How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

[Dexter Sinister]

Wicca is the product of an Englishman named Gerald Gardner...,

Ah, I'm surprised and pleased to see that somebody else knows that. I once had a terrible scrap with a dear friend of mine and her daughter (interestingly, they're Jews) on that very issue, after they'd both taken the same course at the local university on comparative religions. They were taught that Wicca is the surviving remnant of pre-Christian European religions, when the truth is that it's really New Age stuff and has no demonstrable connection with pre-Christian Europe. It draws inspiration from ancient Celtic and other practices, about which very little is known because the only written accounts we have are the demonizations by contemporary Roman and later Christian chroniclers. There is no continuity of tradition between contemporary Wicca and the pre-Christian, non-Christian, religions of Europe in the same sense that, for instance, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam can claim a continuity of tradition. Wicca is of recent origin, less than a century old, cobbled together from bits and pieces of older traditions, and we have no way of knowing how representative it truly is of them. It is not ancient, it merely pretends to be.

But that doesn't mean it's all nonsense.

 

[selfactivated]

Ah, I'm surprised and pleased to see that somebody else knows that. I once had a terrible scrap with a dear friend of mine and her daughter (interestingly, they're Jews) on that very issue, after they'd both taken the same course at the local university on comparative religions. They were taught that Wicca is the surviving remnant of pre-Christian European religions, when the truth is that it's really New Age stuff and has no demonstrable connection with pre-Christian Europe. It draws inspiration from ancient Celtic and other practices, about which very little is known because the only written accounts we have are the demonizations by contemporary Roman and later Christian chroniclers. There is no continuity of tradition between contemporary Wicca and the pre-Christian, non-Christian, religions of Europe in the same sense that, for instance, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam can claim a continuity of tradition. Wicca is of recent origin, less than a century old, cobbled together from bits and pieces of older traditions, and we have no way of knowing how representative it truly is of them. It is not ancient, it merely pretends to be.

But that doesn't mean it's all nonsense.

No I DO know that. Im under the tutalage of an English Priestess BELIEVE me I know the history. Im also reading Rae Beth amazing woman.

I just find it redundant to repeat that I AM Pagan and I take a great deal from many beliefs not one. But my comment stands christians stole pagan symbols.....to trick pagans into their belief system.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I stand in the true faith and the true Church. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Period.

Gawd, what arrogant, intemperate nonsense. Of all the churches and faiths and belief systems there have ever been, you've got a lock, the only possible lock, on the truth? I think you're deluding yourself.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

No I DO know that..

I wasn't suggesting you didn't dear. That's why I put in that final sentence, " But that doesn't mean it's all nonsense." As I've told you before, your beliefs make a lot more sense to me than Christianity. I don't share them, as you know, but if I had to choose (and I'm grateful that modern secular society doesn't require that of me), I'd come down on your side.

 

[selfactivated]

I wasn't suggesting you didn't dear. That's why I put in that final sentence, " But that doesn't mean it's all nonsense." As I've told you before, your beliefs make a lot more sense to me than Christianity. I don't share them, as you know, but if I had to choose (and I'm grateful that modern secular society doesn't require that of me), I'd come down on your side.

I just didnt want you to think I was ignorant in the fact ( I value your opinion). Id never force my beliefs on anyone especially a friend let alone a stranger........I call it a belief system because I dont follow one belief. Im very proud of my beliefs and how they mold me. I like who I am now. I found no happiness in their idea of god.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I just didnt want you to think I was ignorant in the fact

I will never think that. You've demonstrated repeatedly that you're very well informed about your beliefs.

I value your opinion

As I do yours. Your continued respect and affection mean much to me.

Id never force my beliefs on anyone

I know, it's a useful lesson some Christians should learn.

I found no happiness in their idea of god

Neither did I. Christianity I find to be cruel and arrogant and unreasonable, with a vicious ogre in charge.

 

[selfactivated]

I will never think that. You've demonstrated repeatedly that you're very well informed about your beliefs.
As I do yours. Your continued respect and affection mean much to me. I know, it's a useful lesson some Christians should learn] neither did I. Christianity I find to be cruel and arrogant.

In my opinion, what ever path you choose its YOUR path. If it makes you happy follow it. But like all of us are different so are our paths. The Pope follows a different path than the other priests would you tell him he couldnt? I wouldnt, its HIS path.

I found the program I was watching on the gnostic bible and its history.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/mmemergence.html

 

[L Gilbert]

Losing? Is it a battle?. I'm not in a battle.I stand in the true faith and the true Church. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Period.

True faith? Bilgewater.
Salvation? Bilgewater. For YOU there is no salvation outside the Catholic church. For others, there is no salvation outside Islam. For others, there's none outside Sikhism. For others, there's none outside Hinduism. And so on down the line. Every other faith is just as valid, if not more valid than your puppy of a religion.

Dex is dead right, arrogance and pride. Indeed the origin of the word "catholic" is Latin and means "universally accepted". I have news for ya, pilgrim, it isn't universally accepted; obviously.

 

[look3467]

You see brothers and sisters, how we wind up chasing rabbits.

God is a creator and He created flesh with a mind to have a choice.

If He says, lets create men after our own image, what suppose that means?

Two arms and two legs,eyes, ears, hair etc.?

Or do you suppose He created us to be like Him in attributes?

Flesh and blood house a spirit that is life to the body, with the ability to make choices.

The tree of knowledge of Good and evil is the learning tree for the body.

Upon partaking of that knowledge, good and evil now have a distinction of being opposites.

God intended it to be that way so as to give us the ability to experience both sides of the equation.

The consequences of that ability is "Separation" from God, or spiritually speaking "Death". Eternal death.
As a child, one knows nothing about good or evil until the age of accountability.

Upon recognizing that fact, (depending on the parents religious beliefs) the child would if thought what was at that time , the best information available it it as concerning the state of his soul.

I was raised for example, believing that if I didn't go to church on Sunday, that I would have committed a mortal sin.

This of course terrified me, because surely, I didn't want to go to hell.

The point of the story is, that God himself placed the conditions for mankind to endure as part of the learning experience that only could produce fruit, hopefully, of the good fruit kind.

The condition imposed on mankind for that purpose were too harsh.

Therefore, mankind sort of and in many cases, "blamed God" for such a terrible condition He placed us in.
This is where the "wrath of mankind comes into the picture. (Blaming God for no fault of our own, that we are here.

Like many of you have said things against God and His word that only confirm the wrath that is in you to deny God His due of a loving and wonderful Father.

Therefore, God Himself provided a "body" for His Spirit to poses and called His name Jesus, or Yahshua, meaning "The Father Salvation".

This Jesus then would and did perform to Gods own standards and complied with all of them to a "T" for the benefit of all mankind.

So, folks, here is where mankind's wrath comes in as a show of it's anger towards God, by beating to a pulp Gods Son.

By this act, then God provides us all with forgiveness, because in our anger, we didn't know what we were and are doing.

For if we knew Gods intentions for us, and how He loved us so, we would have welcomed His Son with open arms, instead of crucifying Him.

Suffering is a part of learning. It is a given. Some more than others, but yet all are granted saving gratis, by the sacrifice of Jesus.

Because many do not understand, it is forgiven. But beware, for this world is no friend of the flesh!

What ever ye sow, that shall ye reap, tooth for tooth, eye for eye.

Like I said, without God, we are at our own pearl.

Yes, you can live without God, but you will not experience the love that God has for you, only what love mankind can give, and that is not saying anything good.

So, there it is, if you can try to understand it.

So, it's up to each individual, what course to take> I've taken to believe in God and His love, and I have had one blessing after another.

And I hope you do to.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[L Gilbert]

More bilge. Sorry, Look. Man created your god in his own image. Each and every characteristic of man can be found attributed to your god in the holEy bible. There is evidence of man's existence and no evidence of some god's existence. Logically, therefore, your god is an invention of what does exist.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

what ever path you choose its YOUR path. If it makes you happy follow it.

Exactly right. But (and I'm sure you'll agree with this) don't try to force it on anyone else, that's arrogant, stupid, and ultimately a losing proposition. Christianity and Islam are fundamentally wrong to try to force themselves on others. I have many deep disagreements with all religions and belief systems I've ever encountered, and I'll freely tell people when I think they're wrong or deluded or misguided or being stupid, and I'll tell them why, but I'll never try to force anybody to agree with me or persecute them for not agreeing. I might be wrong. Obviously I don't believe I am, but in response to a reasoned argument I'll always consider the possibility that I might be. Dogmatic and intolerant declarations of belief, as m_levesque posted above, will always draw my ire. Nobody's entitled to make such claims.

 

[selfactivated]

Oh my dearest AJ I love that your so passionate about your path and your post was truely eloquant........heres the but......I dont buy it.........I just cant see it the way you do. I am so glad you are passionate about your path as I am about mine. I find such Love in my belief yet I know its not for everyone. And thats glorious too

 

[look3467]

True faith? Bilgewater.
Salvation? Bilgewater. For YOU there is no salvation outside the Catholic church. For others, there is no salvation outside Islam. For others, there's none outside Sikhism. For others, there's none outside Hinduism. And so on down the line. Every other faith is just as valid, if not more valid than your puppy of a religion.

Dex is dead right, arrogance and pride. Indeed the origin of the word "catholic" is Latin and means "universally accepted". I have news for ya, pilgrim, it isn't universally accepted; obviously.

So........ you suppose that if everybody took God out of the equation, this world would be nothing but a big hug fast?

Well, that only shows how much of the human nature you understand it to be.

Left alone, Humanity would annihilate itself! Is that what you prefer?

The salt of the earth gives the earth flavor. The Godly ones, are the salt.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[look3467]

Oh my dearest AJ I love that your so passionate about your path and your post was truely eloquant........heres the but......I dont buy it.........I just cant see it the way you do. I am so glad you are passionate about your path as I am about mine. I find such Love in my belief yet I know its not for everyone. And thats glorious too

That's OK, Tam, I can only tell it the way I see it, and so,............ oh well. But there are some seeking, and to those I lend and ear and give then an ear ful. All in love, of course.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[selfactivated]

Exactly right. But (and I'm sure you'll agree with this) don't try to force it on anyone else, that's arrogant, stupid, and ultimately a losing proposition. Christianity and Islam are fundamentally wrong to try to force themselves on others. I have many deep disagreements with all religions and belief systems I've ever encountered, and I'll freely tell people when I think they're wrong or deluded or misguided or being stupid, and I'll tell them why, but I'll never try to force anybody to agree with me or persecute them for not agreeing. I might be wrong. Obviously I don't believe I am, but in response to a reasoned argument I'll always consider the possibility that I might be. Dogmatic and intolerant declarations of belief, as m_levesque posted above, will always draw my ire. Nobody's entitled to make such claims.

Obviously I agree.....yell at me I'll close my ears but open a dialog I'll listen. Not nessacarily agree but I'll have learned something about what makes you tick. Acceptance......tolerance.......education.

 

[selfactivated]

That's OK, Tam, I can only tell it the way I see it, and so,............ oh well. But there are some seeking, and to those I lend and ear and give then an ear ful. All in love, of course.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

I always listen AJ because I value you as a person.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Yes, you can live without God, but you will not experience the love that God has for you, only what love mankind can give, and that is not saying anything good.

The love of our fellow man is not good? What the Hell are you saying? I find it very good, and in fact it's the only comfort I have and the only one that makes any sense to me. I've lived without god for over 30 years since my apostasy, and made a pretty good job of it. I'm one of the happiest and most contented people I know and no god had anything to do with it, as far as I can tell. I have not a clue what the love of god means. I know of no good reason to think he even exists, and plenty of reasons to think he doesn't.

 

[L Gilbert]

So........ you suppose that if everybody took God out of the equation, this world would be nothing but a big hug fast?

Well, that only shows how much of the human nature you understand it to be.

Left alone, Humanity would annihilate itself! Is that what you prefer?

The salt of the earth gives the earth flavor. The Godly ones, are the salt.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

Please don't do my supposing for me. If man hadn't invented Yahweh, he would have invented Fred, or Susan, or something else, or simply adopted one of the other faiths.

 

[selfactivated]

As much as I Love yalls company I need to do some needle work before bed to wind down my silly mind You ALL are beautiful and unique beings, appreciate each others uniqueness. Even my strange arse Night Yall

 

[Dexter Sinister]

. Even my strange arse

I think I'd love your "strange arse." If I ever saw it. I'm a staunch backside man. Boobs are great too. Like you didn't know that... ;-) In fact, the entire female body is one of the noblest works of nature, even if you don't look like Angelina Jolie. And who does? I'm not even sure Angelina Jolie looks like Angelina Jolie.