture these archetypes occupy a place in our brains. This is different from the idea of memes which are passed on from teacher to student with small incremental improvements which over time give us a better product than the initial creator was capable of creating. It is similar though, in that a community of people can hold a meme and that would enter the collective consciousness.

In terms of communicating with the spiritual world, it is probably acceptable to say communicating with the collective consciousness is communicating with the larger community of human experience which is hidden within our minds. This seems hardly so mysterious and is why interpretation of mental symbols can be so successful.

Communication beyond the human consciousness is more mysterious but non the less plausible should anything like that exist. The problem is that evidence for proof of such communication is terrible hard to gather. The dreamer could be interpreting something they have already seen, they could just have a wild imagination or they could be a rogue bent on deception. The only plausible way of proving such a thing would be if the dreamer or visionary could produce information they could in no other way know. This seems an impossible task when you examine all the reasons that could be used to discredit the evidence. There is no real option but to accept their word for it, or not.

I think to know for sure you need to have a personal experience with such things. It seems there would be little point in talking about them and there is always the very real possibility that they are nothing at all except delusions. In the Shaman tradition only a few people can communicate outside of the human consciousness and even many shaman can not. It is very rare for someone to have what they would term a real vision. There are rules to distinguish a real vision from a fraud (no culpability intended) and, in fact, there are a whole host of archetypes that someone who has visions might encounter. They have names and appearances that a shaman would recognize. Interestingly these archetypes might have different names from region to region around the globe but their meaning and appearance are often the same. This seems to be a world wide and systematically similar phenomenon which one would expect if it were true.

All this being said: no one should believe anyone with such tails unless they can provide proof, which is nearly (is) impossible. So I think this kind of spirituality is entirely stuck in the world of personal experience. If you can prove it to yourself that is pretty much as good as it gets.

If someone has very profound experiences then they should seek out a shaman from a traditional culture (not modern) and ask them about them; which culture doesn't matter. A real vision is nothing like archetypes or symbols and the person having the vision will no doubt realize that. More than likely it will scare the hell out of them.
 
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