DND to argue legal obligations regarding detainees

[Cobalt_Kid]

Nope, but then again, it is a war zone...Nothing like having the luxury of time and a court system to determine things like that at your disposal...Unfortunetly, that is not a luxury that exists in combat...That gets people killed.

So does participating in the torture of people in a culture which places a premium on revenge and has a long and successful history of insurgency. By helping Kabul violate the human rights of detainees we're making targets of our own troops.

We can't even claim to be on the side of international rights on this one, a pretty good indication of how poorly thought out the operation has become.

 

[CDNBear]

We can't even claim to be on the side of international rights on this one, a pretty good indication of how poorly thought out the operation has become.

You can thank the LPoC for that!

 

[BitWhys]

You can thank the LPoC for that!

gee

that doesn't sound partisan at all. :roll:

 

[CDNBear]

gee

that doesn't sound partisan at all. :roll:

Trust me, if the roles were reversed, I'ld be here poking the morons in the CPoC.

But seeing as all you leftoid fringe types conveniently forget who mandated this farce, I have to keep pointing it out.

 

[BitWhys]

Trust me, if the roles were reversed, I'ld be here poking the morons in the CPoC.

But seeing as all you leftoid fringe types conveniently forget who mandated this farce, I have to keep pointing it out.

Harper's been in charge for nearly two years now. Harper wanted this mission. Is he in control or not?

Opposing torture makes me "leftoid fringe"?

 

[CDNBear]

Harper's been in charge for nearly two years now. Harper wanted this mission. Is he in control or not?

I didn't think you were apted enough to get it...

Opposing torture makes me "leftoid fringe"?

Nope, your silly ignorance does.

Pick up a history book, read a lil about the military history of this nation. WWII(LWF), Korea(LWF) and so.

read about Regiments such as the Black Watch. The Van Doos and so on. You just might develope the skill to debate this topic on an even keel with me.

Sometimes the ends justify the means, as ugly and awful as that must taste.

 

[BitWhys]

...
Pick up a history book, read a lil about the military history of this nation....

I would but you've obviously already wiped your arse with them. I'll just assume none of it advocates torture but thanks for the advice.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

You can thank the LPoC for that!

No I can't but you'll balme them to avoid putting responsibility where it rightfully belongs now, directly in Harpers hands. The Liberals haven't been in power since early 2006 and most of Canadas casualties have come under Harpers mandate, same with Afghani prisoner transfers.

Harper has shifted the mission from a humanitarian effort into a poorly conceived operation to destroy the Taliban, something even it's own former Minister of Defence admitted was impossible earlier this year.

I think if the Liberals were still in power the mission would have been much different in Kandahar and we may have palyed our traditional role of moderating US policy instead of jumping on the hopeless "War on Terror" bandwagon. Bush attacked a nation that wasn't even connected to 9-11 and bin Laden is still running around in Pakistan planning our demise.

After all the BS we've seen from from Harper and Co., right-wing attacks on the Liberals are becoming ridiculous.

 

[CDNBear]

I would but you've obviously already wiped your arse with them. I'll just assume none of it advocates torture but thanks for the advice.

Just some advice...When casting that trolling rod, use less wrist, they're heavy...

Why did I think you would even understand what I was saying...Trolls seldomly use fact, logic, truth or intellect when posting, good to see you'll never change.

The historical fact and the books I was referring to, you could easily find at your local library(That the big building filled with books, not the one that nakid girlies on the covers, but the ones with big words in them), hilite the use of torture to advance the cause. Not that you'ld understand that. There is also a couple that hilite the use of interrogation on the Japanese that seemed impervious to negative reinforcement type torture, it is still used by the FBI today(See Ton, I told ya you'ld be the only bright spark in here).

But seeing as you prefer to use history books as toilet paper(I use Presidents Choice myself), no wonder you are woefully incapable of putting up a reasoned arguement.

 

[CDNBear]

No I can't but you'll balme them to avoid putting responsibility where it rightfully belongs now, directly in Harpers hands. The Liberals haven't been in power since early 2006 and most of Canadas casualties have come under Harpers mandate, same with Afghani prisoner transfers.

This getting tiring, when you've caught up with us, let me know...

Harper has shifted the mission from a humanitarian effort into a poorly conceived operation to destroy the Taliban, something even it's own former Minister of Defence admitted was impossible earlier this year.

No the mission was shifted under the LPoC, but thanx for trying...

I think if the Liberals were still in power the mission would have been much different in Kandahar and we may have palyed our traditional role of moderating US policy instead of jumping on the hopeless "War on Terror" bandwagon. Bush attacked a nation that wasn't even connected to 9-11 and bin Laden is still running around in Pakistan planning our demise.

Of course the war in Afghanistan would be different now, had the LPoC won the last election. We would have pulled out, the LPoC bends like the limbs of a willow, not that the CPoC is any better, but at least they stick to the path they paved, unlike the fringe elements.

After all the BS we've seen from from Harper and Co., right-wing attacks on the Liberals are becoming ridiculous.

No more ridiculous then the arguements and/or the lack thereof around here.

 

[BitWhys]

... hilite the use of torture to advance the cause. Not that you'ld understand that. There is also a couple that hilite the use of interrogation on the Japanese that seemed impervious to negative reinforcement type torture, it is still used by the FBI today...

so now you ARE defending the use of torture.

 

[Tonington]

To me it's really a slippery slope the interrogation. It's a never ending line in the sand once you allow the rights to slide, how far will we go in search of information, and of course there is no guarantee that they aren't simply giving in and telling their interrogators what they want to hear.

That's why there needs to be some universal guidelines, which is what many treaties are aimed at. A strong argument can be made that Bush and his administration don't give a rat's ass unless it makes America stronger. On one hand appealing to International bodies and then saying basically who gives a flying rats @ss. To me, Canada needs to stay away from mixed signals such as those I just highlighted.

 

[CDNBear]

so now you ARE defending the use of torture.

Is english your second language??? Reread, that and try to be objective. Don't filter it with your political pigeon holed ideology. For the love of gawd, use your mind, it's a terrible thing to waste as you do...

To me it's really a slippery slope the interrogation. It's a never ending line in the sand once you allow the rights to slide, how far will we go in search of information, and of course there is no guarantee that they aren't simply giving in and telling their interrogators what they want to hear.

Absolutely.

That's why there needs to be some universal guidelines, which is what many treaties are aimed at. A strong argument can be made that Bush and his administration don't give a rat's ass unless it makes America stronger. On one hand appealing to International bodies and then saying basically who gives a flying rats @ss. To me, Canada needs to stay away from mixed signals such as those I just highlighted.

Unfortunetly, time is of the essense in many cases and long drawn out processes are not always feasable. In the case of handing over detainees to a group that may in fact torture them, I'ld need to be on the ground to make any real statement. To sit here in the comfort of my home and pass judgement on people doing the ugliest of jobs, just seems to be ridiculous to me.

It's not as black and white as some would like to see it.

Those people scare me, from experience their inablity to function and see that not everything in life is pleasant or stomachable, get people killed.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

This getting tiring, when you've caught up with us, let me know...

OK, I've caught up.

No the mission was shifted under the LPoC, but thanx for trying...

Read my post, I realize Canada was planning to move to Kandahar before the dark days of the Harperites, what I'm saying is he has shifted the mission over to emphasis the military over aid in an effort to please Bush. The Liberals had no such desire and would in all likelyhood have stayed with a much more limited and humantinarian focused mission.

Of course the war in Afghanistan would be different now, had the LPoC won the last election. We would have pulled out, the LPoC bends like the limbs of a willow, not that the CPoC is any better, but at least they stick to the path they paved, unlike the fringe elements.

That's humorous, as far as I'm concerned there wouldn't be a Canada if not for the Liberals fighting for it in the 1990s. I get the distinct impression that what pisses many "conservatives" off is they seem to prefer Canada as just another state in the US union.

No more ridiculous then the arguements and/or the lack thereof around here.

After all the hot air about how little respect the Liberals had for the voters, all I've seen is more of the same or even worse from Harper and his flunkies. We've got a thread here about a conservative MP who's trying to take over an NDP riding because he says he can do a better job there. Like I said, it's ridiculous to still claim the Liberals were any worse than the current morons in power.

 

[BitWhys]

Is english your second language?

Is civility yours?

 

[CDNBear]

OK, I've caught up.

Good...

Read my post, I realize Canada was planning to move to Kandahar before the dark days of the Harperites, what I'm saying is he has shifted the mission over to emphasis the military over aid in an effort to please Bush. The Liberals had no such desire and would in all likelyhood have stayed with a much more limited and humantinarian focused mission.

I'ld like to see what you read that makes you say that "Harper shifted the mission over to emphisise military over aid"...I have yet to see the CPoC do anything new in Afghanistan and considering I follow it rather religiously, due to many friends being there now, your proof would sure surprise the hell out of me. Well there is that ramp up of aid he handed down, but that flies in the face of your assertion, hmmmm....

That's humorous, as far as I'm concerned there wouldn't be a Canada if not for the Liberals fighting for it in the 1990s. I get the distinct impression that what pisses many "conservatives" off is they seem to prefer Canada as just another state in the US union.

That doesn't surprise me...Seeing as the LPoC and the rest of Canada went from red to black, thanx to NAFTA, oh ya, that was Conservative policy wasn't it...

I'm not a Conservative, but I ID as one, because it makes it easier for the fringe to pigeon hole me, I'm more of a patriotic, military supporting, fiscally balancing Liberal that hates all politicians...Don't worry, I won't expect you to grasp that or use it in the future...No one else has.

After all the hot air about how little respect the Liberals had for the voters, all I've seen is more of the same or even worse from Harper and his flunkies. We've got a thread here about a conservative MP who's trying to take over an NDP riding because he says he can do a better job there. Like I said, it's ridiculous to still claim the Liberals were any worse than the current morons in power.

OH MY GAWD!!! YOU DITINT!!!

Please, a member of the CPoC would ahve to get caught freebasing a kitten jacking off to kiddie porn in order to catch up the criminality in the LPoC.

 

[CDNBear]

Is civility yours?

You're still using your wrist troller, careful now...

I see you haven't been to the library yet, come back when your arguement grows up...

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

I'ld like to see what you read that makes you say that "Harper shifted the mission over to emphisise military over aid"...I have yet to see the CPoC do anything new in Afghanistan and considering I follow it rather religiously, due to many friends being there now, your proof would sure surprise the hell out of me. Well there is that ramp up of aid he handed down, but that flies in the face of your assertion, hmmmm....

Under Harper the aid aspect has become the rumpend of the mission, he makes no effort to hide his admiration of Bush and his policies and he's taking us down the same road. As someone who's lost family in Vietnam and now worries daily about losing more in Iraq I don't tend to buy the official BS that so often is intended to keep conflicts going for political or economic benefits instead of finding ways to end them. Harper has connected his government with the Canadian military in an effort to increase his political power with little thought to the effects on the troops, that makes me angry.

That doesn't surprise me...Seeing as the LPoC and the rest of Canada went from red to black, thanx to NAFTA, oh ya, that was Conservative policy wasn't it...

I disagree with you here, some have done better under NAFTA but on the whole it's been negative. It's helped see higher paid manufacturing work sent overseas and Canada has seen the same widening of the gap between the rich and poor as in the US. It was tight(some might say too tight) Liberal policy that has put the country in the black.

I'm not a Conservative, but I ID as one, because it makes it easier for the fringe to pigeon hole me, I'm more of a patriotic, military supporting, fiscally balancing Liberal that hates all politicians...Don't worry, I won't expect you to grasp that or use it in the future...No one else has.
OH MY GAWD!!! YOU DITINT!!!

That's ok, I'm not really a Liberal, I'm just tired of Canada not working anymore and am even more pissed at Harper than I was at Chretien. I tend to forgive Jean because of his efforts to hold Canada together and while I love America because of my deep roots there I don't want my home country to become part of it the way Harper seems to want to do.

Please, a member of the CPoC would ahve to get caught freebasing a kitten jacking off to kiddie porn in order to catch up the criminality in the LPoC.

This just in, "PM Harper caught freebasing a kitten while jacking off to kiddie porn" more to follow at eleven.:lol:

 

[CDNBear]

Under Harper the aid aspect has become the rumpend of the mission, he makes no effort to hide his admiration of Bush and his policies and he's taking us down the same road. As someone who's lost family in Vietnam and now worries daily about losing more in Iraq I don't tend to buy the official BS that so often is intended to keep conflicts going for political or economic benefits instead of finding ways to end them. Harper has connected his government with the Canadian military in an effort to increase his political power with little thought to the effects on the troops, that makes me angry.

Speaking as an ex Army NCO, with several friends now on the ground in country, I can say with all certainty, we Soldier types believe in the fundamentals of the mission, I have heard of and seen the aid in the wake of the fighting. As for cuddling with Bush...well DUH! The US is our largest trading partner, we share one huge assed boder, if for nothing else...how about discretian being the better part of valour. A few more years of the anti US crowd and their could have been a forced "regime change" in the Great White North!

But he hasn't done one thing that the LPoC didn't leave them with, cept to increase aid support.

I disagree with you here, some have done better under NAFTA but on the whole it's been negative. It's helped see higher paid manufacturing work sent overseas and Canada has seen the same widening of the gap between the rich and poor as in the US. It was tight(some might say too tight) Liberal policy that has put the country in the black.

Tech jobs increased here like ten fold, coming of course with a greater earning potential. Sure we lost min wage jobs to the cheaper overseas market...so what? In return we increased the average income and began to decrease unemployment. Isn't that the point?

OH ya,,, and some rich people got richer...I'm richer(is that even a word?lol), but then again, I like to work and I took the path of greater reward.

That's ok, I'm not really a Liberal, I'm just tired of Canada not working anymore and am even more pissed at Harper than I was at Chretien. I tend to forgive Jean because of his efforts to hold Canada together and while I love America because of my deep roots there I don't want my home country to become part of it the way Harper seems to want to do.

I think you're making some weird assumptions here, I haven't seen Harpo do anything of the sort. I've seen him mend fences with our neighbours, I've seen him live up to our international obligation, ie: NATO and the UN, but try and make Canada an American state...nah...just making Canada work really...Just look at the strength of the dollar and our economy...Our Gov't is stable and our leaders are doing just that...leading.

This just in, "PM Harper caught freebasing a kitten while jacking off to kiddie porn" more to follow at eleven.:lol:

DAMMIT!!! Now I'll have to defend the NDP...oh brother my skin just crawled...ewww...just saying that made me feel ill...

 

[Zzarchov]

Your big arguement is that a Conservative is saying he can do a better job than an NDP in a riding and wants to take it over...

You know thats the whole point of having multiple candidates in a riding right?