How can we get rid of our sinfulness?
- Thread starter sanctus
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Hang on a minute slick. So, I am assuming you are stating the Catholic Church is in error.Using your own logic, so too are the Apostles, and God. God said the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church. But according to people like you, for the Church to be in error suggests the "true" church(by your definition, did not exist until 1,500 years after the death of the Christ.So the gates of hell prevailed, until the Protestants came along?
Say what??? So you can't lose your salvation?? so I can become a Christian, then go out and kill somebody and it's okay because I am always free from sin?
The Blessed Virgin Mary is the mother of Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God, for this simple reason, Mary is the mother of the Son of God. Jesus is not only the Son of God but is also God, if we contemplate the mystery of the Holy Trinity, by which we say that God is three different persons but one true God.
Jesus is the Word of God incarnate, God Himself. He who said to the Apostle Philip, He who sees me has seen my Father, because the Father and I are One.
Gospel of Saint John
14:8 Philip said to Jesus: Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.
9 Jesus said to him: I have been for such a long a time with you; and you have not known me? Philip, he that sees me sees the Father also. How can you say, Show us the Father?
10 Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abides in me, is the one who does the works.
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.
According to this affirmation, Jesus is claiming the divinity of the Father and is calling himself equal to God. In other words, Jesus is God.
Elizabeth praised God and exalted Mary calling her Mother of her Lord, Mother of God.
Luke 1:43 y 43 And why has this happened to me, that the Mother of my Lord should come to me?
Eliz
The Apostle also called Him God: John 20:28 Thomas answered Him: My Lord and my God.
The Blessed Virgin Mary is the Mother of Jesus, Jesus is God, the Virgin Mary is the Mother of God.
Not just the Catholic Church! Allot of Lutheran branches do, the Anglo-Catholics do and the Orthodox also,in short, the bulk of Christendom regards Mary as the Mother of God.
All references are to mother of Jesus. There is no disrespect to her in stating that.
But mother of God she's not. If it where so, then Mary would have never exisited in human form. She would be spiritual invisible as God is.
God was in Jesus performing the requirements of God for us. So that means, that if Jesus re-created the new heavens and the new earth, then it also means that the old has been done away with. And Jesus being it's beginning of the new, then; He as God sits to rule as God, but known to us as Jesus.
There has been no greater person favored above all women as Mary was, for she was selected as a vehicle to carry the to term the life and body of our Lord Jesus. And for that, be her name remembered for all generations.
But if any credit is going to be given for our salvation, it is to Jesus the Christ and to none other.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
People chan chosse to call her mother of God, and that's OK.
I understand that she is not the mother of God, and by so doing, I give all due respect to my Lord Jesus.
He attributes is what is reflected in me, and not Mary's.
But I wouldn't make that a point of contention because I understand the salvation process and thereby, the information concerning Mary has no bearing on it, other than being favored by God to deliver His Son.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Be careful now, I can see that you are not able to handle that bit of information without getting the wrong idea.
You by the way have been the first one to see that and therefore deserve an answer.
Please bear with me as I try to explain the creation scenario and because you asked, must also hear me out.
The Father’s creation is the first creation. Adam and Eve is the story of that creation.
That creation produced the vessels of clay. (The flesh)
In the production of the flesh, they became alienated from the spirit of God. (Thus death)
Separation from God means spiritual death.
Thought you are alive by the spirit of birth, yet alienated from God spiritually, or being spiritually dead.
Now, if you following me so far the next step for God is to provide a means by which we may be reconciled back to God.
God placed us in this predicament in the first place, and He alone can take us out of it.
I have scriptural back up for all I speak.
The promised Messiah is that Savior that was to come that was “TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD”.
I mean “the world” not just a few good folks.
Jesus then comes on the scene and changes the Father’s first creation (Not physically) spiritually, to that of which the world, the Father’s first creation has salvation.
Not as the old Jerusalem but a New Jerusalem, a city not of this world.
Jesus then becomes the first and the last to this new creation, Savior of all mankind.
All mankind will be saved, for all of it was given to Jesus as His inheritance.
I will give you a scripture here for that: :read2:Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
There must not be any stone left unturned because it was to be a whole new creation.
Now, salvation is to those who find it. It was made available to us By God in Jesus, and in finding Him we are saved as predestined it to be.
But if we find Him not, then we are at the pearl of this worlds care. And everybody knows that this world holds no mercy even to the ones who find Jesus as well.
But the difference being in knowing and accepting our salvation from the opposite, is that God comforts us through our journey here on earth as if we had heaven to comfort us.
All mankind shall be saved, bar none!
Now, if we have selfish motives, yes, kill and still be saved, but not before your life is required by the laws of the land or God should cut it short from the land of the living.
You have to remember that the earth is the flesh’s domain, and the flesh is a mighty foe to conquer. But in Jesus, it is easy, for we know that we have a placed of security and comfort with Him after this earthen vessels quits.
That is the peace I have knowing Jesus.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Throw in a few bottles of good red wine and yourself for a dinner companion and it's deal! Between us, after the wine, we'll have the world pretty well all fixed up. Better invite Dexter tooHell, invite AJ so he can give us Scriptures on something or other. Don't worry AJ, we'll dig up some grape juice for you.
Sounds inviting, when everyones around the table, I can picture it to resemble my husbands (Italian)
family, all gathered with the wine, and great conversation, and some hollering, (all in good spirits
of course).
In error claiming that Mary is the Mother of God? Yes. But wait before you go off half cocked, listen to the rest of the story, like Paul Harvey says.
This error is none threatening to our salvation! For Christ died for all regardless of what anybody believes.
Now is that is not a bit of GOOD NEWS? Especially to those who think that they could never attain enough righteousness.
You see, mans natural inclination is that they have to do good work in order for God to give them entrance into Heaven. Heaven is given to us as a free gift, not of our works, but His works. The works of Christ purchased our salvation.
Therefore, dear sister, just Ask God to come into your heart and accept Him as your Savior and you have it. Freely given: and Unmerited love from the Father to us.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
.
Exercise is good, ar bith?
Yup. Humor is good, ar bith?
I am here willingly. Maybe I'm being taught, maybe not. Even Hitler had some good ideas now and then. To be truthful, though, I've not seen much of anything in this thread I haven't experienced and thought about for myself.
I stated right off the bat what my motives were and they are to urge people to think about what stuff they suck in. Another thing I also posted was my friendship with Father Henry (RC) here and chat with him now and then about matters. I also have had long conversations with Reverend Greenhalgh (Anglican) in Kelowna when I was there. I and an Eckist minister had a business repairing vehicles together here. I played Tai Chi Chuan with a Taoist priest in Kelowna. Part of how I got where I am in philosophy today is being able to discern inconsistencies. One needs to be able to do that in order to sort out the facts and tie info together. So I'm not really a newbie at religious philosophy.
That's also good, as I've heard that one of the best ways to learn about something is to try and teach it.
Certainly love enables us to be stoic in uncomfortable moments alright. And, yes, I can put up with just about anyone. My patience only wears thin when people refuse to bail themselves out of their ignorances, refuse to channel their anger in appropriate manners, etc.
Anyway, I love you too, but outside the myth.
Gilbert
And for that I thank you.
If I got no opposing views, then I know that I am not accomplishimng anything.
You are familiar with the Job of the bible I'm sure.
Well, the study of Job is a picture of God and Satan as opposing forces.
Satan of course is playing the bad guy (the adversary), while God does His thing as the Good Guy.
God is the one who challenges Satan to test Job and not the other way around.
What is the point?
No opposition, no victory, nothing ventured nothing gained.
The challenge is winnable because God is the good guy. Satan is the earth guy.
We need Satan so that we find to do good. So we learn.
Good program, in that we learn by suffering.
Love is therefore born from it.
Peace>>>AJ
And for that I thank you.
If I got no opposing views, then I know that I am not accomplishimng anything.
You are familiar with the Job of the bible I'm sure.
Well, the study of Job is a picture of God and Satan as opposing forces.
Satan of course is playing the bad guy (the adversary), while God does His thing as the Good Guy.
God is the one who challenges Satan to test Job and not the other way around.
What is the point?
No opposition, no victory, nothing ventured nothing gained.
The challenge is winnable because God is the good guy. Satan is the earth guy.
We need Satan so that we find to do good. So we learn.
Good program, in that we learn by suffering.
Love is therefore born from it.
Peace>>>AJ
Are you saved? This is what some Protestants will ask you. Anyone who thinks they are automatically "saved" simply by declaring that Jesus Christ is their personal Lord and Saviour is grossly mistranslating Holy Scripture, and is committing a sin of presumption. It is GOD alone who knows who is "saved" and who is not. No human creature can declare themselves as being "saved". That false doctrine is a fabrication of Protestantism and cannot be found written anywhere before the Protestant revolt. Salvation is an on-going process throughout our entire lives as Holy Scripture clearly has told us. Read 1Corinthians chapter 13, as it tells us that we must have faith, hope, and charity . If we are automatically "saved", then what is the purpose of hope?
Sola Fides, or "saved by faith only" is taught by many Protestants. However, that false man-made Protestant doctrine cannot be found anywhere in the Bible. In fact, the only place in the entire Bible where the words "faith" and "only" are found together is in James 2:24, where it says,
"You see that by works a man is justified, and NOT by faith only."
That verse was a thorn in Martin Luther's side. He called the book of James a "straw epistle", which meant it was worthy of burning, and he wanted to remove it from Scripture. It must have been an embarrassment to him since he had added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28, in his German translation of the Bible, in order to have it support his false "justified by faith alone" doctrine. James 2:24 is still ignored or rejected altogether by many Protestants.
"You are my friends if you do what I command you." John 15:14
"...work out your salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12
For those who think they are "saved" by faith only, how could they ever ignore those verses?
Both say very clearly that works are needed, and without works you are no friend of Jesus.
They also ignore a large part of Matthew 25 regarding the Last Judgment. Read vs 31-46 very carefully, as Jesus spoke of judging two groups, the sheep and the goats.
Notice that both groups believed, but only one group worked, and they were the sheep, and it was the sheep who were to be saved.
Be sure and do not overlook verses 41-46, as you will find therein where the goats were going to spend their eternity since they also believed, but did no work?
The goats believed, but were they saved by believing only, and without works?
Those who practice "once saved always saved" would have us believe that they were.
Protestants who claim to follow Holy Scripture literally, practice a false man-made doctrine which they have labelled Sola Scriptura or "Bible Only", a term virtually unknown before the Protestant revolt of the early sixteenth century. In other words, they say that the Bible is all they need or want because they claim it contains everything necessary for salvation. Anything outside of the Bible is immaterial and should simply be ignored or discarded. By taking such a narrow view of salvation history, they have boxed themselves in to a limited knowledge of Christianity. This grave limitation exposes them to increased and compounded error, because for them to believe in anything, therefore, they must be able to find it in the Bible. However, the very doctrine of Sola Scriptura itself, is not to be found anywhere in Holy ScriptureThat being the case, how could anyone practice it and not be accused of hypocrisy?
"The Lord says, "These people worship me with their mouths and honour me with their lips. But their hearts are far from me, and their worship of me is based on rules made by humans."
Isaiah 29:13
"Jesus told them, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites in Scripture: 'These people honour me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is pointless, because their teachings are rules made by humans.' ""
Mark 7:6-7
The fact that the man-made "rule" of Sola Scriptura cannot be found in Scripture proves it to be a "rule made by humans", and this makes it diametrically opposed to Holy Scripture and the words of Jesus Christ.
Since Scripture is not self authenticating, and is not self teaching, and does not specify which books within it are inspired, how can the Protestant know that the book to which he holds is inspired at all?
Sola Scriptura has failed this most basic test. It is not Biblical. It is certainly not historical before the Protestant revolt. It could not possibly have worked before the invention of the printing press when Bibles became plentiful. It could not possibly have worked when 95% of the masses were illiterate. Protestantism fabricated this false man-made doctrine of Sola Scriptura simply because they have nothing else to work with.
That thoundeth really goodeth.Throw in a few bottles of good red wine and yourself for a dinner companion and it's deal! Between us, after the wine, we'll have the world pretty well all fixed up. Better invite Dexter too
AJ, my mother makes kids' champaigne out of Welch's grape juice and 7-up. It's tasty.
I think a dinner party would be the thing. AJ, you, Dex, Levesque ... all the folks who have chipped into this extremely long conversation. We'd have a hoot I bet. Then you and I could have a dindin just between the two of us and we could gossip like crazy 'bout the others. (kidding)
That thoundeth really goodeth.
AJ, my mother makes kids' champaigne out of Welch's grape juice and 7-up. It's tasty.
Heh heh heh..we'd rock the house down, so to speak!
...... and incredibly curious. I wanna monitor, ok?
Works for me..ask Fr. Henry about some of the little darlings and their insistent questions!
There are several things which must be taken into consideration when interpreting Holy Scripture, and many of them are ignored by Protestants.
1. The Senses of Scripture. Should the passage be taken literally, allegorically, as a parable, etc?
Most Protestants will take the whole Bible literally, except for John chapter 6, of which they say is symbolic.
2. The meaning of the words used at the time of writing are not necessarily the same meaning of the words today.
3. History plays a big role in proper Scriptural interpretation. The nature and customs of those of which Scripture speaks must be taken into account.
4. The true meanings of what the authors had in mind are sometimes lost in translation from one language to another. Words in one language sometimes have no exact counterpart in another language and a word is chosen by compromise as "closest" in meaning, that is according to the one who is doing the translating. Frequently, the ancient Greek and Hebrew texts must be consulted in order to ascertain the true meanings of the words of Scripture.
5. Many Protestant sects will attempt to conform Holy Scripture to their false teaching, rather than to conform their teaching to the truth of Scripture.
1. The Senses of Scripture. Should the passage be taken literally, allegorically, as a parable, etc?
Most Protestants will take the whole Bible literally, except for John chapter 6, of which they say is symbolic.
2. The meaning of the words used at the time of writing are not necessarily the same meaning of the words today.
3. History plays a big role in proper Scriptural interpretation. The nature and customs of those of which Scripture speaks must be taken into account.
4. The true meanings of what the authors had in mind are sometimes lost in translation from one language to another. Words in one language sometimes have no exact counterpart in another language and a word is chosen by compromise as "closest" in meaning, that is according to the one who is doing the translating. Frequently, the ancient Greek and Hebrew texts must be consulted in order to ascertain the true meanings of the words of Scripture.
5. Many Protestant sects will attempt to conform Holy Scripture to their false teaching, rather than to conform their teaching to the truth of Scripture.