How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

[look3467]

Why can you not understand how utterly insane this idea is? Saved for all time, such complete heretical nonsense! Many of the German people who fell into Nazism were Christians. do you mean to suggest that those who perpetuated atrocities on other people which most of us can not even conceive of are still saved? In essence, your thinking is giving permission for people to do the most horrendous things and still they are "saved". It is amazing you can accept such a heresy.No work needed, no soul cleansing, no admission of sins or needs to improve. Just get that ole Holy Spirit, born-again, yeah Brother, in you and you can do exactly as you please!

Sanctus, you are a spiritual man, right? I mean you are a minister of the spiritual things of God right?

What part of our existence did Jesus come to recreate? Clue: Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Are you in Christ?: 2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

What things old and what things new?

Are you a new creature yet?

Based on that verse alone, I know I am a new creature for I don’t hold any of the former laws (Old) but adhere to the new (Graces).

The law (old) killeth, while the (New ) maketh alive! I reckoned myself dead with Christ (Old) and am raised anew with Christ to life.

So, I am alive with Christ’s spirit for ever more!

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[RomSpaceKnight]

En arche en ho logos, kai ho logos en pros ton theon, kai theos en ho logos,
"In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God" (John 1:1).

My point being that in the beginning was God. The word followed and is a human invention. To name something is to know it, to have discovered it. We give him/it/her a name and think we have mastered god. We call him JHVH, Buddha, Allah, Jesus and stand ther and proudly say this is god. We are in effect conditioning him to our image based on our mythologies, local geography and ethno-centric ideals. Who are we to say "This is God"? Are we that arrogant of a creature? A child may look up at their parent and say "That's my daddy/mummy" but has no real knowledge of what makes them their parent. They just have love and faith to go on. When my dad passed away I remember trying to tell my nephew that his PappaRay was my dad and the look of confusion was funny. You could see his mind trying to grasp the concept. Your a big person how could a big person be a big person's dad. Big persons had little kids, your dad was a big person. Or something like that.

 

[sanctus]

Sanctus, you are a spiritual man, right? I mean you are a minister of the spiritual things of God right?

What part of our existence did Jesus come to recreate? Clue: Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Are you in Christ?:2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

What things old and what things new?

Are you a new creature yet?

Based on that verse alone, I know I am a new creature for I don’t hold any of the former laws (Old) but adhere to the new (Graces).

The law (old) killeth, while the (New ) maketh alive! I reckoned myself dead with Christ (Old) and am raised anew with Christ to life.

So, I am alive with Christ’s spirit for ever more!

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

I am seriously beginning to doubt the wisdom of discussing anything with you AJ. You have a habit of ignoring direct questions or points which obviously you are not spiritually mature enough to understand. Salvation is a free gift, but like any gift, it can either be accepted, or returned.Faith without works is not faith.

 

[look3467]

So you are suggesting I do not know the Lord because I am not making up what to believe on my own??

Absolutely not! What I am saying is if that is where God has you to work on His behalf, then remain where He has led you.

I ask no one to change from where they worship God at, but only to see Jesus as giving them confidence in their salvation.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[RomSpaceKnight]

Someone who is of the protestant faith may say only faith is required. Some one of the RC church says faith and good deeds are required. A pagan may say only good deeds are required. I myself feel to follow the example of the Good Samaritan is enough.

 

[look3467]

I am seriously beginning to doubt the wisdom of discussing anything with you AJ. You have a habit of ignoring direct questions or points which obviously you are not spiritually mature enough to understand. Salvation is a free gift, but like any gift, it can either be accepted, or returned.Faith without works is not faith.

I've discussed this issue before many times. "The gift".
If it doesn't meet with your understanding, then reject it!

In my own mine and heart, I understand it well, and demostrate confidence in it.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[look3467]

Someone who is of the protestant faith may say only faith is required. Some one of the RC church says faith and good deeds are required. A pagan may say only good deeds are required. I myself feel to follow the example of the Good Samaritan is enough.

If you can do that my friend, you have what it takes. Love! And love is of God.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[sanctus]

Someone who is of the protestant faith may say only faith is required. Some one of the RC church says faith and good deeds are required. A pagan may say only good deeds are required. I myself feel to follow the example of the Good Samaritan is enough.

Which is the teaching of the Church. To simply rely on faith alone is self-centred and foolish. what good is any faith, any belief, if it is not lived?

 

[sanctus]

I've discussed this issue before many times. "The gift".
If it doesn't meet with your understanding, then reject it!

In my own mine and heart, I understand it well, and demostrate confidence in it.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

So, as long as we are saved, we are free to behave exactly as we please?

 

[m_levesque]

I've discussed this issue before many times. "The gift".
If it doesn't meet with your understanding, then reject it!

In my own mine and heart, I understand it well, and demostrate confidence in it.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

I have just one simple question to ask: Why is it, then, that Bible alone people diifer in their understanding with the early Church Fathers and specifically the Catholic Church such as (to name a few): Eucharist, Abortion, Divorce, Contraception, etc.? If said to have the Scripture as their standard for doctrines...how is it they have no sense of the faith from the first century?

 

[sanctus]

I have just one simple question to ask: Why is it, then, that Bible alone people diifer in their understanding with the early Church Fathers and specifically the Catholic Church such as (to name a few): Eucharist, Abortion, Divorce, Contraception, etc.? If said to have the Scripture as their standard for doctrines...how is it they have no sense of the faith from the first century?

"Bible alone" people tend to ignore those parts of the Bible that does not conform to their individual perceptions.

 

[look3467]

So, as long as we are saved, we are free to behave exactly as we please?

Your looking at a wrong attitude Sanctus. Those are the words of one who holds not the words of God most precious.

If that person’s heart were for God and of God, then it would behoove them to live justly, not trample over the promise of the free gift of unconditional love.


It would be like telling a 13 year old going on into its teenage years that your love for him/her is unconditional and they thinking “wow!, I can do anything and get away with it”.

Would that not be a selfish thought? What motive would there be to live right?


Where then is the appreciation for the unconditional loved rendered?

Truly, if that 13 year old understood what that meant, he/she would honor that love with good works in order to please the father. (Theres where the structured church is needed, for the in mature)


Salvation has already been predestined for all mankind. The problem is that self gets in the way of receiving it with grace and forgiveness.

I was watching the history channel one evening and the subject was hell. They showed a clergy I forgot his name but it was from the early church.

He came to the realization of what I now believe and he graveled with it all night long.

He thought, (By the way this is documented on the history channel) that when he wrote his thesis to the church that if he wrote it the way he saw it, that the people would not have the motivation to seek god.
You know what I am talking about? About Universal: salvation?

Well, after a heart wrenching restless night, he finally decided to write that there was a heaven and a hell.
For he thought, if I tell the people that Jesus died for all souls, then they would have the attitude like what you just said, quote: So, as long as we are saved, we are free to behave exactly as we please?
And that bothered him.
So instead he wrote that if the people did not turn to God by the church, then they would burn in hell if, they died before repentance.
He figured that fear rather than love and appreciation would turn them to God.

So, it remained as written.

So you decide!

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[look3467]

"Bible alone" people tend to ignore those parts of the Bible that does not conform to their individual perceptions.

When as a child, one understands as a child, but as one grows in maturity, childish thoughts are weaned out over the more mature thoughts giving way to stability and independence.

Mature folk need not any other foundation but that which Jesus laid down.

If you stand on it,you will be on firm standings and nothing can prevail against you.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[look3467]

I have just one simple question to ask: Why is it, then, that Bible alone people diifer in their understanding with the early Church Fathers and specifically the Catholic Church such as (to name a few): Eucharist, Abortion, Divorce, Contraception, etc.? If said to have the Scripture as their standard for doctrines...how is it they have no sense of the faith from the first century?

We have to learn to understand that God has given us the ability to choose. That ability came with a consequence. Because we became like as God in ability (Read Genesis where the serpent talks to Eve) death sentence was passed. (In reference to the tree of knowledge)

That privilege or right, God gave us knowingly that death would occur.(ref: Romans 8:20)
Technically, we deserved death not by our own desire, but because of Him who subjected us to this life.

The first purpose was to create the flesh body, give it a spirit and then educate it by knowledge of good and evil. (Enabling choice)
The second purpose was to save all that was lost (All Created first) by Jesus owning up to every jot and title of all knowledge, rendering death of the soul as null and void.
Read: Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
This is a prophecy for Christ as written of Him. He went through the overflowing scourge of mankind and was trodden down by it. (As if mankind was saying to God, “Why did you place me in this hellish place”? “Here’s what with did to your Son!, take that!)
That is the wrath as displayed by mankind in the flesh.

But Jesus remedied the situation read: Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Was not our Lord cursed and hung on a tree? He bought the tree, knowledge of good and evil and all with His righteousness, of which then He gave unto us, if we but believe in Him.

There is now only one tree in the garden of your heart, the tree of life. (Jesus)

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[marygaspe]

We have to learn to understand that God has given us the ability to choose. That ability came with a consequence. Because we became like as God in ability (Read Genesis where the serpent talks to Eve) death sentence was passed. (In reference to the tree of knowledge)

A question AJ, how do you think the church existed before the Bible?

 

[look3467]

A question AJ, how do you think the church existed before the Bible?

The body of Christ did not exist before His manifestation on earth. The church is a body of believers in which an organization developed and called its self “the Church”.

The Lord OK’ed it because the bodies of believers were mainly Jews that needed coaching out of their former beliefs. They needed established structure in that, that is what their former belief were based on. The Temple.

The Gentiles however, found it easy to believe, because they had no structure other than what knowledge they had of life. (They were astructure unto themselfs, not having any knowledge of who God was)


In time, the body grew as like a child that grows towards maturity. The body of believers has been going through a process of metamorphosis towards that end.

The bible which is a compilation of many writers, time and life experiences has always been inspired (Directed) to it’s completion by God to what it is now.

We are fortunate of been born after all that and can enjoy the benefits of all those who suffered, even with their lives to make it happen, so that the world through their efforts would not loose out on one single blessing.

You Mary, need a structured environment in which you find security. And that is quite alright. One reason why is that you always enlist the opinion of your priest.
Don’t get me wrong, I said that in all kindness.

I on the other hand stand on the foundation which Christ has laid, and there is absolutely nothing that can sway me off of it. (I enlist the scriptures as my school master)

It is my secure foundation and I stand firm on it.
I have benefited from all the human sacrifices that went into making the bible what it is today and am most grateful and appreciative that I give God all the glory that this heart can muster.
I have matured and waiting for my final redemption, of which I wait with great expectancy.
I no longer hope because I have it found it.

Hope you find it too!

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[L Gilbert]

I don't think so, my friend. Back those verses with heart, than I might believe you.

Unless there is heart behind any verse you quote, that verse won't have life!

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

You can say that now. But what if I'd come to CC pretending to be a spiritual dood? You wouldn't have known the difference if I wasn't as up-front about everything as I am.
I could have been the most malevolent bugger on the planet, but I may have had a chaismatic and winning personality. Or simply been a troll who uses nice words, like your new friend.

 

[L Gilbert]

Who threw a tantrum and who massacred a city? Couldn't be God, for He is spirit!

Tell me about it?

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

Lemme see, Sodom comes to mind; Gomorrah; Pompeii; Kashmir; Kobe; Nevado del Ruiz, Colombia; Tambora; etc. etc.

 

[L Gilbert]

Is that your assessment of what is going on? Or rather: your opinion?

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

I observed, analysed, summarised, and posted.

 

[L Gilbert]

This is one of the most profound posts on this topic I've yet to read Rom. I believe sometimes many of us are trying too hard to "know" God, to define Him as we see fit. rather than just accepting his presence, we want to condition Him into our image. As you wrote, only in faith can we accept these things. There certainly is not going to be concrete proof which can be put on a table and examined.

To paraphrase Delo McKown; the invisible and the non-existent look pretty much identical.