Militarisation of Canada

[darkbeaver]

Several problems with this post. The most obvious being that the only time a nuclear device has been used in war was against Japan. The result was the end of the war. And Japan is not a nuclear wasteland. The US did occupy Japan. Japan is an excellent beautiful country today.

The war was for all intents and purposes over when the bombs were dropped. Several million American personell have served in post war Japan and Okinawa. Japan holds almost a trillian in US dollars, that's trouble. The result of the bombs use was to frighten the **** out of the rest of the world especially the commonists. It was a successful test of people cookers.

 

[hermite]

YES. Those bombs were dropped after the war was over.

There had been four cities chosen as possible targets: Hiroshima, Kokura, Nagasaki, and Niigata (Kyoto was the first choice until it was removed from the list by Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson). The cities were chosen because they had been relatively untouched during the war. The Target Committee wanted the first bomb to be "sufficiently spectacular for the importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it was released."3

Source: http://history1900s.about.com/od/worldwarii/a/hiroshima.htm

 

[jimshort19]

Militarization for the Nation

I believe in peace and love and non-violence.
After our wars in Africa, all lost, especially Rwanda, we might be tempted to meet machete with machete, but Darfur proves how much can be done with video cameras.
If our armed forces should be allowed enhanced capability, the next thing we know we'll have the blood of the Mujadeen on our hands as well as the Taliban. Why can't we all just be friends?

 

[darkbeaver]

I believe in peace and love and non-violence.
After our wars in Africa, all lost, especially Rwanda, we might be tempted to meet machete with machete, but Darfur proves how much can be done with video cameras.
If our armed forces should be allowed enhanced capability, the next thing we know we'll have the blood of the Mujadeen on our hands as well as the Taliban. Why can't we all just be friends?

I'v asked myself that question a lot. But I'm to stupid to know. So I asked some others and they seem to think being friendly dosn't make money. I think our armed forces will be used against us someday soon, so I'd like to see them disarmed untill they figure out who's writing thier checks.:smile:

 

[iARTthere4iam]

I believe in peace and love and non-violence.
After our wars in Africa, all lost, especially Rwanda, we might be tempted to meet machete with machete, but Darfur proves how much can be done with video cameras.
If our armed forces should be allowed enhanced capability, the next thing we know we'll have the blood of the Mujadeen on our hands as well as the Taliban. Why can't we all just be friends?

A difficult question to be sure. The most basic reason why we all don't get along is probably that we have different objectives that are often mutually exclusive. If you get what you want and my rights are violated I may have to push back and reasset my rights. If I have a disagreement with my neighbour hopefully we can work it out. Among nations the situations are far more complex and difficult to work out. Sometimes a bully just wants your lunch money and he needs a punch in the nose to see that he cannot have it without a fight ( see Gulf War I and Saddam's grab for Kuwait).

 

[iARTthere4iam]

I'v asked myself that question a lot. But I'm to stupid to know. So I asked some others and they seem to think being friendly dosn't make money. I think our armed forces will be used against us someday soon, so I'd like to see them disarmed untill they figure out who's writing thier checks.:smile:

You are talking about our armed forces? Then we are writing the checks.

If you are talking about an alternate military structure such as restricting the military to prevent foreign adventurism and imperialism, then you should say what it is any military in Canada would do and how it would be structured (perhaps a small standing army and reservists trained to fight and defend Canada in the worst case situation). If you are talking about being defenseless then you are just being silly. Would we get rid of police and fire departments?

 

[iARTthere4iam]

YES. Those bombs were dropped after the war was over.

There had been four cities chosen as possible targets: Hiroshima, Kokura, Nagasaki, and Niigata (Kyoto was the first choice until it was removed from the list by Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson). The cities were chosen because they had been relatively untouched during the war. The Target Committee wanted the first bomb to be "sufficiently spectacular for the importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it was released."3

Source: http://history1900s.about.com/od/worldwarii/a/hiroshima.htm

The war with Japan was not over. Unconditional surrender came after the bomb. Would the war have ended eventually? Yes. But it wasn't over yet.

 

[iARTthere4iam]

I'v asked myself that question a lot. But I'm to stupid to know. So I asked some others and they seem to think being friendly dosn't make money. I think our armed forces will be used against us someday soon, so I'd like to see them disarmed untill they figure out who's writing thier checks.:smile:

Actually "friendly" makes bucket-loads of money. War is expensive and not productive. Our relationship with the US makes loads of money as does our relationship with countries all over the world. How would going to war make money? You keep stating that we go to war for profit. Please explain.

 

[dancing-loon]

No need to worry about Canada retaliating with nuclear warheads - we don't have any! Which is ironic, seeing as how we are the world's leading supplier of uranium. We supply our uranium through the IAEA which ensures that none of our uranium is used for warheads. We are one of the few countries that respects the non proliferation agreement.

As for the whole military-industrial complex... don't we buy all our weapons second hand? When was the last time Canadians were innovating in the arms field? The sea-king perhaps?

We are also BORROWING tanks from Germany, so we can fight for Mr. Bush in Afghanistan!!!:x
Can anyone tell me WHY we are fighting and killing Talibans in Afghanistan?

 

[L Gilbert]

I believe in peace and love and non-violence.
After our wars in Africa, all lost, especially Rwanda, we might be tempted to meet machete with machete, but Darfur proves how much can be done with video cameras.
If our armed forces should be allowed enhanced capability, the next thing we know we'll have the blood of the Mujadeen on our hands as well as the Taliban. Why can't we all just be friends?

I believe killing is wasteful and stupid, too. We can't all be friends for several reasons, basically a few of the "7 deadly sins"; greed, lust, vanity, anger, and envy. They are the motives behind just about everything most people do.

 

[Zzarchov]

Another one is not everyone has the same moral and cultural norms as you do (including what is and is not sins).

While your morals may find war and killing wrong, not everyone does. There have been many warrior cultures (and still are) in the world today who see war and death as a natural part of humanity and actually encourage it.

So concepts of "lets all get along" doesn't work with people who see that in the same light you would see warfare.

 

[jimshort19]

Friends

I am pleased to feel understood here.

The reason why Osama Bin Laden is not my friend is all my fault I'm afraid. I'd like to sit down and chat with the suicide bombers. I'm sure that they are nice people when you get to know them. I recall how I loved the USSR when they had our cities targeted for destruction, and how I hated the imperialist Americans, though they would not kill me. Patty Hearst opened my eyes to how to get along, how to survive. Now Canada is becoming imperialistic - again. Did we learn nothing from Hitler?

It is sometimes better to surrender or change sides, especially when you are a spineless coward and a fool, tutored by teachers with Stockholm syndrome, afraid to fight, loving only your own worthless skin, and prepared to consign humanity to the flames.

 

[MikeyDB]

Hi Jimshort!

We could look at the current world situation several ways…

Osama Bin Laden is a fundamentalist who encourages the “faithful” to jihad, becauase it’s easier to convince anyone that their best interests are served by killing the ‘infidel’ when the infidel offers legitimacy to armed conflict.

Maybe you haven’t heard about the young woman who was gang raped and sentenced to lashes and a prison sentence… Or the British nanny who was detained for allowing children in her school room to name a stuffed toy “Mohammad”…

I’ve heard that the Bin Laden family is very rich, and that the Al Saud family are even wealthier than the Bin Ladens’….

“Saudi Arabia's proven reserves of petroleum exceed 250 billion barrels. Annual production in the early 1990s was some 3 billion barrels of oil, more than any other country; output rose sharply after Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. Saudi Arabia is the world's leading oil exporter, with petroleum revenues accounting for about 90 percent of all exports.”
“The Government's human rights record remained poor. Citizens have neither the right nor the legal means to change their government. Security forces continued to abuse detainees and prisoners, arbitrarily arrest and detain persons, and hold them in incommunicado detention. In addition there were allegations that security forces committed torture. On October 1, the Council of Ministers approved a new law regarding punitive measures that would forbid harming detainees and to allow those accused of crimes to hire a lawyer or legal agent. The law became effective in November; however, at year's end, there were no reports of its implementation. Prolonged detention without charge is a problem. Security forces committed such abuses, in contradiction to the law, but with the acquiescence of the Government. The Mutawwa'in continued to intimidate, abuse, and detain citizens and foreigners. Most trials are closed, and defendants usually appear before judges without legal counsel. The Government infringes on citizens' privacy rights. The Government prohibits or restricts freedom of speech, the press, assembly, association, religion, and movement. However, during the year, the Government continued to tolerate a wider range of debate and criticism in the press concerning domestic issues. Other continuing problems included discrimination and violence against women, discrimination against ethnic and religious minorities, and strict limitations on worker rights.”
“Oil revenues account for approximately 55 percent of the GDP and 80 percent of government income.”

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2001/nea/8296.htm

North American appetite for petroleum products has funded the Saudi government and many others. The economic system of North America can be accurately characterized as petroleum dependent since, the wisdom of wealthy industrialists like the Rockerfellers and the Fords shaped the economies of the United States and Canada.

Millions of people throughout the Middle East have suffered at the hands of monarchies and dictatorships that have been funded by the consumers of North America. It didn’t matter that oppressive regimes exercised totalitarian measures on the citizens of these nations, they are after all, half a world away and how they treat their own citizens is their own business….

That a religion encouraging death be regarded as the “just-reward” for non-believers is the ancient underpinning tribal genesis of families that rose to power in the Middle East through satisfying the appetites of North Americans.

Let me put this into perspective for you….

Pick a thug, any thug….

Pay him billions upon billions of dollars to satisfy your appetite for “X”, while he’s orchestrating the subjugation of his people under a totalitarian yoke as described earlier…

Ignore the foreseeable consequences of building this thugs wealth beyond imagination while he’s driven by the message that “the infidel must die”…

Doesn’t matter…. The Standard Oil companies, the Exxon middle-men, the conditioning to regard “four wheel freedom” as entitlement of every man woman and child in North America is after all, just “business” and if those cubic meteres of currency end up funding torture and radical fundamentalism somewhere in the world….well, that’s just the way the cookie crumbles….

But wait! Take the lands of the Palestinians and divide that land while moving in an occupation force and system of government that relegates Palestinians to second-class citizenship….

Yes I know, no big deal…

If the suicide bombers and the armed conflicts in and around Israel hadn’t happened, what would all the newspapers of the world have had to print for the past 60 years!?

If the animosity and hatred that is at the very heart of the Semite tribes didn’t provide an easy avenue to the North American military-industrial complex for increasing the profits of defense and arms industries in America and Canada, then wouldn’t they simply have purchased what they wanted from the Russians or the Chinese…anyway…?

September 11/2001…..

If the Saudis involved in this little bit of entertaining foreign diplomacy had been Evangelical or Baptist or Catholic, we know these people could never have committed this atrocity….right?

No you’re right Jimshort…..it’s not our fault….it’s never our fault so I wonder why so many people are upset about Somalia or East Timor, Rwanda or any of a dozen conflicts that have emerged through political practices and economic “interests” of Canada and America?….

Silly rabbit, we’re not responsible for what happens anywhere in the world….

 

[darkbeaver]

We are also BORROWING tanks from Germany, so we can fight for Mr. Bush in Afghanistan!!!:x
Can anyone tell me WHY we are fighting and killing Talibans in Afghanistan?

It's good for the economy and makes money and keeps Canadians working in the arms industry and if we defeat them over there we won't have to repulse them off our beaches when they have completed thier invasion fleets.:lol: profitpowermoneygodprofitmoneypower
Something like that but not exactly.

 

[darkbeaver]

Actually "friendly" makes bucket-loads of money. War is expensive and not productive. Our relationship with the US makes loads of money as does our relationship with countries all over the world. How would going to war make money? You keep stating that we go to war for profit. Please explain.

If I have to explain to you why war makes money, it means you have not read any history. The most efficient means to profit is theft. Military adventure is the most efficient means to effect theft.
You could start with the Vikings, if you're really interested. And forget about thinking from the common mans perspective which count for nothing in this world most of the time.:canada:

 

[dancing-loon]

It's good for the economy and makes money and keeps Canadians working in the arms industry and if we defeat them over there we won't have to repulse them off our beaches when they have completed thier invasion fleets.:lol: profitpowermoneygodprofitmoneypower
Something like that but not exactly.

No, dark beaver, I don't think it is good for the economy and it doesn't make money either... it costs tons of money!!! Read here:

...what is the cost of the war in Afghanistan to Canadians? The deaths of 71 soldiers and a diplomat are fairly well known? The financial costs are less well known. According to one study published by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, the "full cost" of the Afghan war to Canada will be $7.2 billion by March 2008. This works out to more than $100 million every month. What could Canada do with $7.2 billion dollars? How could this money benefit our health care system, to help alleviate poverty, provide tax relief or be used in the fight against global warming?
http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2007/11/05/01931.html

Just think how many windmills and solar systems we could build with that much money!!
WE COULD PAY OUR NATIONAL DEBT DOWN and save tons of interest money!!!
Why does this not appeal to our politicians?

 

[darkbeaver]

No, dark beaver, I don't think it is good for the economy and it doesn't make money either... it costs tons of money!!! Read here:


Just think how many windmills and solar systems we could build with that much money!!
WE COULD PAY OUR NATIONAL DEBT DOWN and save tons of interest money!!!
Why does this not appeal to our politicians?

If it costs lots of money it's good for thier economy (the bankers) of course what you say and suggest is correct IMO. They aren't our politicians, they belong to the bankers.:-|

I was being sarcastic in previous posts sorry to have mislead you, it won't happen again sorry

 

[jimshort19]

Mickey DB

Mikey, "No you’re right Jimshort…..it’s not our fault….it’s never our fault so I wonder why so many people are upset about Somalia or East Timor, Rwanda or any of a dozen conflicts that have emerged through political practices and economic “interests” of Canada and America?…."

Howdy Mickey! Actually I said that it wasn't MY fault. And like maybe anyway, it's never my fault, but you still wonder why the neighbours are upset about a dozen conflicts like Rwanda that were caused by Canada. Whoa!

Yes, I caused Rwanda. but I was just havin' some fun. Izzat so wrong?

You'd likely agree that the U.S tied its own hands when it developed a dependancy on the assets of primitives. Now that we have the mess, while we should not repeat error, we must focus on the future. Just because we fed and bred these monsters doesn't mean that we don't have to kill them. But the long term solution is to disengage, not invade. In the meantime we have the grand experiments of Iraq and Afghanistan, colonialism without the colony. It reminds me of how many psycologists it takes to change a light bulb - only one- but the light bulb has to want to change. It's looking like this is not realistic. Everybody is trying out 'invasion light', when what they may need is unconditional surrender or to execise distancing and containment, and nothing in between.

As an accomplished arm chair general, I'd say the lessons learned this early in the 21st century will bear fruit, but they are bitter lessons so far. When are things going to get sweet? When the UN is reformed and the free world speaks as one good bully.

 

[dancing-loon]

Please, dark beaver, don't apologize! It is me who has a long wire and doesn't catch on right away.
Generally, yes, a war generates and stimulates the economy, because so much has to be fixed again afterwards. Plus, as you mentioned earlier, the THEFT that goes on in a war is worthwhile. So, do you think Canada gets some of that opium from Afghanistan???;-)

 

[darkbeaver]

Invasion light? Regional and municipal indiginous warfare is key to developement of our arms industry. Why rely on forigne conflicts when we have so many unemployed here at home? We're not paying attention to developements and the latest thinking in the oil bussiness. The eastern provinces should annex any hydro-carbon bearing provinces directly under the trust of Ahtowwaaa.
If we fight over our oil instead of thier oil we could avoid the transportation and logistical expence of an unpopular forigne war.
Those munitions and troops could be far more cost effectively spent in this country.