How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

[Dexter Sinister]

My, you are certainly a cynic, aren't you!

No more than necessary, and I don't think you quite grasped the context of my remarks. It's not me that thinks people are so awful, it's the Christian church, and specifically people like sanctus, busily reminding us what sinners we are.

Sanctus, since you--or somebody--asked, is the Latin word for holy, the root of such words as sanctuary, sanctify, and so forth. The sanctus is also the prayer that begins "Holy holy holy, Lord God Almighty..." that's spoken or sung at a certain point in some Christian worship services, notably the Roman Catholic and Anglican ones.

 

[look3467]

Phew, you certainly are a wordy man All that verbiage and I read it twice and still have no idea at all what you are talking about! Who is going to be a priest? Are you that priest? What was the point of all these words and Bible quotes?

May I ask you a question dear? What fire is it that you are on?

Is it for the Lord? And if it is, would you describe to me how you do that?

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Oh goodness! Now I feel stupid. Almost as Catholic as the Pope, eh? Hmm, wonder how he'll handle this lazy Anglican?

Probably the same way he handles everybody, with genuine interest and compassion and concern, overlaid on a pretty dogmatic certainty about the rightness of his opinions on religious matters, to which he has quite a scholarly approach. Exactly what you'd expect from a conscientious and intelligent priest.

 

[selfactivated]

Probably the same way he handles everybody, with genuine interest and compassion and concern, overlaid on a pretty dogmatic certainty about the rightness of his opinions on religious matters, to which he has quite a scholarly approach. Exactly what you'd expect from a conscientious and intelligent priest.

Im listening too

 

[talloola]

I would think that the "HE" you worship, would respect all of us who

stand on our own two feet, think for ourselves, make our own way,

than those who - suck up to HIM., just as we do here on earth. of others

who "suck up" all the time, and can't think for themselves, and gain "no respect"

from others.

 

[look3467]

I would think that the "HE" you worship, would respect all of us who

stand on our own two feet, think for ourselves, make our own way, (Your own way? Of course, surely not His way)

than those who - suck up to HIM., just as we do here on earth. of others

who "suck up" all the time, and can't think for themselves, and gain "no respect"

from others.

“He” does respect you! And: Gives you every right to your own mind!

As for sucking up:Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

I’d bet you would read into that verse: “See” your He is an angry God!”

Or: can you give me a proper rendering of that same verse?

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Dex is a kind and open heart....I tease him he's a closet Pagan because he has a great and loving spirit. Judge not least yea be judged......eh?

Thank you my dear, for speaking up in my defence. You are a treasure.

 

[sanctus]

No more than necessary, and I don't think you quite grasped the context of my remarks. It's not me that thinks people are so awful, it's the Christian church, and specifically people like sanctus, busily reminding us what sinners we are. .

In human thought and mind there are two sides, the good and the bad. We are all composed of these parts. Maybe sinfulness is too harsh a word to use? In fact, maybe incorrect behaviour is better? Incorrect not so much because God says so, though that is its root, but more so because sin, or incorrect behaviour, hurts us and/or others around us. Perhaps the teaching should focus on this aspect more? This forum, for better or worse, has indicated to me that words we use in the Church are words that the general public either does not care for, or does not appreciate.

I was chatting with someone the other day about an old friend of ours who had just left his third wife. This is one of my "gang" from my teenage days. Same age as me. Each of his wives has had at least one child and that is what this other friend and I were discussing.

The point is, we were expressing how hurt the children are from the break-up of a marriage. And that to me is sinfulness, incorrect behaviour, the idea that by pleasing self sometimes causes great pain to others.

Sanctus, since you--or somebody--asked, is the Latin word for holy, the root of such words as sanctuary, sanctify, and so forth. The sanctus is also the prayer that begins "Holy holy holy, Lord God Almighty..." that's spoken or sung at a certain point in some Christian worship services, notably the Roman Catholic and Anglican ones.

(Also the Orthodox) I'm suitably impressed! That is actually also, the Sanctus, one of my favourite chants in the Mass. The only reason really I selected it as a screen name was because I like the sound of the word. I'm also a writer/poet, and sometimes the sound of words turns me on.

 

[sanctus]

I would think that the "HE" you worship, would respect all of us who

stand on our own two feet, think for ourselves, make our own way,

than those who - suck up to HIM., just as we do here on earth. of others

who "suck up" all the time, and can't think for themselves, and gain "no respect"

from others.

Is it sucking up? Or is it acknowledgement of our place in His Kingdom? Mind you, you're not all that wrong in the context of your points. I don't believe for a second God requires us to mouth praises to Him daily without putting our faith into action. I despair of people who sit around waiting for God to move in their lives without taking steps themselves.

 

[sanctus]

Probably the same way he handles everybody, with genuine interest and compassion and concern, overlaid on a pretty dogmatic certainty about the rightness of his opinions on religious matters, to which he has quite a scholarly approach. Exactly what you'd expect from a conscientious and intelligent priest.

Why thank you very much. I'm truly humbled. I can be, I admit, an a**hole sometimes, like everyone else

I also find your approach and comments on all subjects quite challenging and enjoyable to read. You'd be great to sit around and talk with over a couple of brews I think.

 

[sanctus]

Nothing at all. I took it myself also 800 decades ago, I was just surprised that anyone was still was familiar with it, but since you explained his vocation, it is fairly obvious he'd be familiar with Latin.

Does anybody remember when Latin was still a required course in High School? When I took Latin in grade 9 or 10 it was a required course, way back in the early 1970's....man, does that ever seem a long time ago!

 

[sanctus]

Oh goodness! Now I feel stupid. Almost as Catholic as the Pope, eh? Hmm, wonder how he'll handle this lazy Anglican? I mentioned already that I do attend Church, but would have to be honest and say that I am far from an ardent believer. .

Hmmm. well darleneonfire, I have sent the Swiss Guards from the Vatican to your house to arrest you, other than that you're fine!

Truth be told though, I rather admire people of strong faith, especially in this day and age. There is not exactly a great amount of support for such people anymore, so it must take a great deal of faith to still believe despite the best efforts of society to pull their faith apart.

And yet, judging by the general population, there is a great secular interest in "spirituality", which at least to me indicates people are searching.

 

[sanctus]

Why couldn't he just make us right the first time?

Yeah, I've been expecting that one. Every believer I've ever discussed these things with has made that claim eventually. I suspect you all have to believe that because you can't otherwise conceive how I could possibly be the good and decent person I claim to be. Possibly you wouldn't make the next claim, sanctus, but a lot of your fellow travellers do: despite god being in me and making me good without revealing his presence to me, because I did not have faith he's going to condemn me to Hell for eternity. .

I hate when some people do that, condemn others to Hell. I wouldn't dare presume to pass such judgements. In my mind, that's not my job, that's Gods! Anyway, how can anyone really know the content of someone else's heart?

Of course not, as a supposedly perfect being he could exist perfectly well with or without us, which makes me wonder why he bothered to create all this in the first place, knowing what a train wreck it'd be. There's a fundamental irrationality at the heart of religion. But he does demand certain other things of us, while at the same reminding us repeatedly of what awful sinners we are--or at least most of his appointed representatives do--and how we're never going to meet his expectations. That's a pretty lame way to sell the product.

You know, oddly enough, in day to day pastoral ministry, most of these sorts of topics rarely come up. One gets so busy attending to the awful amount of lonliness and hurt that is present that dogmatics and theology sort of take a back seat.To be totally honest, 99% of what I learned in Seminary is practically never referenced in actual ministry.

 

[sanctus]

No more than necessary, and I don't think you quite grasped the context of my remarks. It's not me that thinks people are so awful, it's the Christian church, and specifically people like sanctus, busily reminding us what sinners we are.
.

You know, I was pondering this comment of yours further. I hope I haven't given the impression that people are awful. I don't find that at all. What I do find is an incredible level of lonliness in most people, a deep emptiness that they fill with all sorts of stupid things only to end up feeling more lonely then when they began. It is very sad sometimes, especially since most of us are surrounded by people and still, there is this emptiness, this lonliness that so permeates so many peoples' souls.

 

[sanctus]

Under your understanding brother Sanctus, the Catholic Church is “the” Church by which the sole interpretation of the bible rests, and any other. Would not be, thus, the argument.

My understanding is that I am the church in this respect: If I trust and rely in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Master of my soul, and upon this rock, meaning faith in Him, Jesus, that upon that faith, He will build His church.

Not quite sufficient AJ. First off, you neglect history in your approach. However many Scriptural quotations you post, the fact remains that Christ established a physical Church(community) on the earth, long before the Canon of the Bible was established. Again, the Bible is the book of the Church. The Church therefore is the proper vehicle for truth, not the Bible alone.

“In spirit and in truth”,

meaning from your spirit’s heart. And there is where the “true” worship is, not in some man made building.

The “church” is made up of spiritual believers, not physical members of any organization.

Yes, and no. Christ also established a priesthood to administer the Sacraments, which are also required for salvation by the way, and to guard the truth. Have you ever stopped to consider how self-appointed people such as yourself are? In other words, just about all your theology is based on the eternal "I think", as if somehow that makes it right because you "think" it is right. (Yes, yes, I know, you also "Think" the Holy Spirit is telling you to abandon His Church )

f you are going to be a priest, then be a priest of the heart. There is where healing takes place

True, but I'm not "going to be", I already am. It is easy to sit by yourself and provide a thousand different Scripture "soundbytes" to justify your individual beliefs. But I submit to you that the real work of the Body of Christ, the Church, is to provide grounding to its membership and solace and comfort to the people of the world.. You'll no doubt be dismayed to read how little the Scriptures come into play in actual ministry to people.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

tify your individual beliefs. But I submit to you that the real work of the Body of Christ, the Church, is to provide grounding to its membership and solace and comfort to the people of the world.. You'll no doubt be dismayed to read how little the Scriptures come into play in actual ministry to people.

that surprises me. so you dont think you need the bible to help people? whats the point of it than?

 

[mapleleafgirl]

You know, I was pondering this comment of yours further. I hope I haven't given the impression that people are awful. I don't find that at all. What I do find is an incredible level of lonliness in most people, a deep emptiness that they fill with all sorts of stupid things only to end up feeling more lonely then when they began. It is very sad sometimes, especially since most of us are surrounded by people and still, there is this emptiness, this lonliness that so permeates so many peoples' souls.

thats very sad. i think youre right though. even in high school people are so lonely that they just wanna reach out to other people all the time, sometimes in strange ways. its like you are in a room full of people but nobody gets you, you know what i mean?

by the way, was offline for a few days cos i got grounded from the computer. i also have to admit i jumped my age up to 18 when actually im only going to be turning 17 tomorrow.sorry but i thought nobody would take me seriously if i wasnt eighteen. allot of old people totally ignore you if they think youre just a kid.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

Does anybody remember when Latin was still a required course in High School? When I took Latin in grade 9 or 10 it was a required course, way back in the early 1970's....man, does that ever seem a long time ago!

wowwwwwwwwwwww. that was a long time ago. so like you were alive when the beatles were still together, eh?

 

[selfactivated]

thats very sad. i think youre right though. even in high school people are so lonely that they just wanna reach out to other people all the time, sometimes in strange ways. its like you are in a room full of people but nobody gets you, you know what i mean?

by the way, was offline for a few days cos i got grounded from the computer. i also have to admit i jumped my age up to 18 when actually im only going to be turning 17 tomorrow.sorry but i thought nobody would take me seriously if i wasnt eighteen. allot of old people totally ignore you if they think youre just a kid.

Im glad you fessed up but I already pegged you as a Sophmore or a Junior, You said you were doing research for a paper Remember my youngest is 19 and I still remember subjects

 

[mapleleafgirl]

t somebody tell me this while I was alive on earth?[/FONT][/B] [/QUOTE]

aj, dude, i dont get what youre yacking about here? there was a good question though, like if the church was first, and the bible didnt get put out till later, are those first christians going to hell because they didnt have a bible?