Catholic Discussion

[snfu73]

My goodness. I'm not even Catholic and I know they teach that homosexual behaviour is a sin. It is not what Sanctus is saying, it's what his Church teaches. You can keep arguing all you like, but it is part of their teachings.

Dude....that's what I'm questioning...these teachings. And, obviously, if Sanctus is saying "Hey, it's out of my hands, talk to god", regardless of what the church is saying, he has his own personal opinions and they aren't too favourable towards gays. But, if that is the case...why on earth should someone look on him favourably? Why on earth does he feel that he is so great that he can judge others based on his...and his church's (if that's what he wants to hide behind) beliefs. Why does he not question god on this? Why does he just accept this? And then, how can he say god is a loving god when it is clear that he is only a loving god to select people that do what the catholic religion says to do...without questioning? This is why I suggest that Sanctus is hiding behind his god and the bible and his church when he says that homosexuality is BAD. And not ALL churches insist that it is horrible. There are gay leaders of other churches. Other churches are much more open to gays. So, clearly, this isn't THE CHURCH...but some interpretations of god's supposed word...and the specific organizations that prop them up.

 

[canadarocks]

Dude....that's what I'm questioning...these teachings. And, obviously, if Sanctus is saying "Hey, it's out of my hands, talk to god", regardless of what the church is saying, he has his own personal opinions and they aren't too favourable towards gays. But, if that is the case...why on earth should someone look on him favourably? Why on earth does he feel that he is so great that he can judge others based on his...and his church's (if that's what he wants to hide behind) beliefs. Why does he not question god on this? Why does he just accept this? And then, how can he say god is a loving god when it is clear that he is only a loving god to select people that do what the catholic religion says to do...without questioning? This is why I suggest that Sanctus is hiding behind his god and the bible and his church when he says that homosexuality is BAD. And not ALL churches insist that it is horrible. There are gay leaders of other churches. Other churches are much more open to gays. So, clearly, this isn't THE CHURCH...but some interpretations of god's supposed word...and the specific organizations that prop them up.

I didn't say it was The Church. don't put words into my mouth, and I'm not a "dude", I'm a she.
And so what? You're wasting your time and you know it. You live in the world. (don't you??)
Are you unaware of the teachings of the Roman Catholic church? And if Sanctus is Roman Catholic, what do you expect him to do, renounce his church to suit you?

 

[westmanguy]

If you are familiar with this forum snfu73 has a trade mark to say to dude to people he responds too.

Its nothing personal..

 

[snfu73]

I didn't say it was The Church. don't put words into my mouth, and I'm not a "dude", I'm a she.
And so what? You're wasting your time and you know it. You live in the world. (don't you??)
Are you unaware of the teachings of the Roman Catholic church? And if Sanctus is Roman Catholic, what do you expect him to do, renounce his church to suit you?

Speaking of wasting time. I don't expect Sanctus to do anything. I do intend to speak out about groups that speak out against homosexuality. I do intend to question. If sanctus wants to go through life blaming all of his actions of ideas of god and his word, he's free to do so. I'm definitly not expecting him to renounce his church. I'm not expecting him to do anything. Am I expressing my opinion? Damn right I am. I though I was free to do that. But, again...I question stuff in this thread, and everyone jumps on me. What's with that...I thought this was a frickin discussion forum. Are the only people allowed to have an opinion catholic? I'm not allowed to express what I feel? I'm not allowed to make points? I'm not allowed to speak freely? Sad.

 

[snfu73]

If you are familiar with this forum snfu73 has a trade mark to say to dude to people he responds too.

Its nothing personal..

Ya...I dunno why I say dude. I've been listening to too much Mitch Hedberg I think.

No insult meant...although I would not say dude to someone who did not wish me to say dude...that would be most undudely.

 

[sanctus]

Speaking of wasting time. I don't expect Sanctus to do anything. I do intend to speak out about groups that speak out against homosexuality. I do intend to question. If sanctus wants to go through life blaming all of his actions of ideas of god and his word, he's free to do so. I'm definitly not expecting him to renounce his church. I'm not expecting him to do anything. Am I expressing my opinion? Damn right I am. I though I was free to do that. But, again...I question stuff in this thread, and everyone jumps on me. What's with that...I thought this was a frickin discussion forum. Are the only people allowed to have an opinion catholic? I'm not allowed to express what I feel? I'm not allowed to make points? I'm not allowed to speak freely? Sad.

I am not blaming any of my actions on God. I am only stating that the Church teaches that any sexual activity outside of marriage is sinful, including homosexual behaviour.

 

[snfu73]

I am not blaming any of my actions on God. I am only stating that the Church teaches that any sexual activity outside of marriage is sinful, including homosexual behaviour.

And you don't question that? That's just the way it is? Because the church teaches it that makes it okay? You don't have any problems with these teachings? You don't speak up and say "hey, maybe this isn't right!"? You don't think that you religion and your church may be interpreting things wrong at all?

 

[sanctus]

And you don't question that? That's just the way it is? Because the church teaches it that makes it okay? You don't have any problems with these teachings? You don't speak up and say "hey, maybe this isn't right!"? You don't think that you religion and your church may be interpreting things wrong at all?

Not at all. I accept all Church teaching without reservation.

 

[snfu73]

Not at all. I accept all Church teaching without reservation.

Scary...really scary. So....why, then, if the church that you belong to is so hard and judgemental on homosexuality, should people not be hard and judgemental of your church? If you don't respect what others are doing based on...whatever...why should someone respect you and what you do or follow? Mind you, who knows, maybe you don't care. I'm just trying to make a point more or less.

How do you explain the discrepincy between catholicism and the teachings of other religions that aren't as scornful and hateful towards gays...and yes I DO see the catholic church as being hateful and scornful in this case? If these other religions are interpreting the words of god differently and not as harshly...who is right and who is wrong? And why?

 

[sanctus]

Scary...really scary. So....why, then, if the church that you belong to is so hard and judgemental on homosexuality, should people not be hard and judgemental of your church? If you don't respect what others are doing based on...whatever...why should someone respect you and what you do or follow? Mind you, who knows, maybe you don't care. I'm just trying to make a point more or less.

How do you explain the discrepincy between catholicism and the teachings of other religions that aren't as scornful and hateful towards gays...and yes I DO see the catholic church as being hateful and scornful in this case? If these other religions are interpreting the words of god differently and not as harshly...who is right and who is wrong? And why?

I have no explanation as to why those who left the Church have chosen to disregard both the traditions of the faith or the Scriptures. You may see the Church in whatever light you choose. We are not seeking to please men, but God.

 

[snfu73]

I have no explanation as to why those who left the Church have chosen to disregard both the traditions of the faith or the Scriptures. You may see the Church in whatever light you choose. We are not seeking to please men, but God.

And you really think you are serving god by being hateful and scornful to gays? You really believe that god is condoning that...and thrilled that gays and defenders of gays are often treated harshly by the catholic church? And, let me get this straight...anyone who is not RC has strayed....so, basically, other religions are...what...crap?

 

[sanctus]

And you really think you are serving god by being hateful and scornful to gays? You really believe that god is condoning that...and thrilled that gays and defenders of gays are often treated harshly by the catholic church? And, let me get this straight...anyone who is not RC has strayed....so, basically, other religions are...what...crap?

Well, frankly, we didn't leave them, they left us. We are the Church christ founded 2007 years ago.

And how exactly are they treated harshly? Are we to condone sinful behaviours in order to be popular?Should we champion people who want to commit adultery? Should we celebrate and hold Masses for those who want to live contrary to what God has taught us?

 

[snfu73]

Well, frankly, we didn't leave them, they left us. We are the Church christ founded 2007 years ago.

And how exactly are they treated harshly? Are we to condone sinful behaviours in order to be popular?Should we champion people who want to commit adultery? Should we celebrate and hold Masses for those who want to live contrary to what God has taught us?

First off, hiding bigotry behind god and the church is one way not just gays, but society is harmed.

Secondly, you didn't answer the questions posed to you....I would LOVE to hear some answers.

Why should our society condone you, your church and your religion for judging others.

How are gays treated harshly....hmmm, by having to constantly be subject to homophobic garbage spewed forth by your churches that cuts into self esteem, rips families aparts, messes people up because they are caught between who they are and who the church claims they should be, for shunning paul martin after bringing forth the victorious motion to recognize the marriages of same sex couples, for what I consider hate speech. If what the catholic church said about gays was applied to blacks, it would be HORRIBLE...but, because it is against gays, it is somehow justified...but it's essentially the same flippin' crap.

Should you champion adultery? No...you should keep out of peoples affairs.

And, are you really following gods words? Or are you following your own interpretations of his words? I argue that it is the latter.

Anyway...again....if you condone homophobic speech...then I condone catholic bashing...plain and simple.

 

[talloola]

Precisely. To be honest with you sometimes I am amazed that people outside the Church are so fond of telling us what we do or do not believe!

I have been reading posts, and understand that you cannot change your "homosexual" beliefs, as that
would be outside the teachings of god, but how "do" you decide to change some beliefs, ex. eating
meat on fridays, or any other changes that have been made.

 

[BmOnline]

Sweet surrender? Joh. Rev 2,6.
We can recceive the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but its not our own glory, or what we do. ALL is HIS mursy. You know for sure, when your wedding is one?

Then the bride must love the bride-groom. Yes, God will make this wedding, and if you not loves Jesus, then you are not invated, simple as that.

So the big beauty churches, they have never collected any to the big wedding- for sure. But they have in fact moved away from the light, into the darkness. What does the Bible tells about it? For sure it says, the one who bring my lambs away, he will have one stone around his neck.

So silly it may sounds, its the facts indeed, surpise, surprise?

Money can't take you to heaven. Only Jesus Christ can do. If you belive in the son, Jesus- then you have the spesial ticket, invitation "on board".

The sad story is, so many millions of chatolikks are in the wilderness.
Who cares? Maria can't do nothing to heal them, defently not the pope.

 

[look3467]

Interesting read concerning universal salvation: http://www.romancatholicism.org

Read it and then talk to me!

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[snfu73]

I have been reading posts, and understand that you cannot change your "homosexual" beliefs, as that
would be outside the teachings of god, but how "do" you decide to change some beliefs, ex. eating
meat on fridays, or any other changes that have been made.

In response to Sanctus's part....um...everytime I approach the subject of what you believe...you just tell me you believe, without question, what god tells you. You are right...I don't know what you believe...and you won't really tell me...you just tell me that you believe what god teaches you...the truth apparently.


Soooo...what DO you believe? Through round about ways I have figured out you aren't fond of homosexuality because that is what you have been taught, and heaven forbid you question that. But...what else?

 

[BmOnline]

Just so AJ! The aime to blaime is the "foggy" human made squander instead of the WRITTEN WORD. Remember, the big meeting in Nikea year 325. Then some people found out how great they was. They put the Bible aside, and makes human (chatolic scriptures, tradition writings) to be THE WORD of GOD. Guess who is playing?

And so the catholic Church demand every one who tried to claim that they was christian, outside their catholic false Church. Catholics deseived all people who tried to call themselves chritians outside their church. You must be a member of catholic before using the name christian, what do you think?
So big it is, yes the lie from them.

If you are eger to find the right answer to this, read Ap 3.19

If you wonder what Jesus did, yes he come down here to heal as, so we cud be close to God again- as it was ment to be. Jesus Christ is just that, to take all sins away from us. In him we are released and free to walk in that door to the big wedding.
The devel is very afraid of the power of Jesus. If you have received the Holy Spirit, and then baptised deep under water in the name of Jesus Christ, then you are promised one of the Holy Spirit gifts.

This is the only way to get this gifts, this is the key Jesus gave to Peter, because Peter had this special communication The Holy Spirit, because Peter did know who Jesus was. And it was no human that had told him so, but God did from the Holy Spirit.

And then Jesus said to Peter, ON THIS revelation (The Holy Spirit) I will make my Church. So here Jesus gave the key to HEAVEN to Peter. And this was the first right Church on earth. After the Kingdom of Jesus Christ was born.

Not at high studies by the Bible, Bibleschools and so on. No, no, God takes the poor ones to make shame of the rich ones. Non-belivers will never get in that door, Jesus says. And remember this, Jesus loves the individuals, not the diamants, gold and glamoar Churches. But because some people are so found of money, they are lost. They telling they are so truely and walks in the big church every week, walk with the right cardinals and so on. But it is in fact nothing, but emptyness. If you loves HIM- Jesus, then money is nothing worth comparing to His Kingdom!

Nobody can earn such much money like Lucifer, but that's all.

BmOnline

 

[sanctus]

I have been reading posts, and understand that you cannot change your "homosexual" beliefs, as that
would be outside the teachings of god, but how "do" you decide to change some beliefs, ex. eating
meat on fridays, or any other changes that have been made.

Things like eating meat on Friday, from your example, are disciplines, not doctrines. A doctrine, or dogma, is a key belief of a faith group. In this case, something arrived at through Sacred Tradition and The Scriptures. Since we believe these come from God, we are not in a position, we believe, to change those things God has taught us. An example would be marriage. the beliefs on marriage are part of the doctrines of the Church and we are no more able to change it than we would be to change the nature of God.
A discipline is a rule of life that is used to enhance the spiritual walk with God.And in fact, not eating meat on Fridays is still taught by the church as a good spiritual discipline.

 

[sanctus]

Just so AJ! The aime to blaime is the "foggy" human made squander instead of the WRITTEN WORD. Remember, the big meeting in Nikea year 325. Then some people found out how great they was. They put the Bible aside, and makes human (chatolic scriptures, tradition writings) to be THE WORD of GOD. Guess who is playing?

BmOnline

Before making audacious claims, you should focus on historical facts. the Council of Nicea did not have a Bible to "put aside" as you put it.
What is called the “Canon”, the list of New and Old Testament books we have now, was settled in 397 A.D. at the Council of Carthage, in N. Africa. It was decided by the Bishops at that meeting, who then said that the list should be sent to Rome to be confirmed as authoritative. At the Council of Carthage, then, is the first time we find a clear list of all the Old and New Testament books as we have them in the Bible now. Before then Bishops had certainly drawn up lists of books that are more or less the same as our New Testament, but not exactly the same.
Before the Council of Carthage in 397 there were three distinct classes into which Christian books were divided:

1. Those books that were officially recognised: the 4 Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, the letters of St. Paul. These were read aloud at the Eucharistic celebrations.
2. A second group was those books that were “disputed”. That means that in some places they were recognised, in others rejected. Among these books we find the Letters of James, Jude, Peter; the 2nd. and 3rd Letters of John; the Letter to the Hebrews; and the Apocalypse. There were doubts about these works. They were suspected. Some of these disputed books are found in our New Testament. Some were rejected completely, even though in some places they had been read at public worship. For example, there were the Shepherd of Hermes, the Letter of Barnabas, the Gospel according to the Hebrews, the Letter of Paul to the Laodiceans. Some of these are probably read by men studying for the priesthood today, but nobody else reads them and would find it difficult to obtain them if he or she wanted to.
3. The last class of book floating around before 397 is those which were never acknowledged as having any value in the Church. They were full of superstitions and ridiculous stories of miracles of Our Lord and the Apostles which made them a laughing-stock. We know the names of about 50 Gospels (such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of James), about 22 Acts (like the Acts of Pilate, Acts of Paul, and others). They were all condemned as “Apocrypha” – that is, false and uncanonical.

We must remember, too, that there were many spurious books floating around among Christians in the early centuries. We know the names of many of them. The Catholic Church rejected these and guarded the collection of inspired writings from being mixed up with them. Once a Council of the Church had spoken (in 397 and again in 419), and Rome had confirmed it, all doubt ceased among Christians as to what was genuine and what was not. The Church sifted, weighed, discussed, rejected, and finally decided what was what. Here she rejected a writing that was once very popular and reckoned by many as inspired and was actually read as Scripture at public services; there, she accepted another that was very much disputed and viewed with suspicion, and said, “This is to go into the New Testament”. The Church had the evidence before her; the tradition to help her; and, above all, the assistance of the Holy Spirit to enable her to come to a right conclusion in so important a matter. The decrees of the Councils of Carthage were reaffirmed by the Council of Florence in 1442 under Pope Eugenius IV, and again by the Council of Trent in 1546. We should get this firmly:

1. The Church existed before the Bible.
2. The Church wrote the Bible.
3. The Church selected its books.
4. The Church preserved the Bible.