An open letter to Jack Layton

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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Good canadian boys are being eaten in the name of a country I don't care about. i support our troops, but I do not support mindless waste in the name of bringing democracy to the beast. If the Afghans are content with torture and murder, let them have their pie and eat it. I am sorry, but a Canadian life is more valubale then an afghani's.
 
May 28, 2007
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Good canadian boys are being eaten in the name of a country I don't care about. i support our troops, but I do not support mindless waste in the name of bringing democray to the beast. If the Afghans are content with torture and murder, let them have their pie and eat it it.

I Can't say I echo your sentiment....Wait until you see what has happened all over the world happen here from these fanatical jihadists...it's going to happen.
The place was a training ground, a brain washing centre, funded by billions of dollars from opium...
you just can't have that anywhere on the planet and be safe.....
these people need to be exterminated, the country itself brought into the 21st century.....Even muslims agree with this stuff that live here in peace and freedom....they want to make a life here and live normal, go to Mosque and not be threatened into subversion.....
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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Toronto
the thing is... the threat, whoever it maybe be will never be neutravlized. The ali-babas blend in with the majority, they don't combat enemies, they fight civilians. I hate Muslims like I hate Catholics.... **** Mohammed, **** Jesus.

Can't say I am a bigot, I hate em all
 
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May 28, 2007
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the thing is... the threat, whoever it maybe be will never be neutravlized. The ali-babas blend in with the majority, they don't combat enemies, they fight civilians. I hate Muslims like I hate Catholics.... **** Mohammed, **** Jesus.

Can't say I am a bigot, I hate em all
yer not helping....yer driving me insane in fact......
But i still want to get into your pants....
Stop this ugriness.....
can i play with your shorts
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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Vancouver Island
well i think the point in this thread is whether it's a good idea for a politician with the media at his beck and call to notsend the wrong message to the troops....
With the global village being what it is...
One should be more carefull in giving the troops the impression they are loseing their brothers and sister for nothing....
That they are in fact he said It's hopeless is not doing anyone's moral any good over there......

It's inept of him to grand stand like this and cause this sort of moral deflater.......

You don't give the troops much credit for having brains, you'd think the troops are a bunch of
little children who actually get sucked into any of this.
 
May 28, 2007
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You don't give the troops much credit for having brains, you'd think the troops are a bunch of
little children who actually get sucked into any of this.
From what I said and the the OP is this really fair to ask?

Concern for moral is a very real issue. It's not a question of brains.It's a question of subtleties entering their heads. Actually in this case not so subtle.

I stated in another thread recently about a chat I had with someone who's sister came back from Afghanistan "Really fukced up" as he put it. Then emphasised that "They all are coming back really fukced up".
So given the possibilty of them hearing such negativity coming out of parliment in their situation I don't think it was a moral booster........

<doc's way to make a point>
wait a secound here....are you saying talloola it's a good thing to send a message to them that they are in a hopeless situation....this is a good thing? This should be tolerated what layton said?

You want to jump to more conclusions<refferance to the credit i give the troops> ,

how about baby killers...lets just call em baby killers and see what effect that has on them...

Ok to clarify, i know talloola you wouldn't do that.

I'm saying this cause, back in the Viet Nam war this was said , and got back to the soldiers. We all know how they felt coming home, and how they were treated.Ask a Viet Nam vet and they all feel like the public blamed them and they were the only army returning to america without any pride .

It's actually one of the lessons learned and is why there is so much debate on the support of our troops issue.

People all want to support them but they also want to voice their opinion on a war some think we should not be in.
We all are having a hard time with it.
ya dig.

Now ..no i don't think they are children, but in a war zone there is a very delicate balance of moral to deal with......

cheers
taloola
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
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Vancouver Island
From what I said and the the OP is this really fair to ask?

Concern for moral is a very real issue. It's not a question of brains.It's a question of subtleties entering their heads. Actually in this case not so subtle.

I stated in another thread recently about a chat I had with someone who's sister came back from Afghanistan "Really fukced up" as he put it. Then emphasised that "They all are coming back really fukced up".
So given the possibilty of them hearing such negativity coming out of parliment in their situation I don't think it was a moral booster........

<doc's way to make a point>
wait a secound here....are you saying talloola it's a good thing to send a message to them that they are in a hopeless situation....this is a good thing? This should be tolerated what layton said?

You want to jump to more conclusions<refferance to the credit i give the troops> ,

how about baby killers...lets just call em baby killers and see what effect that has on them...

Ok to clarify, i know talloola you wouldn't do that.

I'm saying this cause, back in the Viet Nam war this was said , and got back to the soldiers. We all know how they felt coming home, and how they were treated.Ask a Viet Nam vet and they all feel like the public blamed them and they were the only army returning to america without any pride .

It's actually one of the lessons learned and is why there is so much debate on the support of our troops issue.

People all want to support them but they also want to voice their opinion on a war some think we should not be in.
We all are having a hard time with it.
ya dig.

Now ..no i don't think they are children, but in a war zone there is a very delicate balance of moral to deal with......

cheers

These guys are tough, dedicated, are there because they want to be there, everything that goes on
at home is all 'politics' and they know that. We can never understand or pretend we know what
they are going through. As a citizen I support them thoroughly, don't want them to be there, but
I understand the mission and what it means and why they are there.
We are a democracy, and have all the rights in the world to give our opinions, irrespective of what anyone thinks,
especially politicians, as that seems to be their job. They only think of themselves most of the time.
We won't know their real feelings, just there political stand.
This is being treated with a too fragile hand, and I'm sure the troops can see that too. Its all so
fake.
If you can't stand what Jack Layton said, you are of 'another' political persuasion, so be it, we all
understand that. And, of course there are a few exceptions to every rule, I will accept that.
The delicate balance to deal with is not in the war zone, it is at home, as that word is thrown
around all over the place, and beaten to death to put others down.
taloola
 
May 28, 2007
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Talloola,
I read your post and really and truly these thoughts mirror my sentiments.

I think there is just 1 point we totally disagree on and thats the "Be careful what you say during war, so as to not harm in any way our troops In this case he actually rallied the Taliban and gave them the encouragement to go on"..yes/no? to the latter

I'm not anti NDP. True i am a Liberal and really feel the only time the conservatives ever got into power was when the liberals lost an election.

<speaking to everyone now>

These psuedo conservative red neck morons in power, filled with ontario's rasict harris enforcers have got to be gotton rid of to the point of 0 seats.

I have never seen a prime minister get into power and do nothing but campaign at the country's expense...i mean if you can't at least see that then well we're doomed for he prolly get back in...
 
May 28, 2007
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Layton's reply

Thank you for your comments following my recent press conference on Afghanistan. I welcome the opportunity to explain the timing of the press conference and the federal NDP's position on Canada's role in Afghanistan.

First, my July 4th press conference calling on Prime Minister Harper to work towards a de-escalation of the war was already underway when the sad news of the soldiers' deaths was breaking.

Five years after the invasion of Afghanistan, it is reasonable to examine the present situation. NDP Defence Critic Dawn Black has released our Party’s comprehensive report on the Conservative-Liberal mission in Afghanistan. It provides background on the conflict, analyzes the issues faced by Canadian troops and Afghan citizens, and offers concrete solutions to help stabilize the country.

In commenting on our report, journalist Barbara Yaffe said, "The party details a logical, realistic position in an 11-page dissenting opinion to a June 18 report on the deployment by the Commons committee. It followed several months of hearings. ... The NDP's blunt conclusion is one that is mighty hard to refute." (Vancouver Sun, July 10, 2007)

For more information, please visit: http://www.ndp.ca/page/5462

Some will say that if we do not support the mission, then we do not support our troops. That is not the case. The NDP supports our troops and their families and it is out of the deep respect for each and every one of them that we seek a de-escalation of this conflict. We believe in sending our brave men and women of the armed forces on missions that have clear goals and a specific plan on what our soldiers need to do to achieve victory. The truth is that the mission in Afghanistan has neither.

Since 2001, military efforts in Afghanistan have failed to bring peace, reduce poverty, stop heroin production, or help reconstruct Afghanistan. NATO was supposed to secure some areas of the country, where institutions could be strengthened and development projects executed, and therefore, help the Afghan government to deliver stability to its citizens. The sad truth is that both U.S. and NATO military efforts have failed to deliver peace and prosperity to the most vulnerable of Afghans: women and children. http://www.senliscouncil.net/modules/publications/014_publication

Malalai Joya, a female MP in the Afghan National Assembly, said, “The situation in Afghanistan and conditions of its ill-fated women will never change positively, as long as the warlords are not disarmed and both the pro-US and anti-US terrorists are removed from the political scene of Afghanistan.” (Quote from speech delivered to 2006 NDP National Convention)

The former Foreign Affairs Minister of Afghanistan, from the pre-Taliban regime, Najibullah Lafraie, stated, "If the international community wants to deny the Taliban and their allies an important recruiting tool, it must withdraw Western troops from Afghanistan as soon as possible." (Reported in Spiegel On-Line, September 6, 2006)

Looking forward, whether it's on climate change, child care, prescription drugs, corporate crime, the high cost of gas and ATM fees, or takeovers by foreign companies the federal NDP is working on the issues that everyday Canadians care about. You can find out more about our work at http://www.ndp.ca or by subscribing to our e-mail bulletin at subscribe@ndp.ca.

Again, I appreciate the time you have taken to register your views on this difficult issue.

Sincerely,



Jack Layton, MP (Toronto-Danforth)
Leader, New Democratic Party of Canada
 

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
4,846
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The more Taliban we kill over there are that many we won't have to battle on our own streets. But,I'm afraid that our troops will be pulled out of "Stan in the next year or so,due to appeasers like Layton.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
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Y'all got that right.

Afghanistan isn't Iraq though some try to tie them up together into one war.
Afghanistan was were the terrorists trained. Al Qaeda opperated out of there and the Fundie psychos the Taleban gained a lot of support in screwing over the rivals for control of the country. If more countries would step up and take it to them, the war would end sooner.

I think if we go before it's sorted out over there, then it's only a matter of time before then show up here to continue the fight.

The more Taliban we kill over there are that many we won't have to battle on our own streets. But,I'm afraid that our troops will be pulled out of "Stan in the next year or so,due to appeasers like Layton.
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
1,339
30
48
Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
the word "appeaser" is a tad too loaded to toss around so casually, especially with regards to the "mission" as it stands. What about "appeasing" the US military-industrial complex?? That's basically what we're doing, we weren't buying enough new or second-hand war-related crap, now we are.

Stating that pulling out of a totally pointless jug-f&%k is "appeasing" anyone is disingenuous at the least.

Leaving in 2009 as planned is what we should do IMO.

And as for "less of 'them' to fight on our streets" PLEASE, there are more of "them" - with actual justifications that any non-ideologue can easily appreciate- than there were before this madness ever got started.

Question- IF, RIGHT NOW, someone were to, say, smash a plane into a Canadian target, saying that the Western aggresion against their country has literally driven them INSANE, how would you feel?? What should be the reaction- double, triple the agression?? Call it a lie??

We couldn't, in my mind, not anymore. If the US got "hit" large by "them" (and if "they" actually came right out and said something to the effect of "you brought war to us, we're bringing WAR to YOU" -and for the sake of argument, say it was an Iraqi, just an angry, young professional who'd seen all their friends killed over the past 3 years- no 'al quaeda connection', no nothing, just one extremely capable, ticked off person) who could actually place the blame on "them" without ever even imagining their own complicity??

I bet this will be shot down (well, supposedly, I guess) with "OH so you blame the victim?!?!?"


Nope. This current agression is a cycle that is WILLINGLY perpetuated by the West.

The US and Britain and now to some extent Canada has smashed enough stuff that we can NO LONGER cry about when someone else decides to smash us.

How many "9/11"s happen a year in Iraq?? I mean victims wise, civilian victims.

In Canada, we haven't had ONE.. yet... and if leaving someone the hell alone and admitting we were WRONG is "appeasing", then maybe we need to talk to the Websters people about changin some definitions
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
I think eventually someone comes along and tells you that if you really want to win a war you have to really want to win. You want to have it your way and the old standard of might makes right come into play. Instead of all this war over there with smart weapons and careful ops trying not to hurt too many civilians [and doing not so hot a job at that] you deliver nuclear strikes to major cities in the country and work your way down until there is no one left or someone holds up a white flag.

Nothing is left there alive, and no one can really return there for years and years. Go through the routine, country by country until you run out of people with an interest in allowing anyone who might talk about committing a terrorist act on the West.

When you look at some of these Mideast countries for example, you can see plenty of people wanting to talk about positions and legal wars, but no one and I mean no one is going to stand up against the US or any other major power should they melt a country or two. No worries about the oil either as it will come right up out of the ground pretty as you please afterward too.

It's not like we don't have mad dog killers in the West, we just try to make enough rules to keep the buggers muzzled and on a short leash. While people are sitting and listening to their neighbour talk about toss all the rules out, this is something that they should take the time to consider. It's not this method of war was ever taken off the table. The only thing that stands between them and that, is reason and sensability. Terrorize the people here enough and what holds that back starts to slip a little.

While we may be a long way away from that sort of thing right now, we can eventually get there if conditions arise.

the word "appeaser" is a tad too loaded to toss around so casually, especially with regards to the "mission" as it stands. What about "appeasing" the US military-industrial complex?? That's basically what we're doing, we weren't buying enough new or second-hand war-related crap, now we are.

Stating that pulling out of a totally pointless jug-f&%k is "appeasing" anyone is disingenuous at the least.

Leaving in 2009 as planned is what we should do IMO.

And as for "less of 'them' to fight on our streets" PLEASE, there are more of "them" - with actual justifications that any non-ideologue can easily appreciate- than there were before this madness ever got started.

Question- IF, RIGHT NOW, someone were to, say, smash a plane into a Canadian target, saying that the Western aggresion against their country has literally driven them INSANE, how would you feel?? What should be the reaction- double, triple the agression?? Call it a lie??

We couldn't, in my mind, not anymore. If the US got "hit" large by "them" (and if "they" actually came right out and said something to the effect of "you brought war to us, we're bringing WAR to YOU" -and for the sake of argument, say it was an Iraqi, just an angry, young professional who'd seen all their friends killed over the past 3 years- no 'al quaeda connection', no nothing, just one extremely capable, ticked off person) who could actually place the blame on "them" without ever even imagining their own complicity??

I bet this will be shot down (well, supposedly, I guess) with "OH so you blame the victim?!?!?"


Nope. This current agression is a cycle that is WILLINGLY perpetuated by the West.

The US and Britain and now to some extent Canada has smashed enough stuff that we can NO LONGER cry about when someone else decides to smash us.

How many "9/11"s happen a year in Iraq?? I mean victims wise, civilian victims.

In Canada, we haven't had ONE.. yet... and if leaving someone the hell alone and admitting we were WRONG is "appeasing", then maybe we need to talk to the Websters people about changin some definitions
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
5,468
109
63
Florida, Hurricane Central
Here's the letter Jack Layton sent me



Dear Toro

If I ever catch you with my wife again in the middle of the afternoon, so help me God, I will kill you. I really will.




Sincerely,



Jack Layton, MP (Toronto-Danforth)
Leader, New Democratic Party of Canada

p.s. I hope you'll support the NDP in the upcoming election.
 
May 28, 2007
3,866
67
48
Honour our Fallen
I think eventually someone comes along and tells you that if you really want to win a war you have to really want to win. You want to have it your way and the old standard of might makes right come into play. Instead of all this war over there with smart weapons and careful ops trying not to hurt too many civilians [and doing not so hot a job at that] you deliver nuclear strikes to major cities in the country and work your way down until there is no one left or someone holds up a white flag.

Nothing is left there alive, and no one can really return there for years and years. Go through the routine, country by country until you run out of people with an interest in allowing anyone who might talk about committing a terrorist act on the West.

When you look at some of these Mideast countries for example, you can see plenty of people wanting to talk about positions and legal wars, but no one and I mean no one is going to stand up against the US or any other major power should they melt a country or two. No worries about the oil either as it will come right up out of the ground pretty as you please afterward too.

It's not like we don't have mad dog killers in the West, we just try to make enough rules to keep the buggers muzzled and on a short leash. While people are sitting and listening to their neighbour talk about toss all the rules out, this is something that they should take the time to consider. It's not this method of war was ever taken off the table. The only thing that stands between them and that, is reason and sensability. Terrorize the people here enough and what holds that back starts to slip a little.

While we may be a long way away from that sort of thing right now, we can eventually get there if conditions arise.
Mass murder? Drop nuclear weapons .Melt a country or two.
Your insane.
Your a troll typing nonsense in some stupor.It's fun huh?
Idiot
 

unspoken

Nominee Member
Jun 3, 2005
64
0
6
SK
Here's what I'd like to say to Jack:

Dear Jack, please stop using the phrase "this is what Canadians want" when ending every point of a policy you'd like to see implemented. If it was what Canadians wanted, then at some point in history more than 20% of Canadians would have voted for your party.
 
May 28, 2007
3,866
67
48
Honour our Fallen
Here's what I'd like to say to Jack:

Dear Jack, please stop using the phrase "this is what Canadians want" when ending every point of a policy you'd like to see implemented. If it was what Canadians wanted, then at some point in history more than 20% of Canadians would have voted for your party.
AAAAAAAAA
too true......
I dunno ..do you think he typed that or is this a form letter?