An Interesting take on WW2 A-bombs

[Zzarchov]

Another graver concern might be the fact that Japan had its own nuclear project, and a quite advanced one.

It was believed, and reported in Major US newspapers that after America had nuked Japan (but before surrender) they detonated their own bombs.

It is known Japan had two Nuclear projects (IJA and IJN), one was destroyed (and was enriching uranium before that) and the other one was fully functioning in Manchuria. At the Time of V-E day the Nazi's were shipping Uranium by Submarine to Japan, it surrendered in India.

This really did panic the Allied powers. Unfortunately we'll never know if they actually detonated a bomb beyond the testimonies of those involved since Stalin over-ran Manchuria and stripped the facilities bare (being very interested in atomic weaponry himself).

But we do know they had the know-how, resources and facilities to build a bomb, and from what was recovered of their Tokyo based project they could have built a bomb there had they not been bombed.

This is all a matter of record.

So while its easy to look back 60 years and say "The USA didn't need to nuke" At the time they faced a suicidal enemy, potentially nuclear armed with highly advanced submarines cruising all over the place, a submerisible mini-aircraft carrier was well on the way to bomb the eastern side of the Panama Canal when the war ended.

Academics always like to go back and critisize and demonize the Victors, It makes them feel like they are going against the grain that "victors write the history books" and that they are some great bastions of truth exhonerating the under-dog.

Sometimes bad things happen to bad people.

 

[#juan]

Another graver concern might be the fact that Japan had its own nuclear project, and a quite advanced one.

It was believed, and reported in Major US newspapers that after America had nuked Japan (but before surrender) they detonated their own bombs.

It is known Japan had two Nuclear projects (IJA and IJN), one was destroyed (and was enriching uranium before that) and the other one was fully functioning in Manchuria. At the Time of V-E day the Nazi's were shipping Uranium by Submarine to Japan, it surrendered in India.

This really did panic the Allied powers. Unfortunately we'll never know if they actually detonated a bomb beyond the testimonies of those involved since Stalin over-ran Manchuria and stripped the facilities bare (being very interested in atomic weaponry himself).

But we do know they had the know-how, resources and facilities to build a bomb, and from what was recovered of their Tokyo based project they could have built a bomb there had they not been bombed.

This is all a matter of record.

So while its easy to look back 60 years and say "The USA didn't need to nuke" At the time they faced a suicidal enemy, potentially nuclear armed with highly advanced submarines cruising all over the place, a submerisible mini-aircraft carrier was well on the way to bomb the eastern side of the Panama Canal when the war ended.

Academics always like to go back and critisize and demonize the Victors, It makes them feel like they are going against the grain that "victors write the history books" and that they are some great bastions of truth exhonerating the under-dog.

Sometimes bad things happen to bad people.

I don't believe the Japanese were even close to having an atom bomb. If by some unlikely chance they were able to put together a prototype, what bloody good would it have done them? The bomb would have been unGodly heavy and they would have had no way to deliver it. In any case they didn't have a bomb so it's a moot point. Russia may have stolen Japan's entire nuclear research facilities in 1945 but it took the Rosenburgs to get Russia the capability to build the bomb in 1949

 

[CDNBear]

I do name calling on poeples who deserved it, like you , ITN, Colpy, ASSylassie, you guys are a total disgrace to human race, Also,don't be hypocryte on it, you do call peoples names, and by judging your anti-quebecois and anti-arab stance, is just a normal behavior from anglophone retards like you are.


Yes i love quebec, and their peoples, they smiles, they are greath and they are smart, i wish one day , i will have my quebec citizen ship.

You may notice, that I do not use the tone and continued name calling you do. Not to mention I have been known to apologise if need be, like when proved wrong.

I've proved you wrong more then once on issues of Quebec, all you do is dissappear.

I am not anti Quebecois, I'm anti Quebecuois, I am not anti Arab either. I'm anti Islamic fundamentalist extremist. To quote you, "get it staight, once and for all".

This thread has been an extremely interesting thread to read. I do not have all the facts on the issue, so instead of jump in and belch out stupidity, like yourself. I am reading along, enjoying the intellectual banter from all perspectives. If and when I come to a conclussion on who is right or wrong, I may intergect. I doubt I will, both sides are presenting excellent arguements, except for you. Your contibution, for lack of a better word, is nothing more then your political views, wrapped in nonsense and spat upon the screen. I wish windex worked on your posts as well as it works on the coffee I spew on my screen in laughter, as I read your latest bit of vomitted tripe.

 

[Zzarchov]

Well even though you think they weren't close to a bomb.

They were, THAT is a matter of fact. Seriously, look it up.


What is up for debate is if they detonated one or not, as for what good it would do? Japan had planned to deliver it by Submarine, on a one way trip. And seeing as they were able to send subs the LONG way to attack the east of the Panama Canal, that was completely within their ability.

Side Note: The other Danger was Unit 731's dangerous Bio weapons research combined with operation Fu-go I believe was the name, which resulted with conventional explosives with the only mainland US casualties.

There was big fear that this was a test to see if the method could deliver biological agents.

 

[CDNBear]

I don't believe the Japanese were even close to having an atom bomb. If by some unlikely chance they were able to put together a prototype, what bloody good would it have done them? The bomb would have been unGodly heavy and they would have had no way to deliver it. In any case they didn't have a bomb so it's a moot point. Russia may have stolen Japan's entire nuclear research facilities in 1945 but it took the Rosenburgs to get Russia the capability to build the bomb in 1949

The Japanese were quite skilled at septerfuge Juan, perhaps the US did not have the entire story and were acting pre-emptively?

 

[I think not]

The Japanese have apologized to the Chinese and the Koreans, and to the United States for failing to break off diplomatic relations before attacking Pearl Harbor.

The Japanese have apologized? The Japanese have wiped their history clean of any wrongdoings....period. The new Japanese generation is oblivious to the atrocities committed under Tojo's butchers. Hiroshima was a key military and industrial complex for unleashing the Asian holocaust.

What a load of crap! Stop reading crap #juan and do some research that doesn't favor your bias. These people who write this crap are revisionist historians with a political ax to grind.

The Japanese were well ahead in their atomic research, it is a historical fact.

Read: Japan's Secret War: Japan's Race Against Time to Build Its Own Atomic Bomb

This book is fully documented. Historical records are cited as well as personal interviews.

 

[#juan]

The Japanese have apologized? The Japanese have wiped their history clean of any wrongdoings....period. The new Japanese generation is oblivious to the atrocities committed under Tojo's butchers. Hiroshima was a key military and industrial complex for unleashing the Asian holocaust.

What a load of crap! Stop reading crap #juan and do some research that doesn't favor your bias. These people who write this crap are revisionist historians with a political ax to grind.

The Japanese were well ahead in their atomic research, it is a historical fact.

Read: Japan's Secret War: Japan's Race Against Time to Build Its Own Atomic Bomb

This book is fully documented. Historical records are cited as well as personal interviews.

I think it is time you did some reading that wasn't gathered while looking through a toilet paper roll. Most of the top American military commanders, Eisenhower, Leahy, and others dissagreed with using atomic weapons. The bombs were a demonstration for the Russian, nothing more.

http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm

 

[Zzarchov]

That and a wish not to go through with Olympic, And due to the leak of Japans defense plan, with the translated name "90 Million Dead".

"ooh, America won.. Japan whistled and smiled and deserved nothing it got"

It still wont apologize to living comfort women slaves. It was a war.

When two people reach for their guns and one gets off a shot first, you can't pretend it did the wrong thing. No one blames Hans for shooting Greedo.

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

Great post cdn_dc_ca.

thanks for reading it!

 

[I think not]

I think it is time you did some reading that wasn't gathered while looking through a toilet paper roll. Most of the top American military commanders, Eisenhower, Leahy, and others dissagreed with using atomic weapons. The bombs were a demonstration for the Russian, nothing more.

http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm

See #juan with revisionists it doesn't matter if you throw tons of documents at them, they will still play the same song, albeit perhaps a different pitch.

Can YOU answer why it took TWO bombs for Japan's surrender?

Can YOU answer why the Cairo Declaration, and then later the Potsdam Declaration was rejected by Imperial Japan?

Can YOU answer why after the TWO bombings, Imperial Japan accepted the Potsdam Declaration (exactly as it was offered on July 26th 1945, and the only added clause was to maintain the Imperial family (which by the way the allies accepted)?

Can you answer these simple questions #juan? Or will you continue to feed everybody "historical internet data"?

No, you cannot, because the revisionists RUN AWAY from those questions. In other words you won't find a revisionist to speak for you.

 

[#juan]

See #juan with revisionists it doesn't matter if you throw tons of documents at them, they will still play the same song, albeit perhaps a different pitch.

Can YOU answer why it took TWO bombs for Japan's surrender?

Can YOU answer why the Cairo Declaration, and then later the Potsdam Declaration was rejected by Imperial Japan?

Can YOU answer why after the TWO bombings, Imperial Japan accepted the Potsdam Declaration (exactly as it was offered on July 26th 1945, and the only added clause was to maintain the Imperial family (which by the way the allies accepted)?

Can you answer these simple questions #juan? Or will you continue to feed everybody "historical internet data"?

No, you cannot, because the revisionists RUN AWAY from those questions. In other words you won't find a revisionist to speak for you.

I.T.N

Have a Merry Christmas and all the best in the new year...

 

[Logic 7]

You may notice, that I do not use the tone and continued name calling you do. Not to mention I have been known to apologise if need be, like when proved wrong.

I've proved you wrong more then once on issues of Quebec, all you do is dissappear.

I am not anti Quebecois, I'm anti Quebecuois, I am not anti Arab either. I'm anti Islamic fundamentalist extremist. To quote you, "get it staight, once and for all".

This thread has been an extremely interesting thread to read. I do not have all the facts on the issue, so instead of jump in and belch out stupidity, like yourself. I am reading along, enjoying the intellectual banter from all perspectives. If and when I come to a conclussion on who is right or wrong, I may intergect. I doubt I will, both sides are presenting excellent arguements, except for you. Your contibution, for lack of a better word, is nothing more then your political views, wrapped in nonsense and spat upon the screen. I wish windex worked on your posts as well as it works on the coffee I spew on my screen in laughter, as I read your latest bit of vomitted tripe.

YOu have proved nothing at all on quebec, you try to proved that bill 101 denied rights of 8% of the population , but it doesnt , not even close, get real.

 

[Logic 7]

See #juan with revisionists it doesn't matter if you throw tons of documents at them, they will still play the same song, albeit perhaps a different pitch.

Can YOU answer why it took TWO bombs for Japan's surrender?

Can YOU answer why the Cairo Declaration, and then later the Potsdam Declaration was rejected by Imperial Japan?

Can YOU answer why after the TWO bombings, Imperial Japan accepted the Potsdam Declaration (exactly as it was offered on July 26th 1945, and the only added clause was to maintain the Imperial family (which by the way the allies accepted)?

Can you answer these simple questions #juan? Or will you continue to feed everybody "historical internet data"?

No, you cannot, because the revisionists RUN AWAY from those questions. In other words you won't find a revisionist to speak for you.

Justifiying the drops of nuclear bomb, is the definition of being a barbarian, there is no way you can justified it.

 

[Zzarchov]

Justifiying the drops of nuclear bomb, is the definition of being a barbarian, there is no way you can justified it.

Im afraid you are just daft then.


1.) The military commanders are not the experts on whether to drop bombs on Japan. They are not lords of America. They know about their army. They don't know about Japans Nuclear Project, they wouldn't know about covert actions (such as spies) they wouldn't even know about their own bombs until it concerned them directly. The need to know basis.

2.) Japan had the potential to have a nuclear bomb, either at the time or within a 6 month to a year time frame. That is fact. I repeat, FACT. Wishing they didn't and they could be a tragic victim does not make it so.

3.) What do you think normal bombs do to people? Tickle them to death with flowers and cinnimon buns? Conventional Bombing Runs did more damage than a Nuclear Attack.

Do you have any Idea how much damage Firebombing Tokyo did? Hundreds of thousands dead each bombing run. An Atomic bombing was less deadly than conventional bombing (given the amount of bombs that could be made and dropped in the same period as making and dropping 1 nuke, by a factor of several thousand)

Its almost as bad as the Rape of Nanjing, the damage in Shangai and the "Kill all, Burn all, Destroy All" Policy Imperial Japan was running in China to the last minute.

But Chinese people don't deserve to be saved I guess. America is "Teh 3vil" and Japan an Angel crushed by Tyranny.



Killing people is killing people, be it by setting them on fire and killing them from a Nuclear shockwave. Dead is Dead. And the Nuke really did mean that less people died.

 

[jimmoyer]

A leader never has complete information, especially one documented beyond all doubt and
contradiction.

After the fact, situation looks clear as a bell.

 

[CDNBear]

After following the links and reading the opinions posted by all sides, I have changed my views on the use of the bombs on Japan.

I was of the school of thought, that it was NOT necessary, and was a test or show of strength. But since, with the proof offered by those with a better grasp of the history behind it. It is evident that, a) As regrettable as it was, it was necessary to force Japan to yeild. b) It was not a popular action among the powers that be in the US. Which is likely why it has been revisited on many an occassion, with much heated debate.

But in the end, the debate is surely leaning in favour of those that have stated that the act was in fact a necessaty. Their evidence, has more fact and accuracy then the opposing side, which seemed to provide more conjecture and opinion, then hard evidence.

 

[Logic 7]

Im afraid you are just daft then.


1.) The military commanders are not the experts on whether to drop bombs on Japan. They are not lords of America. They know about their army. They don't know about Japans Nuclear Project, they wouldn't know about covert actions (such as spies) they wouldn't even know about their own bombs until it concerned them directly. The need to know basis.

2.) Japan had the potential to have a nuclear bomb, either at the time or within a 6 month to a year time frame. That is fact. I repeat, FACT. Wishing they didn't and they could be a tragic victim does not make it so.

3.) What do you think normal bombs do to people? Tickle them to death with flowers and cinnimon buns? Conventional Bombing Runs did more damage than a Nuclear Attack.

Do you have any Idea how much damage Firebombing Tokyo did? Hundreds of thousands dead each bombing run. An Atomic bombing was less deadly than conventional bombing (given the amount of bombs that could be made and dropped in the same period as making and dropping 1 nuke, by a factor of several thousand)

Its almost as bad as the Rape of Nanjing, the damage in Shangai and the "Kill all, Burn all, Destroy All" Policy Imperial Japan was running in China to the last minute.

But Chinese people don't deserve to be saved I guess. America is "Teh 3vil" and Japan an Angel crushed by Tyranny.



Killing people is killing people, be it by setting them on fire and killing them from a Nuclear shockwave. Dead is Dead. And the Nuke really did mean that less people died.

Hey mr ignorant, if you think nuclear warhead does the same as a normal attack, then don't talk to me anymore, i won't waste anymore with retards like you are.

 

[EagleSmack]

Again. It wasn't the A-bombs that ended the war. It was the act of the Americans agreeing to let the Japanese keep their Emperor and the Emperor system. Once that was agreed to, the war was over. We have already established that Hiroshima and Nagasaki could have been subjected to worse damage by fire bombing the way Tokyo was.

Nice try. The Japanese accepted surrender Unconditionally and THEN the Americans allowed their Emperor to stay in place. The surrender documents are clear and concise and MacArthur stood there on the mic and told the Japanese dignataries to sign the "UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER". Just because we were merciful to the Japanese AFTER the war and agreed to some of their requests AFTER the surrender doesn't mean it was a conditional surrender.

It was ONLY AFTER the second bomb that the Emperor decided enough is enough and he said that his position is not worth the continuous suffereing of the country. Against the opposition of some of his cabinet he made his decision and ordered them to accept the terms of UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER. This is from the transcripts of the Imperial Archives.

Read "Japan's Last Days" and learn something instead of ANOTHER socialist anti-USA revisionist rants.

 

[EagleSmack]

The Japanese have apologized? The Japanese have wiped their history clean of any wrongdoings....period. The new Japanese generation is oblivious to the atrocities committed under Tojo's butchers. Hiroshima was a key military and industrial complex for unleashing the Asian holocaust.

What a load of crap! Stop reading crap #juan and do some research that doesn't favor your bias. These people who write this crap are revisionist historians with a political ax to grind.

The Japanese were well ahead in their atomic research, it is a historical fact.

Read: Japan's Secret War: Japan's Race Against Time to Build Its Own Atomic Bomb

This book is fully documented. Historical records are cited as well as personal interviews.

Documents, archives, interviews, records... FACTS... don't be silly ITN. They don't need something as foolish as facts... they have socialist, anti-US writers. Who needs facts?!

 

[MikeyDB]

In Colpy's humble opinion, everyone should die that doesn't see the world through the same lens as Colpy..

Colpy doesn't consider peace and the exhaustion of every effort to secure even a temporary peace short of bombs bullets and mayhem as a particularly worthwhile endeavor.

Colpy probably still has a bumper sticker saying "Kill em all...let god sort them out..."

A real pinnacle of evolved human consciousness this Colpy....NOT