Teachers drop the Holocaust to avoid offending Muslims

[tamarin]

Kreskin, I've done some editing for you!
"Anyone with a problem with kids in a family restaurant shouldn't be there in the first place."

Should read: "Anyone with problem kids in a family restaurant shouldn't be there in the first place."
You don't have to thank me!

 

[Kreskin]

Kreskin, I've done some editing for you!
"Anyone with a problem with kids in a family restaurant shouldn't be there in the first place."

Should read: "Anyone with problem kids in a family restaurant shouldn't be there in the first place."
You don't have to thank me!

No absolutely not. Everyone can find a problem with a 3 year old being a 3 year old. Kids make noise. Big friggin deal. If one expects a young kid to sit with hands folded for more the four seconds he's in for a surprise. I don't mind kids being kids in a family restaurant. As long as their not climbing on my table. If I didn't want to be around kids I should go to diner likely not catering to young families.

 

[hermanntrude]

Herman, I read your link and I see the Brits are trying to give teachers a helping hand in discipline:

"Teachers have been given tough new powers to restrain and punish classroom yobs.
From now on their rights to use force to control aggressive pupils and to impose disciplinary sanctions are enshrined in law for the first time."



Good to see! Certainly, in Canada the simpleminded - and there are plenty of Canadians with no more meat in their nut than an acorn - have to be confronted in their campaign to lionize children and champion their rights. We need functioning schools. And teachers confident of what it is they're doing and the means to do it.

yes well it is good news...

My wife was teaching in the UK for two years. she had special training at once stage which sounds very useful. It was all about physically restraining a kid without hurting it. Lots of very clever techniques.

 

[hermanntrude]

No absolutely not. Everyone can find a problem with a 3 year old being a 3 year old. Kids make noise. Big friggin deal. If one expects a young kid to sit with hands folded for more the four seconds he's in for a surprise. I don't mind kids being kids in a family restaurant. As long as their not climbing on my table. If I didn't want to be around kids I should go to diner likely not catering to young families.

I agree with you on this kreskin. Although it IS easier if the kid isnt a maniac. Although most kids tend to know when they're not appreciated and that can make them act worse i suspect, so the attitude of the people around them might be part of the problem.

 

[tamarin]

Kreskin, if a kid fires a spoon at me in a family restaurant I ask the parent politely but firmly to pick it up. I don't mind the little blighters but if they take to firing missiles I draw the line.

Herman, I'm old school when it comes to kids. I believe in corporal punishment and the government keeping its big nose out of family affairs.
Yes, we saw some abuse in the past but now the family and school system are in crisis due to stupid policies on the part of government ministries. Special interests are an abomination.

 

[hermanntrude]

i'm sorry but beating a kid will NOT help. there are better ways. Violence is never the answer.

 

[Kreskin]

Kreskin, if a kid fires a spoon at me in a family restaurant I ask the parent politely but firmly to pick it up. I don't mind the little blighters but if they take to firing missiles I draw the line.

Herman, I'm old school when it comes to kids. I believe in corporal punishment and the government keeping its big nose out of family affairs.
Yes, we saw some abuse in the past but now the family and school system are in crisis due to stupid policies on the part of government ministries. Special interests are an abomination.

And that has happened how many times in your life? I have never had a blighter firing spoonfuls of anything at me in a restaurant. I don't think that's tolerated by anyone. But I believe Herm is referring to people thumbing their noses at kids being normal kids. If one doesn't like seeing or hearing kids he shouldn't go where kids will be. There are plenty of other establishments where kids won't be.

 

[tamarin]

No, Herman, a good welltimed swat is golden. I come from a neighbourhood and time where corporal punishment was routine. It worked. The neighbourhood was safe, kids were polite. Adults were involved. A wonderful period in our history. I haven't seen its like since.
And we certainly don't need more counsellors and therapists for children. It's an industry and a blight on the soul of the western world.

 

[Kreskin]

I know a guy who spent 25 years in "the projects" in Chicago as pediatrician. He felt the negativity of parents was the worst influence they could have. For example, he knew a woman who had a few "problem" kids who lived on a second floor. She had a stool near a window and the window was open most of the time. He said she spent half of her day yelling at these kids to get away from the window. She fed them negative after negative constantly. She wondered why her kids were a problem. He moved the stool, shut the window and said "here's a start to a better relationship". Now she didn't have to yell at them 5 times a day. Perhaps she could spend her time drumming more positives into them.

 

[Niflmir]

Kreskin, if a kid fires a spoon at me in a family restaurant I ask the parent politely but firmly to pick it up. I don't mind the little blighters but if they take to firing missiles I draw the line.

Herman, I'm old school when it comes to kids. I believe in corporal punishment and the government keeping its big nose out of family affairs.
Yes, we saw some abuse in the past but now the family and school system are in crisis due to stupid policies on the part of government ministries. Special interests are an abomination.

And the government has sanctioned the use of corporal punishment as long as:

1. You don't use objects, i.e. weapons.
2. You don't use humiliation.
3. You avoid hitting their face.

Very reasonable. If you are using a belt, you are assaulting them, not teaching them a lesson. If you are pulling their pants down in public to spank them you are seriously damaging their mental state. If you are hitting them in the face you are endangering their eyes, ears, nose and mouth.

I used to find children obnoxious. Then I realized how awful it must be for parents to have to cope with my attitude. So I changed it. Our children face discipline problems nowadays because people work too much and don't spend enough time with their families. It is well documented. My mother, a teacher, talks about it frequently as well. Children spend more times with TV and video games nowadays. If they spent more time interacting with actual people they would not have the attention problems that they do today.

I had a biology teacher who refused to teach us evolution. He handed us the book and told us to read it, summarise it and turn it in. Then he would put the projects on a scale, the heaviest project got the highest mark...

 

[Tonington]

You know, it's really a shame some teachers act in such ways. When you go about teaching or should I say avoiding teaching for whatever reason, the kids aren't getting the whole story. But having some liberty with how you teach is also good, it makes the environment you provide for the kids more enjoyable. A fine balance between the two...

 

[tamarin]

Kreskin, I've had restaurant war three times in the last 15 years. I've learned to avoid certain 'family ' hours now. I love it when dad grabs junior and hauls him off to the men's room to deliver a lecture. They're afraid to scold in public. Might damage the little nugget's self-esteem.
Nif, what we need is civilized schools and public places. How children behave influences both. I'm a hardliner. Unapologetic about it. We have the problems today because we listen too much and act too little.

 

[hermanntrude]

Niflmir, it's great to hear about someone who can evaluate their own attitude and change it. This kind of flexibility is important.

Kreskin you were correct in your beliefs about what i was trying to say. Even if a kid were to start flicking food at me I still wouldnt hate the kid, I'd have more beef with the parents. If you havent managed to teach a kid that flicking food is bad and won't be tolerated, then it's you who's bad, not your kid.

It IS a fine line to teach the right things. I suspect this article is about those in the system who fail to balance. Generally teaching in england is OK and in most schools you can find the good and the bad. Every school is like this I think... who of you can't remember the teacher everyone knew how to manipulate and the teacher everyone totally respected and those whose lessons were silent affairs with an element of fear involved?

There's always a mix, and i suspect this isnt just a UK thing, I expect if a canada-wide survey was done SOME teachers would be found to be doing similar things.

 

[s243a]

What I don't understand is why Muslims would find the Holocaust offensive?

Muslims didn't shovel Jews into ovens, the Nazi's did that.

They find it offensive because some of them want to undermine the justification for the state of Israel. For history to repeat we first need to forget it.

 

[tamarin]

I guess what we'll have to do is have a Holocaust Day. That way we can make sure it's commemorated. Locally here last year the mayor declared an Anti-Homophobia Day. She made her point. Whatever it was. Maybe it can work in Britain.

 

[csanopal]

I guess what we'll have to do is have a Holocaust Day. That way we can make sure it's commemorated. Locally here last year the mayor declared an Anti-Homophobia Day. She made her point. Whatever it was. Maybe it can work in Britain.

Wouldn't agree with that. I mean, frankly as one person I'm sick to death of hearing about it myself. I do object to it being dropped from history lessons though!

 

[csanopal]

No, Herman, a good welltimed swat is golden. I come from a neighbourhood and time where corporal punishment was routine. It worked. The neighbourhood was safe, kids were polite. Adults were involved. A wonderful period in our history. I haven't seen its like since.
And we certainly don't need more counsellors and therapists for children. It's an industry and a blight on the soul of the western world.

What we need for kids is the vision of them bent over their fathers knees with their pants around their ankles.....a vision modern parents seem to fear.

 

[tamarin]

We need parents who can be parents and the state to get a life. Democracy has become every bit as intrusive, bullying and regulation-mad as those systems it was thought to replace. It is a failed governmental system.

 

[darleneonfire]

What we need for kids is the vision of them bent over their fathers knees with their pants around their ankles.....a vision modern parents seem to fear.

Agreed. We do it in our home. With four boys, that's about the only way they learn anything

 

[CDNBear]

For the love of Pete, what next.