How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

[hermanntrude]

so God's word comes in either four or 34 different versions, chosen by man, mostly deleted by man, translated, trascribed, argued over, and written with historical context causing bias and distortion. you see?

If it were God's word, a)you'd expect humans to do better by it and b) you'd expect Him to dictate more carefully

 

[selfactivated]

so God's word comes in either four or 34 different versions, chosen by man, mostly deleted by man, translated, trascribed, argued over, and written with historical context causing bias and distortion. you see?

If it were God's word, a)you'd expect humans to do better by it and b) you'd expect Him to dictate more carefully

No I didnt say that.....couldnt if I tried. Im just laying out some facts and history about the bible. In MY way of belief we have no written words. Just heart.

 

[look3467]

so God's word comes in either four or 34 different versions, chosen by man, mostly deleted by man, translated, trascribed, argued over, and written with historical context causing bias and distortion. you see?

If it were God's word, a)you'd expect humans to do better by it and b) you'd expect Him to dictate more carefully

But it is God's word, using human frailties, or vessels to communicate them to us.

I have to give you this example my dad once told me. He said, what if I wanted to communicate with the ants, how would I do it? I don't know, I said.

He answered, very simple, become one.

God Himself became one like us, with all the human frailties, but conquered them all for us, He being God.

All the other prophets, either warned, or prophesied about the coming one. The Messiah.

But He, Jesus is God incarnate, reconciling the world back to Himself, that which was lost in the process of creating of the flesh.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[darleneonfire]

Good Afternoon. Just Had To See What Had Over 1,000 Replies! I'm Brand Spanking New. Would Anyone Mind If I Jump Into This Conversation?

Darlene

 

[hermanntrude]

of course not. but if you say anything dumb people will shoot you down with words

I still think if God wanted to get His word across he could do a lot better than the bible.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Boy there’s a lot of nonsense in this thread. From the original post:

We must understand that the only reason why Christ died for us is because His goodness makes up for the evil in us. We have offended God starting with Adam...

Right, like that all-knowing, all-powerful god didn’t know from the outset exactly what would happen. Looks like a setup to me.

... to the last man, and the offence is of infinite value because it is done not to something finite but to God who is Almighty and Infinite in all His perfections. So the offence had to be paid with coin of infinite value which is Christ Our Lord.

What kind of bankrupt ethical philosophy is that condemns every child before it’s even born to inherit the original sin of a distant ancestor and lay the burden of punishment on all of them, condemned to painful labour in the fields and in childbirth for males and females respectively, as the book says? That’s almost as obnoxious as Abraham setting out to barbecue his son Isaac at the lord’s command. Several thousand years later–if you believe the Biblical genealogies--it gets suddenly worse. God incarnates himself as a man in order to have himself tortured and executed in atonement for this hereditary sin, and ever since he’s been celebrated as the redeemer, not just for that sin, but for all sins, past, present, and future. Atonement for that original hereditary sin has become one of the central doctrines of New Testament theology. Christianity’s central thesis is all about sin. As Richard Dawkins remarks, “What a nasty little preoccupation to have dominating your life.”

Any modern ethicist will confirm that the retribution theory of punishment doesn’t work. I find the scapegoat aspects of this particular story, executing an innocent to pay for the sins of others, to be ethically indefensible. If god wanted to forgive human sins, why not just forgive them instead of having himself tortured and executed in payment? The story makes no sense. Who was he trying to impress?

And finally, Adam and Eve are certainly fictitious characters, and their story is only intended to be symbolic (except to those lamebrains who think it's all literally true). So, in a dramatic story intended to impress.... well, I’m not sure who it’s intended to impress...God incarnates himself as a man, has himself tortured and executed in punishment for a symbolic error committed by fictional characters... Madness. It’s also vicious, sado-masochist, and thoroughly repugnant.

If anybody really wants to know what led me to my apostasy and ultimately to the atheist position, that's the root of it: the savage, mean-spirited, vindictive, blood-thirsty ogre I perceive at the heart of Christianity.

 

[darleneonfire]

of course not. but if you say anything dumb people will shoot you down with words

I still think if God wanted to get His word across he could do a lot better than the bible.

GREAT. I WANT TO TAKE TIME AND READ MORE BEFORE OPENING MY MOUTH. DON'T WANT TO OFFEND PEOPLE. I AM A CHURCH-GOER BUT NOT TERRIBLY RELIGIOUS SO I MIGHT OFFEND SOME PEOPLE. I ACTUALLY THINK I GO TO CHURCH OUT OF HABIT MORE THEN ANYTHING ELSE, AND FOR THE KIDS(I HAVE FOUR TEENAGERS-ALL BOYS 12, 14, 16 AND 17 YEARS OLD)

 

[hermanntrude]

what's with the caps darlene? there's no need to shout.

so what's your view? is the bible the Word of God or a bunch of stories or a conspiracy to destroy canada?

 

[darleneonfire]

what's with the caps darlene? there's no need to shout.

so what's your view? is the bible the Word of God or a bunch of stories or a conspiracy to destroy canada?

SORRY, I ALWAYS WRITE IN CAP'S ON BECAUSE IT'S EASIER FOR ME TO READ WHEN I DON'T HAVE MY GLASSES ON. HOPE IT'S OKAY!

I'LL WAIT A BIT TO JUMP IN WITH MY VIEW, LIKE I SAID, I DON'T WANT TO OFFEND PEOPLE....YET

 

[Dexter Sinister]

DON'T WANT TO OFFEND PEOPLE.

Some people deserve to be offended, and if they are that's their problem anyway. Unless you plan to engage in gratuitous insults, which I wouldn't expect based on your few words so far, don't worry about it.

 

[darleneonfire]

Some people deserve to be offended, and if they are that's their problem anyway. Unless you plan to engage in gratuitous insults, which I wouldn't expect based on your few words so far, don't worry about it.

Okay. (I just gave in and put my glasses on). Thank you. As I wrote, I do attend Church. I'm an Anglican. We belong to the Anglican Catholic Church which is a breakaway Church from the mainline Anglican Communion.

Anyway, I was asked about the Bible. In and of itself, I think its a good book. It's lessons and messages are timeless and it certainly dosen't hurt anyone to read it.

I don't take it that seriously though. Maybe I should, but I don't. I try to live by its basic teachings. And I try to get my boys to live by the general message. We raised the boys in the Church because I don't believe it is harmful to give kids a sense of community and religious values.

My eldest two don't go that much anymore and I'm okay with that. Bothers the heck out of my husband though as he is very much a participant in our parish comunity. I help out in the bake sales and I do contribute to our annual bazaar, but beyond that it is just someting to do Sunday morning.

Sometimes I wish more people would apply the Bible lessons to the way they treat each other, but one thing I do strongly dislike is super religious people quoting it all the time to justify their rudeness to people who don't agree with them. And in my opinion, it is rude to force your personal religious views upon others unless they request you to do so. Anyways, I'm more interested in hearing about the personal side of people. I can read the Bible myself if I want to, I don't need it shoved in my face, thank you very much.

I hope that has not offended any of you

And p.s., here's something that may strike some of you as funny, my brother is an Anglican priest so you'd think I'd be more serious about it--hah hah

 

[hermanntrude]

so it's not the word of God? just a chinese whisper of the teachings of jesus?

 

[selfactivated]

Okay. (I just gave in and put my glasses on). Thank you. As I wrote, I do attend Church. I'm an Anglican. We belong to the Anglican Catholic Church which is a breakaway Church from the mainline Anglican Communion.

Anyway, I was asked about the Bible. In and of itself, I think its a good book. It's lessons and messages are timeless and it certainly dosen't hurt anyone to read it.

I don't take it that seriously though. Maybe I should, but I don't. I try to live by its basic teachings. And I try to get my boys to live by the general message. We raised the boys in the Church because I don't believe it is harmful to give kids a sense of community and religious values.

My eldest two don't go that much anymore and I'm okay with that. Bothers the heck out of my husband though as he is very much a participant in our parish comunity. I help out in the bake sales and I do contribute to our annual bazaar, but beyond that it is just someting to do Sunday morning.

Sometimes I wish more people would apply the Bible lessons to the way they treat each other, but one thing I do strongly dislike is super religious people quoting it all the time to justify their rudeness to people who don't agree with them. And in my opinion, it is rude to force your personal religious views upon others unless they request you to do so. Anyways, I'm more interested in hearing about the personal side of people. I can read the Bible myself if I want to, I don't need it shoved in my face, thank you very much.

I hope that has not offended any of you

And p.s., here's something that may strike some of you as funny, my brother is an Anglican priest so you'd think I'd be more serious about it--hah hah

First off you cant offend anyone here anymore than I have LOL so just speak your truth and you'll be fine. My Sis is a roman Catholic CCD teacher and Im Pagan LOL so I get ya there. The point I was trying to make to maple was that the bible has a history of its own and in my opinion its skewed. BUT I treat it as a piece of literature that teaches those who read it many lessons. Its up to you as the reader what you descern from it.

 

[selfactivated]

so it's not the word of God? just a chinese whisper of the teachings of jesus?

pretty much.........just like the story tellers of the tribes and the books of shadows of the Wiccans. The lated not having a written language.

 

[L Gilbert]

Hmmmmmmmm. 62 pages of trying to figger out how not to sin. Astounding.

 

[darleneonfire]

so it's not the word of God? just a chinese whisper of the teachings of jesus?

Well, I do believe in God after my own fashion, so I guess it's his word. But some of his people need to get their eyes off of it once in a blue moon and see the world around them. I think it's a good book, certainly not harmful in and of itself, but some super religious people I know put just a wee bit too much emphasis on its words for my taste. Sorry for rambling, yes, I guess it's the word of God. But when you think about it though, did he want us to spend all our time reading it? I would say no. How the heck can I help or relate to other people if my nose is stuck in a Bible anyway?

Plus, what's the point of going to Church if they don't teach the Bible on Sunday? No way I should have to have my nose stuck in is pages all the time.Does that make sense?

 

[hermanntrude]

i know how not to sin. this, like all good topics, is way off topic. we're just jabbering really eh

 

[darleneonfire]

First off you cant offend anyone here anymore than I have LOL so just speak your truth and you'll be fine. My Sis is a roman Catholic CCD teacher and Im Pagan LOL so I get ya there. The point I was trying to make to maple was that the bible has a history of its own and in my opinion its skewed. BUT I treat it as a piece of literature that teaches those who read it many lessons. Its up to you as the reader what you descern from it.

Yup, you've got me beat in that department! Can I ask you what exactly being a pagan is? Is it also referred to as Wiccan?

I personally think there are great truths to be learned in the Bible, but like I wrote earlier, it shouldn't be pushed down peoples throats. My husband has a co-worker who calls himself a Christian. I dislike being around him, to be honest with you, because every second word out of his mouth is some quote from the Bible. Gets a bit irritating sometimes. I know he means well, but truly some of them should close their Bibles and deal with the people around them more often, in my opinion.

 

[darleneonfire]

Fr. C. G. Vaillancourt
Have Mercy on me a sinner [Luke 18:10-14]
There were two men who came to the temple, one was justifying himself saying Lord thank you for making me a good man, I pay my taxes to the Church, I give alms, I study the Law of the prophets, I am really good, but that man on the corner is a publican, he truly is a sinner, I am happy that I am not like Him. In the mean time the other man was beating his breast saying: Lord have mercy on me, I am a sinner.
Jesus said that the second man went home justified because he accepted that He was a sinner.

I like ths story very much. I remember it from the Bible. I think it points out the differences between those who really are living their faith from those hypocrites that are always talking about their faith. There is, I think, a big difference.It's sort of what I was saying about people who are always talking Bible quotes at everyone compared to people who are, if you'll excuse the phrase, living the Bible.

 

[selfactivated]

Yup, you've got me beat in that department! Can I ask you what exactly being a pagan is? Is it also referred to as Wiccan?

I personally think there are great truths to be learned in the Bible, but like I wrote earlier, it shouldn't be pushed down peoples throats. My husband has a co-worker who calls himself a Christian. I dislike being around him, to be honest with you, because every second word out of his mouth is some quote from the Bible. Gets a bit irritating sometimes. I know he means well, but truly some of them should close their Bibles and deal with the people around them more often, in my opinion.

Paganism is a catch all phrase for dozens of belief systems that are non- christian. I personally pactice solatary Wiccan and Shamanism. I have earth based beliefs.