Why I am no longer attending the Anglican Church

[look3467]

St. Paul gets a bad rap these days. Not from me, he is one of the early church figures I truly admire.

Take away the faith he displayed, since many are not comfortable with that, and just look at the sheer energy of the guy! I mean, journey after journey after journey through the Empire, establishing churches, evangelizing, making pastoral visits to already established churches. He seems to have had a stamina that most of us men today, heck most of them back in those days, would not be able to emulate.

Before the Apostle Paul was converted, he was sentencing Christians to death. He was to Christians what Hitler was to the Jews.

On the road to Damascus to deliver a list of Christian names to be killed, God stopped him in his tracks.

Having seen Jesus spiritually, his heart was transformed, changed to that of a believer in Jesus.

The thing he most hated, the thing he became, a Christian.

If it were not for the Holy Spirit in Him, he would have had no drive.

Today, our strength lies not in our selves, but the Holy Spirit in us that drives us.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[sanctus]

Before the Apostle Paul was converted, he was sentencing Christians to death. He was to Christians what Hitler was to the Jews.


Peace>>>AJ:love9:

Bit of an overstatement, he was hardly on the same level as der Fueher. By the way, Hitler never did anything to the Jews.

 

[RomSpaceKnight]

The Canadian Anglican Church is embracing homosexuality as the equivalent of heterosexuality even though all biblical references are against this. The church should set an example for the world not follow the world. Ted byfield has a good column on this topic in the Calgary Sun today.

Cheerfully waves bye bye.

 

[tracy]

Bit of an overstatement, he was hardly on the same level as der Fueher. By the way, Hitler never did anything to the Jews.

Huh? So the Holocaust didn't happen? I don't get it.

 

[look3467]

Bit of an overstatement, he was hardly on the same level as der Fueher. By the way, Hitler never did anything to the Jews.

E-plain just how Hitler "never" did anything to the Jews? Better make it good!

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[sanctus]

E-plain just how Hitler "never" did anything to the Jews? Better make it good!

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

It's quite simple. Can you name me one incident wher Hitler personally killed a Jewish person? Or pushed a button to gas them?

The fact is, Hitler has become a scapegoat for the Germans of the period. They blame him. Oh, we did it becuase of Hitler. Think about it, 70 million people did exactly as they were told, and have the audacity to subtract themselves from the blame of their actions. Hitler only DID what they permitted him to.

And don't for a second think Adolph was alone in his anti-Jewish mentality. Allot of his early work was drawn from people who went before him, and the prevailing attitudes of people in Europe towards the Jews at that time.

No, I don't for a second buy the "Hitler did it" excuse when it was Hans or Siegfried pushing the buttons or pulling the triggers.

 

[ottawabill]

ok..somewhat back to topic......

I am part of the Anglican church....I am increasingly upset by some directions they are taking...
as of now I still fight within the church, but there may come a time that I can no longer do that.

With all that said, what are my options. How do Catholic churches run? what would I need to know..or how do I find out more about the Catholic church..... What is required to join their communion? what about the Luthern church??

Starting to wonder>>>

 

[sanctus]

ok..somewhat back to topic......

I am part of the Anglican church....I am increasingly upset by some directions they are taking...
as of now I still fight within the church, but there may come a time that I can no longer do that.

With all that said, what are my options. How do Catholic churches run? what would I need to know..or how do I find out more about the Catholic church..... What is required to join their communion? what about the Luthern church??

Starting to wonder>>>

You're in Ottawa right? You have an option! Yes you do! And guess what, it is an Anglican one! You may not be aware but there is a small but vibrant Anglican breakaway church in Canada, one that adheres to traditional Anglican BCP only worship and Anglo-Catholic ethos. Two seconds and i'll get the link....

 

[sanctus]

http://www.anglicancatholic.ca/

That should give you allot of good information and direction. The reason I thought of them is because the Pro-Cathedral where their Primate is is located is in Ottawa.

http://www.cathedraloftheannunciation.org/

Good people, solid faith and the Church you remember, if that makes sense to you.

If that seems out of the question, let me know and I'll give you info on the Catholic Church.

 

[tracy]

It's quite simple. Can you name me one incident wher Hitler personally killed a Jewish person? Or pushed a button to gas them?

The fact is, Hitler has become a scapegoat for the Germans of the period. They blame him. Oh, we did it becuase of Hitler. Think about it, 70 million people did exactly as they were told, and have the audacity to subtract themselves from the blame of their actions. Hitler only DID what they permitted him to.

And don't for a second think Adolph was alone in his anti-Jewish mentality. Allot of his early work was drawn from people who went before him, and the prevailing attitudes of people in Europe towards the Jews at that time.

No, I don't for a second buy the "Hitler did it" excuse when it was Hans or Siegfried pushing the buttons or pulling the triggers.

Not personally murdering a Jewsish person isn't the same as not doing anything to them. He certainly wasn't the only anti-semite of the time, but I don't see how he escapes his rightful blame because others agreed with him.

 

[sanctus]

Not personally murdering a Jewsish person isn't the same as not doing anything to them. He certainly wasn't the only anti-semite of the time, but I don't see how he escapes his rightful blame because others agreed with him.

That's not quite what I said, or meant. What I am trying to suggest is blaming Hitler is a scapegoat. Obviously the vast majority of the German people supported the racial policies of the government. And if they didn't, they should have said so. Since they didn't, clearly they are equally to blame. and when it comes to the actual crime itself, iit was these people, NOT Hitler, doing it.Look at it this way, if I tell you jump off a bridge and you do it, how much am I at fault?

 

[ottawabill]

Thanks,

As I said I am not ready to jump per say but find things increasingly going the wrong way for me.
I will look at the info and maybe attend a service.

 

[tracy]

That's not quite what I said, or meant. What I am trying to suggest is blaming Hitler is a scapegoat. Obviously the vast majority of the German people supported the racial policies of the government. And if they didn't, they should have said so. Since they didn't, clearly they are equally to blame. and when it comes to the actual crime itself, iit was these people, NOT Hitler, doing it.Look at it this way, if I tell you jump off a bridge and you do it, how much am I at fault?

If you have an army behind you and the power to send me to my death in a concentration camp? Well if that's the case, then I'd say you'd carry a pretty big part of the blame.

I very much understand the idea that for evil to triumph all it takes is for good people to do nothing. I just don't think that mitigates the guilt the evil carry in any way. Hitler was the leader of that country at the time and he deserves the condemnation he's received. The fact that others participated or didn't object doesn't change his guilt. They carry their own guilt as well, that's just a separate issue.

 

[sanctus]

If you have an army behind you and the power to send me to my death in a concentration camp? Well if that's the case, then I'd say you'd carry a pretty big part of the blame.
.

He didn't have the army behind him in the 1920's or the 1930's when his party was LEGALLY elected into office, with no secret of his racial views and/or policies. No, sorry, he was who he was because they allowed him to be that way. It is a collective guilt in my opinion.

And even so, army or not, SEVENTY MILLION people..think about it...is there not a word for "NO" in German?

 

[tracy]

He didn't have the army behind him in the 1920's or the 1930's when his party was LEGALLY elected into office, with no secret of his racial views and/or policies. No, sorry, he was who he was because they allowed him to be that way. It is a collective guilt in my opinion.

And even so, army or not, SEVENTY MILLION people..think about it...is there not a word for "NO" in German?

If it ever started so obviously it would be easy wouldn't it? Unfortunately it never does. Things always start more slowly. People in the west didn't even believe the holocaust was happening when it was first reported. It was just unfounded rumours. The whole world shares blame in what happened there, I just don't see why that means we have to defend Hitler.

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

Back to the original post, this explains why some of us will argue for the rights of gays even though we aren't gay. It doesn't affect me directly, but I think we're all damaged when one group is denied rights that we should all be entitled to.

 

[sanctus]

If it ever started so obviously it would be easy wouldn't it? Unfortunately it never does. Things always start more slowly. People in the west didn't even believe the holocaust was happening when it was first reported. It was just unfounded rumours. The whole world shares blame in what happened there, I just don't see why that means we have to defend Hitler.

I'm not by any means "defending Hitler". I am, however, making it clear that I do not for a moment think he was to blame, alone, for what happened. Nor do I think his blame is higher than anybody else's. The blame is on all the German people.

 

[look3467]

I'm not by any means "defending Hitler". I am, however, making it clear that I do not for a moment think he was to blame, alone, for what happened. Nor do I think his blame is higher than anybody else's. The blame is on all the German people.

I understand the blame thing, but Hitler was in power and could have prevented it as well, but he didn't.

Well, didn't mean to get off topic, but your views on Hitler's blame indicate somewhat of a neutral stand, and is looked unfavorably due to the churches inaction during those times.

But I won't continue this discussion on this thread.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[sanctus]

I understand the blame thing, but Hitler was in power and could have prevented it as well, but he didn't.

Well, didn't mean to get off topic, but your views on Hitler's blame indicate somewhat of a neutral stand, and is looked unfavorably due to the churches inaction during those times.

But I won't continue this discussion on this thread.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

Do, because your comments regarding the Church are dead wrong...

 

[Machjo]

The Canadian Anglican Church is embracing homosexuality as the equivalent of heterosexuality even though all biblical references are against this. The church should set an example for the world not follow the world. Ted byfield has a good column on this topic in the Calgary Sun today.

Though I do oppose homosexual behaviour morally, this post isn't about that specifically. What I do appreciate, regardless of your beliefs, is a certain respect for consistency. If you are a member of an organization, religious or otherwise, you follow its rules, and if you disagreee, you resign from it.

Similar happenned to me with the Catholic Faith. There were points of doctrine I disagreed with and so, rather than make a fuss about it, I simply left and joined a different community. Nothing against Catholics; My mothers' onw.

I think the same applies here. You disagree with the official policies of the Anglican church and so have decided to resign. It's only showing consistency in your beliefs. I can only applaud that regardless of whether I agree with your ideas per se.

 

[daisygirl]

Actually, and please correct me if I am wrong, the Anglican Church voted yesterday NOT to allow the embracing of homosexual unions through the church. As someone who was raised as a High Anglican, I am not surprised by this news. Heck, they fought against allowing women to be ministers just a few years ago.

I no longer embrace organized religion. I refuse to be told that my God is better than your God, or that my religion is better than your religion. Similarly, I don't want to hear that about your God or your religion.

I live by trying to treat others as I want to be treated. No, it doesn't always work. But it sure beats starting out with the opinion that I am better than others simply because I belong to a certain organization.

My opinion...for what it's worth.