Designer BABIES !!!

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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By Scott McCredie for MSN Health & Fitness
Freelance

It started a decade ago with Dolly the Scottish sheep, the world’s first cloned mammal.

Then a year later came Lucy the Canadian mouse, the first mammal with artificially implanted genes that could be inherited by her offspring. Since then, the world has expressed a mixture of confusion, horror and optimism at the potential of genetic engineering to prevent diseases in humans and “enhance” physical or cognitive traits.

So where does this technology stand? Are we any closer to creating so-called “designer babies”?

And is there a developing darker side in which parents intentionally alter a baby’s genetic makeup so he has the same condition, such as deafness or dwarfism, as his parents?

If the last question shocks you, be clear that a survey published by the medical journal Fertility and Sterility showed that about 3 percent of U.S. fertility clinics—four out of 137 responding clinics that perform embryo screening—already have performed procedures to help couples create children with a disability such as dwarfism or deafness.

First, a few definitions are needed. According to Marcy Darnovsky, associate director of the Center for Genetics and Society, in Oakland, Calif., when people say “designer baby” they often mean different things. Some refer to the ability to select the sex of an embryo; others interpret it as selecting the embryo (fertilized egg) itself. Embryo selection is increasingly used for in vitro procedures when couples are at high risk for certain genetic diseases, such as cystic fibrosis. It allows them to screen out embryos carrying genes associated with the disease.

Most scientists avoid the “designer baby” phrase altogether, preferring “germline engineering” or inheritable genetic modification (IGM), defined as the altering of genes that pass on to future generations. This contrasts with non-inheritable gene therapy, such as when altered genes are added to body tissue, say, a diseased lung, in efforts to improve function.
</IMG>More Reality Than Science Fiction
Although the technology for doing IGM has existed since 1978, it is now only done in non-human animals. If a scientist, for example, wanted to test a new anti-cholesterol drug on mice, rather than trying to find mice with naturally high levels of cholesterol, he could order a line of mice whose genes had been changed to give them this condition. As of yet, however, the technology hasn’t been perfected. Mistakes often are made in the gene-altering process that lead to developmental abnormalities. This is one reason—and a good one at that—the technology hasn’t been attempted in humans.

But some people advocate developing IGM for use in humans. They see IGM as a way to make life better for their children. And what parent wouldn’t want that?

“None of us want to pass on to our children lethal genes if we can prevent it,” says W. French Anderson, professor of biochemistry and pediatrics at the University of Southern California School of Medicine. “And that's what's going to drive germline gene therapy.”
But this kind of argument is a little misleading, says Darnovsky. The technology already exists today for screening out embryos with “lethal” genes, without adding to or changing the genes of a future child. The technique used for this is called pre-implantation genetic diagnosis. Like in vitro fertilization (for infertile couples), it involves removing several eggs from a woman, fertilizing them with the husband’s sperm, and allowing the embryos to grow to several cells each. Then one cell is extracted from each and genetically analyzed. As scientists continue to unravel the code of the human genome, genes associated with other diseases and other traits will be identified.
 
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jimmoyer

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People will instinctively deny that the human race aspires to be an efficient robot.

But that efficient robot, immune to disease, never forgetful, attentive and service oriented,
sans detrimental emotionalism is our idea of God, our idea of perfection.

Buena la manana Curiosity.

:)
 
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karrie

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I think the last paragraph really glazes over the moral issues that come into play with selectively weeding one embryo out of dozens, and tossing the unsuitable ones in the trash. To say that it is technology which is 'available' is not true for many people. If it were me, I could never consider that to be something that was availabe to me to use. Now, gene therapy on my own existing children, that's another story.

When discussing the issue of gene therapy, no one ever seems to want to discuss the fact that we have been damaging our genetic code through chemical inundation, and it may need repair. Shoot, it already needs repair as far as some scientists can tell. Conditions like fibromyalgia still haven't been figured out entirely, and genetic breakdown is suspect. The drastic rise in cancers may also be linked to genetic code failure. While I think using the technology to enhance ourselves or our chidlren is sad, the fact that we may NEED to use it to repair ourselves is, I think, unavoidable.
 
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Curiosity

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Gracias Jim!

Perfection in all things might lead to servitude for the wealthy - imagine having perfect servants?

Sincerely I am all for mitigation of genetic disease which can be identified at the egg stage but when do they start leaving things out to manufacture specific kinds of people too - what then?

Mengele would be proud....
 

jimmoyer

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When discussing the issue of gene therapy, no one ever seems to want to discuss the fact that we have been damaging our genetic code through chemical inundation, and it may need repair. Shoot, it already needs repair as far as some scientists can tell. Conditions like fibromyalgia still haven't been figured out entirely, and genetic breakdown is suspect. The drastic rise in cancers may also be linked to genetic code failure. While I think using the technology to enhance ourselves or our chidlren is sad, the fact that we may NEED to use it to repair ourselves is, I think, unavoidable.
------------------------------------------Karrie---------------------------------------------------------------

I guess that "chemical inundation" you speak of is inclusive enough to mean bad diets,
substance abuse, unregulated unproven testing of vitamin pill efficacy.

That's one point.

The second point you make is interesting. Gene therapy.
I wonder which is better: natural selection and gene mutation OR our conscious manipulation
of it ?
 

AmberEyes

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I have a feeling I'm taking the unpopular side of this...

I believe our bodies are nothing more than a vessel for who we are, a physical something that carriers our soul and allows us to bring about what it is we dream. If a technology comes about that allows us to perfect our bodies, to make them faster and stronger (against our environment) and more resistant to illness, then I think we should embrace it. There will always be a dark side to the technology we use, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it, it means we should regulate it.
 
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karrie

OogedyBoogedy
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I guess that "chemical inundation" you speak of is inclusive enough to mean bad diets,
substance abuse, unregulated unproven testing of vitamin pill efficacy.

That's one point.

The second point you make is interesting. Gene therapy.
I wonder which is better: natural selection and gene mutation OR our conscious manipulation
of it ?

Yeah, when I say chemical inundation, it's pretty broad. We're exposed to so damn much, that scientists can't figure out which is causing what, or if any of it is at all. Plastics, birth control, Teflon, aspartame, pesticides, fabric softeners, perfumes...... the list of known aggravators for my own illness go on and on (not causes, but, things that worsen it).

And you're right to ponder which is better.... manipulation or natural selection. As far as I can see, manipulation is not only better, but it's the only feasible option. My reasons are quite simple for thinking that. As genetic issues rise, so too will the occurances of very complicated, painful chronic illnesses. The cost in health care alone is ridiculous, even for something like fibromyalgia which isn't life threatening. If you could go in and genetically repair the problem, stop the degeneration it causes in secondary arthritis, then you can save that person a tremendous amount of pain, save the health care system a tremendous amount of money, and prevent the flaw being passed to the next generation. So many of these issues just aren't subject to natural selection, because they are not fatal (or at least, not fatal before the child bearing years, such as many cancers), and do not affect fertility. In this point of human evolution, we've essentially halted natural selection, and we need to accomodate for that fact.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
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Maybe if my parents had suspected I would develop diabetes in later life they would have decided to put me out of my misery?

And that is exactly why the old techniques of genetic screening aren't, as the article states, something that's been 'available' to everyone. It wouldn't have been available to me to cull genetically inferior embryos. i just couldn't have done it.
 

jimmoyer

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I can imagine a Crichten book (Jurassic Park, Disclosure, Andromeda Strain, Prey on nanotech,
and a book on Global Warming) depicting criminal forensics on designer embryos.

Imagine the law suits by Hermantude who gets diabetes from the unanticipated
wrongful manipulation of genes.
 
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karrie

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I can imagine a Crichten book (Jurassic Park, Disclosure, Andromeda Strain, Prey on nanotech,
and a book on Global Warming) depicting criminal forensics on designer embryos.

I can just imagine all the story options that arise when you start writing from the perspective of all the possible abuses of genetic engineering.

"Jim and Susan Jones were ordinary people living an ordinary life in an ordinary suburb. Little did they know, their SEARS baby, would be anything but ordinary."
 

karrie

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Sears having just added this item to their Craftsman Tool Line had the concept
of making a human more functional and useful. This concept however admirable
did not have the expected results anticipated by the buyer parents....

As with many of Craftsman's other failures, trying to add too many features at once proved to make the child virtually unusable. The laser levels refused to stay true. The snap system for changing out the numerous appendages failed to hold correctly. And worst of all, the circuit board suffered numerous shorts, constantly tripping breakers and starting numerous small fires. The net result was a useless child, constantly running around igniting couches, curtains, and small animals. If this was what the Jones' had wanted, they'd have simply bred the conventional way and had a child like Timmy from down the street.
 

hermanntrude

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Jun 23, 2006
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As with many of Craftsman's other failures, trying to add too many features at once proved to make the child virtually unusable. The laser levels refused to stay true. The snap system for changing out the numerous appendages failed to hold correctly. And worst of all, the circuit board suffered numerous shorts, constantly tripping breakers and starting numerous small fires. The net result was a useless child, constantly running around igniting couches, curtains, and small animals. If this was what the Jones' had wanted, they'd have simply bred the conventional way and had a child like Timmy from down the street.

useless child??? i hope you're not still talking about me
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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not recently. anyway surely that's a useful child, assuming you want roast hamster on a regular basis.

This here is a prime example of why I frequent these forums. So often in our lives, we spend our time viewing the world around us only from our perspective. We fail to see issues in life from all sides. So many people would look at their psychotic pyromaniac child's mindset as a bad thing. So few would think "wow, he's not only a hunter gatherer, but a cook as well." Yet you, with your unique view of the world, have managed to show me the benefits of such seemingly antisocial behavior. Wonderful Hermann. Thank you.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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As with many of Craftsman's other failures, trying to add too many features at once proved to make the child virtually unusable. The laser levels refused to stay true. The snap system for changing out the numerous appendages failed to hold correctly. And worst of all, the circuit board suffered numerous shorts, constantly tripping breakers and starting numerous small fires. The net result was a useless child, constantly running around igniting couches, curtains, and small animals. If this was what the Jones' had wanted, they'd have simply bred the conventional way and had a child like Timmy from down the street.
------------------------------------------Kerry--------------------------------------------------------------

...but other than Craftsman's mechanical design failures...some new features of their
tool-design-child concept involved some noteworthy advances...