Yes, thats why US soldiers who do that get arrested and often get the death penalty if not hundreds of years or life in jail.
Iraq War Surge Reducing Overall Violence Despite Bombs
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Yes, thats why US soldiers who do that get arrested and often get the death penalty if not hundreds of years or life in jail.
``Let us wish Iraq has another chance``
Amen to that. But we must begin by first impeaching Bush, removing him from office, and imposing the severest sanctions upon him for his crimes upon Iraq. As our Founding Fathers taught over two hundred years ago, justice must first exist so that order can prevail. Once done, the world community will unite to correct the harm caused by that imperialistic terrorist and the America haters who support him.
```The left liberals and the right conservatives have both been wrong
for many reasons```
You will not that I quote from www.antiwar.com which is a conservative source. Therefore, bear in mind that TRUE conservatives oppose Bush terrorism and imperialism.
Amen to that. But we must begin by first impeaching Bush, removing him from office, and imposing the severest sanctions upon him for his crimes upon Iraq. As our Founding Fathers taught over two hundred years ago, justice must first exist so that order can prevail. Once done, the world community will unite to correct the harm caused by that imperialistic terrorist and the America haters who support him.
```The left liberals and the right conservatives have both been wrong
for many reasons```
You will not that I quote from www.antiwar.com which is a conservative source. Therefore, bear in mind that TRUE conservatives oppose Bush terrorism and imperialism.
Does anyone get the feeling when reading these posts that most people
care more about Americans failing and proving the hubris of their mistakes
than they care for Iraq succeeding as a nation ?
It's almost as if the idea of Iraq succeeding will somehow derail the more
important effort of proving Amerika wrong ?
care more about Americans failing and proving the hubris of their mistakes
than they care for Iraq succeeding as a nation ?
It's almost as if the idea of Iraq succeeding will somehow derail the more
important effort of proving Amerika wrong ?
Bush's war is working so well that there has been a massive increase in the amount of suicides among US troops both male and female:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-08-15-army-suicides_N.htm
Army suicides at highest level in 26 years
WASHINGTON (AP) — Army soldiers committed suicide last year at the highest rate in 26 years, and more than a quarter did so while serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a new military report.
The report, obtained by The Associated Press ahead of its scheduled release Thursday, found there were 99 confirmed suicides among active duty soldiers during 2006, up from 88 the previous year and the highest since the 102 suicides in 1991 at the time of the Persian Gulf War.
The suicide rate for the Army has fluctuated over the past 26 years, from last year's high of 17.3 per 100,000 to a low of 9.1 per 100,000 in 2001.
Last year, "Iraq was the most common deployment location for both (suicides) and attempts," the report said.
The 99 suicides included 28 soldiers deployed to the two wars and 71 who weren't. About twice as many women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan committed suicide as did women not sent to war, the report said.
...................................................................................................................................
While Bush and his conspirators in the Republican party reduce veterans benefits, suffering vets and soldiers languish in combat slavery. The high rate of suicide should be no surprise. Note that there isn't a word of compassion from the America hating right wing and it's a good bet we won't see any here from their supporters.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-08-15-army-suicides_N.htm
Army suicides at highest level in 26 years
WASHINGTON (AP) — Army soldiers committed suicide last year at the highest rate in 26 years, and more than a quarter did so while serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a new military report.
The report, obtained by The Associated Press ahead of its scheduled release Thursday, found there were 99 confirmed suicides among active duty soldiers during 2006, up from 88 the previous year and the highest since the 102 suicides in 1991 at the time of the Persian Gulf War.
The suicide rate for the Army has fluctuated over the past 26 years, from last year's high of 17.3 per 100,000 to a low of 9.1 per 100,000 in 2001.
Last year, "Iraq was the most common deployment location for both (suicides) and attempts," the report said.
The 99 suicides included 28 soldiers deployed to the two wars and 71 who weren't. About twice as many women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan committed suicide as did women not sent to war, the report said.
...................................................................................................................................
While Bush and his conspirators in the Republican party reduce veterans benefits, suffering vets and soldiers languish in combat slavery. The high rate of suicide should be no surprise. Note that there isn't a word of compassion from the America hating right wing and it's a good bet we won't see any here from their supporters.
Thats uh..thats still not a very high suicide rate.
Lets go with 1997 Canadian Males (the army in the US is still mostly male) as this is the newest Data I can find.
Its 19.6/100,000 to the USA's last year high of 17.3/100,000.
So what does it say that a US soldier in Iraq being shot at, it less likely to think his life is so horrible he has to end it, than a Canadian male in the nation with the highest standard of living in the world? (at the time the Data was collected)
Lets go with 1997 Canadian Males (the army in the US is still mostly male) as this is the newest Data I can find.
Its 19.6/100,000 to the USA's last year high of 17.3/100,000.
So what does it say that a US soldier in Iraq being shot at, it less likely to think his life is so horrible he has to end it, than a Canadian male in the nation with the highest standard of living in the world? (at the time the Data was collected)
`` still not a high rate ``
Life is sacred and I don't want to see any suicides. It is silly to say that those deaths are acceptable just because they average fewer than other deaths. Those deaths are higher than they were before Bush's war and that makes it bad enough.
Remember the myth of ''compassionate conservatives''.
Life is sacred and I don't want to see any suicides. It is silly to say that those deaths are acceptable just because they average fewer than other deaths. Those deaths are higher than they were before Bush's war and that makes it bad enough.
Remember the myth of ''compassionate conservatives''.
Bush plans to expand his war of terrorism and imperialism:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/floyd/floyd81.html
quote:
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]An American strike on Iran is coming closer. It probably won't take place in the next few weeks, because Bush is on vacation and will not want to be disturbed. And it probably won't take the form that many have expected (including this writer). But Bush himself has raised the ante in recent days, warning of vague punishments for alleged Iranian misdeeds – and unleashing an outright lie that Iran has openly "proclaimed its desire for nuclear weapons," when of course the very opposite is true. And now McClatchy Newspapers brings fresh confirmation that the decider behind the Decider – Dick Cheney – is calling for airstrikes against Iran. Indeed, it seems Cheney has already chosen the casus belli for such an attack – a provocation that we will doubtless see occurring any day now
And, of course, Lew Rockwell is a conservative.
[/FONT]
http://www.lewrockwell.com/floyd/floyd81.html
quote:
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]An American strike on Iran is coming closer. It probably won't take place in the next few weeks, because Bush is on vacation and will not want to be disturbed. And it probably won't take the form that many have expected (including this writer). But Bush himself has raised the ante in recent days, warning of vague punishments for alleged Iranian misdeeds – and unleashing an outright lie that Iran has openly "proclaimed its desire for nuclear weapons," when of course the very opposite is true. And now McClatchy Newspapers brings fresh confirmation that the decider behind the Decider – Dick Cheney – is calling for airstrikes against Iran. Indeed, it seems Cheney has already chosen the casus belli for such an attack – a provocation that we will doubtless see occurring any day now
And, of course, Lew Rockwell is a conservative.
[/FONT]
Its important people judge a tree by the fruit that it bears.
The harvest reaped from the American political system has been death and destruction on a massive scale and massive debt while many rich and powerful people became richer and more powerful. After the next election, its unlikely the new leader will steer America onto a new course.
I was against the Iraq invasion from the start because the proponents of war failed to convince me that Iraq was an iminent threat. After examining the facts available at the time, I came to the conclusion that a decision had been made to invade Iraq for reasons related more to greed than a desire for peace and security. A majority of people bought the BS we were sold about Iraq. Fear and anger over the events of 9-11 were manipulated to heard the sheeple in the direction self serving policies which ultimately have made the world a far more dangerous place.
I judge people by that watershed event.
Some people were able to see through the BS and were not manipulated.
Others were manipulated, but are aware now, in other words they are wiser as a result.
Others continue to believe that the every step in this process has been to gain greater peace and security... in other words they still can't tell $hit from Shinola.
If one good thing has come out of this, its that far more people are cynical about what our news/media tells us and the motivations of our leaders.
No I don't take any pleasure in America's failure in Iraq. But I do take satisfaction in knowing I was right from the beginning about the Iraq invasion and where it would lead. I predicted that the Iraq invasion would lead to a breakdown of law and order, sectarian strife, civil war, an eventual American withdrawl and a more powerful Iran would fill the power vacuum left by Hussein.
By the way, this war has only started. Eventually it will involve most nations of the world, and ultimately lead to direct conflict between the US/Israel and their allies against Iran, Syria and their allies. Despite the posturing and BS about seeking diplomatic solutions with Iran, the war has progressed beyond that. Both sides already know they are in a hot war with each other. Iran is taking the fight to Iraq and other countries rather than waiting for inevitable attack by the US/Israel. Watch for civil war in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt. One or more of these countries will fall shifting the balance of power in the region toward Iran. Eventually Israel will face an onslaught of fighters armed with modern man portable munitions which are capable of defeating Israel's military. At which point the conflict will go nuclear.
That's the path I've been predicting since the start of the Iraq invasion.
In the overall scheme of things, this surge was meaningless. It didn't alter the course of war. It just sank the US deeper in this quagmire.
The only way to avoid catastrophe is for us to start choosing leaders who are willing to tell us the ugly truths, admit our failures, and then begin to deal with them. Holding the gang of criminals responsible for the Iraq war crime would go a long way toward finding a peaceful solution with our current adversaries. We don't have to like our current adversaries to make peace with them. But we do need to come to terms with all the atrocities the west has perpetrated on the people of the middle east over the years. There are good reasons why our adversaries hate us. Its time we started giving them better reasons to seek peace.
The harvest reaped from the American political system has been death and destruction on a massive scale and massive debt while many rich and powerful people became richer and more powerful. After the next election, its unlikely the new leader will steer America onto a new course.
I was against the Iraq invasion from the start because the proponents of war failed to convince me that Iraq was an iminent threat. After examining the facts available at the time, I came to the conclusion that a decision had been made to invade Iraq for reasons related more to greed than a desire for peace and security. A majority of people bought the BS we were sold about Iraq. Fear and anger over the events of 9-11 were manipulated to heard the sheeple in the direction self serving policies which ultimately have made the world a far more dangerous place.
I judge people by that watershed event.
Some people were able to see through the BS and were not manipulated.
Others were manipulated, but are aware now, in other words they are wiser as a result.
Others continue to believe that the every step in this process has been to gain greater peace and security... in other words they still can't tell $hit from Shinola.
If one good thing has come out of this, its that far more people are cynical about what our news/media tells us and the motivations of our leaders.
No I don't take any pleasure in America's failure in Iraq. But I do take satisfaction in knowing I was right from the beginning about the Iraq invasion and where it would lead. I predicted that the Iraq invasion would lead to a breakdown of law and order, sectarian strife, civil war, an eventual American withdrawl and a more powerful Iran would fill the power vacuum left by Hussein.
By the way, this war has only started. Eventually it will involve most nations of the world, and ultimately lead to direct conflict between the US/Israel and their allies against Iran, Syria and their allies. Despite the posturing and BS about seeking diplomatic solutions with Iran, the war has progressed beyond that. Both sides already know they are in a hot war with each other. Iran is taking the fight to Iraq and other countries rather than waiting for inevitable attack by the US/Israel. Watch for civil war in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt. One or more of these countries will fall shifting the balance of power in the region toward Iran. Eventually Israel will face an onslaught of fighters armed with modern man portable munitions which are capable of defeating Israel's military. At which point the conflict will go nuclear.
That's the path I've been predicting since the start of the Iraq invasion.
In the overall scheme of things, this surge was meaningless. It didn't alter the course of war. It just sank the US deeper in this quagmire.
The only way to avoid catastrophe is for us to start choosing leaders who are willing to tell us the ugly truths, admit our failures, and then begin to deal with them. Holding the gang of criminals responsible for the Iraq war crime would go a long way toward finding a peaceful solution with our current adversaries. We don't have to like our current adversaries to make peace with them. But we do need to come to terms with all the atrocities the west has perpetrated on the people of the middle east over the years. There are good reasons why our adversaries hate us. Its time we started giving them better reasons to seek peace.
It's been a recent observation that if someone speaks the truth or portrays a more skeptical opinion that they are defeatest . I really really hope that the situation in Iraq improves . The I-told-you-so argument goes a long way in making sure that it doesn't happen again but solves nothing . The surge is not working it's only lead to the targeting of softer targets instead of more mainstream sites , in order to achieve safety in Baghdad hundreds have died in outlying districts . The choices that have to be made in Iraq are grave and the consequnce of not making them is the continued pain and suffering of the Iraqi people .
1) The united states must leave all coalition troops must leave because they are polarizing the situation further as countless studies have shown .
2) The countries surrounding Iraq must become partners in the process of stabalising Iraq because it is in their own best interests .
3) The United nations security council must become involved and a UN Task force with a mandate to secure peace has to take over in Iraq it will take a long time but it is my belief that such a mission cannot be undertaken before all parties in an actually representative Iraqi government agree.
4) The United states must be responsible for the cost of rebuilding Iraqi Infrastructure without conditions .
5) The United states must adhere to international law and have all personale accused of war crimes and atrocities appear before the Hague for trial .This must be accompanied with a UN investigation in Iraq of accused American atrocities .
6) Al Queda in Iraq has to be hunted down and all it's members imprisoned to be tried by a fair Iraqi Judiciary system .
7) All Contracts and pledges made by the current government on Iraqi oil must be nullified and renegotiated by this new representative Iraqi government without the presence of any American troops on Iraqi soil .
I Know this is a lengthy process and will most probably not happen but peace must be based on justice and equality of all political parties in Iraq regardless of their attitude to the United states.
1) The united states must leave all coalition troops must leave because they are polarizing the situation further as countless studies have shown .
2) The countries surrounding Iraq must become partners in the process of stabalising Iraq because it is in their own best interests .
3) The United nations security council must become involved and a UN Task force with a mandate to secure peace has to take over in Iraq it will take a long time but it is my belief that such a mission cannot be undertaken before all parties in an actually representative Iraqi government agree.
4) The United states must be responsible for the cost of rebuilding Iraqi Infrastructure without conditions .
5) The United states must adhere to international law and have all personale accused of war crimes and atrocities appear before the Hague for trial .This must be accompanied with a UN investigation in Iraq of accused American atrocities .
6) Al Queda in Iraq has to be hunted down and all it's members imprisoned to be tried by a fair Iraqi Judiciary system .
7) All Contracts and pledges made by the current government on Iraqi oil must be nullified and renegotiated by this new representative Iraqi government without the presence of any American troops on Iraqi soil .
I Know this is a lengthy process and will most probably not happen but peace must be based on justice and equality of all political parties in Iraq regardless of their attitude to the United states.
All this surge is doing is moving the violence to other less visible areas in Iraq, much the same way a police crackdown in high crime areas of a city moves it to other areas for a time. Once it's over the violence will be back.
The conflict in Iraq is driven by the unstable political, economic and religious environment there, how is a short-term military operation going to solve the underlying causes of that conflict. Few Iraqis trust the coalition because of it's behaviour in the past, the same applies to the US created Iraqi government.
The two men who started the whole mess are still calling the shots, as long as they're working at cross-purposes to vital US interests this war won't end.
The conflict in Iraq is driven by the unstable political, economic and religious environment there, how is a short-term military operation going to solve the underlying causes of that conflict. Few Iraqis trust the coalition because of it's behaviour in the past, the same applies to the US created Iraqi government.
The two men who started the whole mess are still calling the shots, as long as they're working at cross-purposes to vital US interests this war won't end.
If I was her son.... if 4 soldiers terrorized my home and my mom.... even if I didn't have a single terrorist bone in my body... no inkling to do any harm to anyone.... they just made me into one.
You guys are aware that since this conflict started far more civilians have been killed by coalition forces than by insurgents? Today the rate coalition forces are killing civilians is somewhat less than the insurgents. The initial invasion killed 30,000 Iraqi soldiers most of whom were poorly armed conscripts and about 150,000 civilians. Just because these deaths didn't make our news doesn't mean they didn't happen or that Iraqis are as unaware of them as we are in the west.
Every justtication our leaders gave us for starting and continuing this war has been and continues to be false. Our leaders knew Iraq was not a WMD threat before the war. Even Powell and Rice knew this:
http://www.omnithoughts.com/saddammemoryhole.htm
http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/ArticleID/2334
We also knew from the beginning that none of the 9-11 hijackers came from Iraq. The only connection between 911 and Iraq was that our leaders frequently mentioned the Iraq and 911 in the same sentence. Most of us drew a false connection where none existed:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0314/p02s01-woiq.html
We were also told about gross human rights violations and crimes against humanity in Iraq but out of context, without a time reference or without our leaders admitting the role the west and the US specifically played in supporting those atrocities.
Add it up, and it was obvious even back in March 2003 that we were being manipulated. But most people never saw it and swallowed the whole BS story hook, line and sinker.
So why would any rational person believe the news and our leaders are telling us the truth now, but were lying back then?
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/v/bushfoolme.htm
Of course we are being manipulated. Key words which should be a big clue that we are being lied to are:
terrorist, freedom, democracy, evil, islamofacist, ... there are many other words which are used to manipulate us.
This is not an "I told you so" rant, but an attempt to make people think about what they are being told and then asking themselves if this makes sense.
For example, which country is more democratic? Saudi Arabia or Iran? Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, complete with secret police who arrest, torture and summarily execute political dissidents. Iran has an electoral system similar to ours, except their politicians preselected by religious authorities, whereas ours are preselected by the wealthy elite. Or as the Iranians see it, they worship God, while we worship money.
Every justtication our leaders gave us for starting and continuing this war has been and continues to be false. Our leaders knew Iraq was not a WMD threat before the war. Even Powell and Rice knew this:
http://www.omnithoughts.com/saddammemoryhole.htm
http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/ArticleID/2334
We also knew from the beginning that none of the 9-11 hijackers came from Iraq. The only connection between 911 and Iraq was that our leaders frequently mentioned the Iraq and 911 in the same sentence. Most of us drew a false connection where none existed:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0314/p02s01-woiq.html
We were also told about gross human rights violations and crimes against humanity in Iraq but out of context, without a time reference or without our leaders admitting the role the west and the US specifically played in supporting those atrocities.
Add it up, and it was obvious even back in March 2003 that we were being manipulated. But most people never saw it and swallowed the whole BS story hook, line and sinker.
So why would any rational person believe the news and our leaders are telling us the truth now, but were lying back then?
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/v/bushfoolme.htm
Of course we are being manipulated. Key words which should be a big clue that we are being lied to are:
terrorist, freedom, democracy, evil, islamofacist, ... there are many other words which are used to manipulate us.
This is not an "I told you so" rant, but an attempt to make people think about what they are being told and then asking themselves if this makes sense.
For example, which country is more democratic? Saudi Arabia or Iran? Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, complete with secret police who arrest, torture and summarily execute political dissidents. Iran has an electoral system similar to ours, except their politicians preselected by religious authorities, whereas ours are preselected by the wealthy elite. Or as the Iranians see it, they worship God, while we worship money.
The I-told-you-so argument goes a long way in making sure that it doesn't happen again but solves nothing .
Continually defending Bush in his self defeating policy makes things FAR worse.
Continually defending Bush in his self defeating policy makes things FAR worse.
There was more justification for going into Saudi Arabia than Iraq due to 9-11. 14 of the 19 attackers were Saudi as is Bin Laden and most of the money that funded Al Qaeda and Islamic fundamentalist movements worldwide. The Wahabi movement is more of a threat than Saddam ever was.
You are right CK, but that is not the perception most people had in March 2003. Years of demonizing Saddam Hussein created an exaggerated perception of a threat where little to no threat existed. Yet people have a flase sense that Saudi Arabia is an ally. Sure Saudi Arabia's rulers are pro-west. They need the west's money, technology and weaponry to maintain their grip on power. Saudi Arabia is unstable because it has thousands of princes who live opulent lifestyles due to their birthright at the expense of average citizens. If the oil money every gets tight, I doubt the average Saudi will tolerate going without so that Saudi princes can jetset in Paris and Dubai.
Exactly . I just hate it when people like Barack Obama Respond to the question of Iraq with "Well I said the war was wrong from the onset" I think when people pose that question they are asking for a solution not a reproach .
I think more people hate it when someone like Bush and Cheney decide to invade another country against all advice and wisdom, make a total mess of the situation then blame everyone else for the disaster.
As far as I can see the only purpose of the current operations in Iraq is to prolong the war as long as possible so the next administration(probably Democrat) is going to be left holding the bag.
As far as I can see the only purpose of the current operations in Iraq is to prolong the war as long as possible so the next administration(probably Democrat) is going to be left holding the bag.
I know I hated it . The UN security council hated it . Pretty much everyone who was not a "good bushy" hated it .
Well, not enough people hated it. The biggest problem of all being the apathy and appeasement given by the international community. History shows that such indifference only serves to stimulate more imperialism from the likes of Hitler, Mussolini, and Bush. Since the world chooses not to show toughness with these criminals, war becomes inevitable.
Several sources have determined that Bush plans invasions into Iran and thereafter into Pakistan. Eventually, the amount of war and casualties will be so great that the world will become far too destabilized. Only then will the international community finally take corrective actions against Bush.
Preventive medicine is always best. But the world just doesn't seem to get it.
Several sources have determined that Bush plans invasions into Iran and thereafter into Pakistan. Eventually, the amount of war and casualties will be so great that the world will become far too destabilized. Only then will the international community finally take corrective actions against Bush.
Preventive medicine is always best. But the world just doesn't seem to get it.