Why is always about Isreal?

Sassylassie

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Jan 31, 2006
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Rarely do I come across an article that I can agree with one hundred percent but this one comes awfully close to how I feel.

Why is it always about Israel?
David FrumNational Post

Saturday, December 09, 2006


Have you seen the sly "demotivational" posters produced by Despair.com?
They look exactly like traditional motivational posters -- pictures of lofty mountains, soaring eagles, etc. -- but with subversively unexpected messages. My favourite: a poster that shows a half-dozen hands -- male and female, black, white and brown -- clasped together in solidarity, over the words: "None of us is as dumb as all of us."
I could not think of a more apt description of the just released report of the Iraq Study Group, also known as the Baker-Hamilton commission. The group included genuine Washington eminences like former secretary of state Lawrence Eagleburger and shrewd players like Vernon Jordan. I doubt that any one of them on his or her own could have produced anything quite so feeble and unconvincing as they have all produced together.
Among the report's big ideas: a major new American diplomatic push to negotiate peace between Israel and the Palestinians.
The report asserts:
"The United States will not be able to achieve its goals in the Middle East unless the United States deals directly with the Arab-Israeli conflict."
That's a familiar enough thought. British Prime Minister Tony Blair made exactly the same point in his address last month to London's annual Lord Mayor's banquet. "[A] major part of the answer to Iraq lies not in Iraq itself but outside it .... [W]e should start with Israel/Palestine. That is the core."
Nor is Blair alone. You can hear versions of this same idea from almost every foreign ministry, think-tank and newspaper editorial board in the developed world.
If pure force of repetition could make a statement true, then the "centrality" of the Palestinian issue to the Iraq conflict would rank up there with Newton's laws.
But before our brains are battered into acquiescence, can we request an explanation of how this relationship between the Palestinians and Iraq is supposed to work?
An al-Qaeda terrorist detonates a car bomb in a crowd of schoolchildren -- and in revenge, a Shiite militiaman kidnaps and murders his Sunni neighbours. How exactly are they motivated by the Arab-Israeli dispute 600 miles away? How would an end to that dispute persuade them to live in peace with their neighbours?
The government of Iran is supplying weapons and training to anti-American militias, in the hope of driving the U.S. out of Iraq and establishing itself as the paramount power in the oil-rich Persian Gulf. Would the Iranian mullahs feel any less eagerness to rule the Gulf if the Palestinians had a seat in the UN General Assembly?
Tony Blair suggests that the failure to solve the Palestinian problem enflames and radicalizes the Middle East. This suggestion is not totally false. But it raises this question: Of all the dozens and hundreds of ethnic and territorial disputes to roil our planet since 1945, why is this one so uniquely unsolvable? Germans do not blow themselves up in the streets of Gdansk to protest Polish rule over Danzig. Greeks do not hijack schoolbuses full of Turkish schoolchildren to demand the return of Smyrna. Bolivia does not wage endless war against Chile to revise the outcome of the War of the Pacific.
The Arabs could have had peace with Israel on easy terms at any time since 1949. They have persistently refused it. The Palestinians could have had a state in the West Bank and Gaza at any time since 1967.
They have disdained that offer too.
Might it not be closer to the truth to say that Arab radicalism is the cause of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute -- not the result of it? There is no peace because Israel's neighbours -- and too many of the world's Muslims -- cannot accept the right of a non-Arab, non-Muslim minority to live unsubjugated in the Middle East. That is the true "core" of the dispute, and it cannot be fixed by negotiation.
Indeed, it could well be argued that these endless attempts by Western powers to negotiate Israeli-Palestinian peace make the problem worse, not better. At Camp David in 2000, for example, Bill Clinton and Ehud Barak offered Yasser Arafat the most favourable deal ever offered to the Palestinians. Arafat rejected the offer, and started a war to get better terms. He lost. Did that kill the deal?
Not for long. If Blair and Baker have their way, the U.S. will soon press Israel to revive and improve it.
From the point of view of the Arabs and Palestinians, Western peace efforts create what a stockbroker would recognize as a unique one-way option. If they win, they win everything. If they lose, they lose nothing. There is no reason for them not to continue rolling the dice forever. But why would a savvy deal-maker like James Baker propose to sign up the United States for yet another doomed, futile round of this crooked game?
DFrum@aei.org
 

northstar

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Oct 9, 2006
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But it raises this question: Of all the dozens and hundreds of ethnic and territorial disputes to roil our planet since 1945, why is this one so uniquely unsolvable?
--sassylassie

The Middle East conflicts are all about oil, opium and a cult that is called a religion that feeds and serves warlords. Don't ever forget the fire in the belly of all the followers that support the warlords, RELIGION.

It is the religious zeal that justifies the violent treatment, the deceptive practices and torture non-MUSLIMS---it is a critical BIG element, and if you ignore the core issue you are driving without and engine...

As the wars raged in other countries the Middle-East has grown in lucrative black market industries of opium harvesting, and oil income, and gathering real estate and business interests internationally. So as their status grew with wealth, so too did the interest in the wealth of the Western World.

In contrast to the the Law of Islam, they saw freedom which they labeled as law-lessness and our women as *****s for being uncovered by their standards. As the contrast between the world of keeping the people repressed and using the Quran to manipulate them, and the world of keeping people free and not using religion to maipulate them, so did the divide.

The greatest threat to the Islamic world is democracy. What this means is that the ordinary people would get their fair share of the inherited wealth of the land. This would seriously destroy the unimaginable wealth---by our standards--that the Iranian, Syrian, Iraqi, Saudis, Palestinians, Kurds--have all at one time been aware of, and yet only a handful recieve.

The Law of Islam was pulled together from notes of Muhammad,as well as the stories passed down through the generations. There was no Law of Islam until 200 years after Muhammad's death.

Who do you think commissioned to have the Quran put together?

It was commissioned by the rulers, and so it was tailor made to suit their purposes. The actual people who own the land have always been ruled by a few, and those few are abundantly rich. The poor have nothing but their religion, the only one they are allowed to practice.

So this isn't new, this has just erupted. The Isreali conflict is steeped in one person attacking the other, yet deep down at the core is the hatred that exists at the religious level.

When you look at the Torah, it sets the foundation for all other religions. Christianity followed, and then jsut as we were warned of false prophets here comes the twisted words of a confused, violent and actually stupid Muhammad [he couldn't get his facts straight and was constantly confused and contradicting himself}.

The hatred of Islam is unpresidented. Nothing comes even remotely close. Everyone should have a read, there are many versions as it is Arabic and open to some literal interpretation. However out of five versions including direct translations the truth cannot be hidden and that is the incredible focused hatred towards all and any non-Muslims.

The same hatred was found in wartime Germany towards the Jews. However the big difference is that they didn't have the steady inflow of money and they didn't have a religious scripture seeped into their culture.


Germans do not blow themselves up in the streets of Gdansk to protest Polish rule over Danzig.
--SassyLassie

A perfect example of what l have said...the Germans lacked a scriptural approval in which to brainwash infants and parents.

Greeks do not hijack schoolbuses full of Turkish schoolchildren to demand the return of Smyrna.
--SassyLassie

A perfect example of what I have said...the Turks have exiled people, taken their homes and businesses, seized and looted churches, turned them into public toliets, all in the name of ALLAH due to the fact that these people were not Muslim.

Bolivia does not wage endless war against Chile to revise the outcome of the War of the Pacific.
--Sassy lassie

Another perfect example of how this third world war is based on a religious conviction to take over the world in the name of ALLAH.

The Hezzbollah is now furious because it suits Syria and Iran to pretend to support the governments and peace that Hezzbollah opposes. The terrorists were used AS A TOOL in order to try to gather the wealth of IRAQ and ISREAL...and now it is in the puppet masters IRAN AND SYRIA to play nice, until they are in a position in which to unleash the arsenol of new weapondry they have feverishly gathered.

All l am saying is that this is about a fuel that didn't feel the NAZI's, nor did it equate to any other situation in which the world had to face and fight against. This is a deeply ingrained hatred based in a faith that works to protect the warlords for which it was written to protect.This is a new sinister threat that has never been faced before.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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If you like the article you'll love the book...

An End to Evil

co-authored with one of the founding members of PNAC, or you can always make a point of reading Ezra Levant's op-eds, an avowed Zionist who also writes for the NaPo and elsewhere under Asper's umbrella. Levant and Frum got Civitas out of the blocks back in '96 so most of the stuff out of those cowboys will probably tickle your fancy as well.

enjoy
 
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Logic 7

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Jul 17, 2006
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If israel would stop oppressing the palestinians, if israel/mossad would stop doing false flag operation in other countries, if israel would stop being arrogant on what they call the holy land, and if israel would accept what UN gave them initially , then no-one would talk against them, simple as that.
 

DurkaDurka

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Mar 15, 2006
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If israel would stop oppressing the palestinians, if israel/mossad would stop doing false flag operation in other countries, if israel would stop being arrogant on what they call the holy land, and if israel would accept what UN gave them initially , then no-one would talk against them, simple as that.

I'm sure you and your like minded twits would find some reason to Hate Israel, even if they retreated to their initial borders.
 

Logic 7

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Jul 17, 2006
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I'm sure you and your like minded twits would find some reason to Hate Israel, even if they retreated to their initial borders.



Not at all, i still have many jewish/zionist friends, i lost some of them when i told them what i really think of israeli-policy. my direct quote was " israel is a fascist state, where they get inspired from the nazi regime"
 

earth_as_one

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I'm sure you and your like minded twits would find some reason to Hate Israel, even if they retreated to their initial borders.

Which initial borders? Initially Israel didn't exist. That happened 60 years ago. Before that that area was commonly referred to as Palestine, even by Zionsists. While Palestine was controlled by the Ottomans, it was a relatively peaceful corner of the world.

Today, Israel's borders are as fluid as ever... Each day, Israel's security/apartheid wall grabs more land from Palestinians, destroys more Palestinian homes, seizes more farmland, and redevelops it as Jewish only colonies. So which initial borders are you talking about? You have lots of choices.
 
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CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Not at all, i still have many jewish/zionist friends, i lost some of them when i told them what i really think of israeli-policy. my direct quote was " israel is a fascist state, where they get inspired from the nazi regime"
That is so funny, considering the commonality involved. One, the Jews suffered at the hands of the nazi's. Two the modern Islamic fascists got their start and education from the nazis. I can think of another state that has that same nazi mentality, Quebec.
Which initial borders? Initially Israel didn't exist. That happened 60 years ago. Before that that area was commonly referred to as Palestine, even by Zionsists. While Palestine was controlled by the Ottomans, it was a relatively peaceful corner of the world.

Today, Israel's borders are as fluid as ever... Each day, Israel's security/apartheid wall grabs more land from Palestinians, destroys more Palestinian homes, seizes more farmland, and redevelops it as Jewish only colonies. So which initial borders are you talking about? You have lots of choices.
So you are advocating the removal of the Jewish state, altogether?

Funny how there is no mention of the Palistinian state in the Quran?

Funny how, when people of the time referred to Palistinians, they were in fact referring to Jew and Arab alike, in the confines of one are.

Here's a funny question, do you think, if Israel tore down the wall, opened the borders and sort of just blended into the Palistinian state and it all became one big mingled country, that the Arabs would cease and desist their actions against Israel and the Jews?
 

Logic 7

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Jul 17, 2006
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That is so funny, considering the commonality involved. One, the Jews suffered at the hands of the nazi's. Two the modern Islamic fascists got their start and education from the nazis. I can think of another state that has that same nazi mentality, Quebec.


It is only your opinion, but can't back it up, just like everything you spew in here.

Quebec doesnt have walls to separates peoples
Quebec doesnt have concentration camp/refugee

So where exactly quebec looks like a Nazi regime?

IN YOUR DREAM.



So you are advocating the removal of the Jewish state, altogether?

Funny how there is no mention of the Palistinian state in the Quran?

Funny how, when people of the time referred to Palistinians, they were in fact referring to Jew and Arab alike, in the confines of one are.

Here's a funny question, do you think, if Israel tore down the wall, opened the borders and sort of just blended into the Palistinian state and it all became one big mingled country, that the Arabs would cease and desist their actions against Israel and the Jews?


Who cares about the Quran, bible and all those fairy tail?

The thing is, it would take decades to earase the suffering of the palestinians, if you think it will stop just by cliking a computer mouse, then you don't understand nothing, and especially this conflict.
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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You are correct, he don't understand nothing. Who truly can comprehend absolute Zero? it is up there like infinity, you can understand it exists, but you can't truly understand it.

But he does understand some things, one of which is the concept of false pretenses.
 

MikeyDB

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There are no false pretenses here are there? Jews have held the world hostage to the manacles of guilt for the Holocaust and blackmailed the world for decades.....Have conscripted the financial and political support of more Jews in New York State than live in Israel....practice the same kinds of inhumanity and marginalization of Palestinians and others as have every other Arab or European community since the dawn of mankind....

No pretense here, those greedy for power and control over the lives of others has always existed...only the state of Israel has elevate the bar to potential for global destruction...in this era...
 

Avro

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This thread proves what the problems are, some think the Israeli's are to blame and some believe the Palestinians are to blame when the real blame falls in both their laps.
 

MikeyDB

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No Avro the blame lies with America and Britain.

The white supremacists of the American and British ilk determined long ago that anyone who wasn't white were suitable for slavery and anihilation whenever they started getting uppity....

Since the only thing that Americans love more than excess....is more excess....it's fundamental to their automotive centred fountain of wealth and prosperity that the American business machine has a foothold in the Middle East....

Americans don't care...just like Canadians don't care about the heritage of the land your ancestors came from....tripe ...as has already been pointed out...

Money and greed are where the responsibility lie for what's happened in the Middle East and anywhere else where the Cromagnon British and the Neaderthal American ideation has taken an interest...

Cave men.... America....it's junior state Canada and of course the mother of all historic perfidy ..Great Britain...
 

Zzarchov

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Jews held hostage the world with guilt? Gimme a break, guilt is up there with shame and good intentions in the la la land of wprld politics.

There are only two ways to massive wealth generation: Some critical resource (usually oil) or a declining birthrate in an industrialized nation.
 

karra

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Jan 3, 2006
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here, there, and everywher
This thread proves what the problems are, some think the Israeli's are to blame and some believe the Palestinians are to blame when the real blame falls in both their laps.
Good grief twinkie - do you really believe that - a nearly extinguished group of people is provided land per mankind's history by the far left sanctified idol aka the UN - settles and turns the dessert into a blooming and productive land - something their idiot arab enemies could never do - and goes quietly about their business of survival - only to be beseiged by the usual idiotic muslim fanaticism of destroying any and everthing that doesn't countenance their antiquated take on the Koran - and this is the fault of the Israelis?

I Think Not. . . .
 

Toro

Senate Member
Since the only thing that Americans love more than excess....is more excess....it's fundamental to their automotive centred fountain of wealth and prosperity that the American business machine has a foothold in the Middle East....

It never seems to dawn on the Far Left the enormous contradiction they propogate when they tell us, on the one hand, that everything America does in the middle east is motivated solely by oil, yet, on the other hand, condemn America's unwavering support of Israel, a nation whose very existence enrages the countries which have all the oil.

That should give the Far Left a tremendous headache. I mean, if they'd thought about it.
 

Fingertrouble

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Nov 8, 2006
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Quebec doesnt have walls to separates peoples

Did you hear about the Quebecer, BC'er and the Albertan who come across a Genie that would grant them all 1 wish?

The Quebecer asked "I wish that you would seperate Quebec from Canada and make it a nation of our own!"

"your wish is granted" said the Genie.

The BC'er asked "Well, if you are going to make Quebec it's own country of it's own and seperate it from Canada. Can you please do it properly by surrounding the whole of Quebec with a 100ft tall wall all the way around it, so Canada no longer has to deal with it!

"your wish is granted" said the Genie.

The Albertan asked " that wall that you just built around Quebec, could you now fill it with water".
 

Fingertrouble

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No Avro the blame lies with America and Britain.

Incorrect.....if you want to blame someone for the "State of Israel", you will have to blame the world, as it was the UN who approved the 1947 UN PARTITION PLAN.

The Holocaust had a major effect on the situation in Palestine. During the war, the British forbade entry into Palestine of European Jews escaping Nazi persecution, placing them in detention camps or deporting them to places such as Mauritius.[citation needed] Avraham Stern, the leader of the Jewish Lehi underground group, whose will to fight the British was so strong he offered to fight on the Nazi side, and other Zionists, tried to convince the Nazis to continue seeing emigration from Europe as the "solution" for their "Jewish problem", but the Nazis gradually abandoned this idea in favor of containment and physical extermination.
Starting in 1939, the Zionists organized an illegal immigration effort, known as Aliya Beth, conducted by "Hamossad Le'aliyah Bet", that rescued tens of thousands of European Jews from the Nazis by shipping them to Palestine in rickety boats. Many of these boats were intercepted. The last immigrant boat to try to enter Palestine during the war was the Struma, torpedoed in the Black Sea by a Soviet submarine in February 1942. The boat sank with the loss of nearly 800 lives. Illegal immigration resumed after WW II.
Eliyahu Hakim and Eliyahu Bet Zuri, members of the Jewish Lehi underground, assassinated Lord Moyne in Cairo on 6 November1944. Moyne was the British Minister of State for the Middle East. The assassination is said by some to have turned British Prime Minister Winston Churchill against the Zionist cause, but for Lehi the priority was to allow Jewish refugees to enter the country and to establish the state on their own.
The British considered it more important to get Arab backing, because of their important interests in Egypt and other Arab lands, and especially to guarantee the friendship of oil-rich Saudi Arabia, and therefore continued the ban on immigration.
As a result of the assassination of Lord Moyne, the Haganah kidnapped, interrogated, and turned over to the British many members of the Irgun (ironically Lehi members were not harmed as a result of an understanding with Haganah, even though Lehi committed the assassination). This period is known as the 'Hunting Season'. Irgun ordered its members not to resist or retaliate with violence, so as to prevent a spiraling to civil war.
Following the war, 250,000 Jewish refugees were stranded in displaced persons (DP) camps in Europe. Despite the pressure of world opinion, in particular the repeated requests of US President Harry S. Truman and the recommendations of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, the British refused to lift the ban on immigration and admit 100,000 displaced persons to Palestine. The Jewish underground forces then united and carried out several attacks against the British. In 1946, the Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of the British administration, killing 92 people.
Seeing that the situation was quickly spiraling out of hand, the British announced their desire to terminate their mandate and to withdraw by May 1948.

Do your homework Mikey Db. The British pulled out of the Mandate and the UN took over and then followed the 1947 UN Partition Plan. If anything the British were preventing or at least trying to prevent the immigration of Jews into the then Palestine.