Exactly. Where do you think the Burka came from in Muslim religion. They took it from the Catholic sect of Christianity.
Veiled teacher is facing the sack.
- Thread starter Blackleaf
- Start date
The nude beach analogy isn't a fair comparison. People chose to go to a nude beach. People must work and travel.
A better analogy would be requiring people to work and travel naked. Likely some of us would feel uncomfortable if we were forced to work and travel naked.
A better analogy would be requiring people to work and travel naked. Likely some of us would feel uncomfortable if we were forced to work and travel naked.
Just another Example
This is clearlyt another example of the failure of an ingrained islamic belief to adapt to a world of circumstances beyond their control. It is clear that I could blindling or religiously follows some standard that I belive is relevant to my beliefs but when such standards affect my ability to interact and participate in my community at large they are irrelevant. Beliefs such as a veil are relevant only within the cultural context to which they were formed and as such this teacher is in another world where such requirements are irrelevant. So why do you cling to beliefs that are no longer relavent to your direct environment unless you plan to create a middle east inside a western country. Maybe this is the plan? Is a failure to change beliefs a failure of islam to adapt to western environments or does islam have no intent on adapting rather forcing their views upon everyone else. The veil issue is a clear failure of muslims to take a look at their environment and change their beliefs according to what is relevant in the society they live in. If i was to live in Yemen i would certaintly change a variety of beliefs so as to incorparate myself into their society. Beliefs mut be flexible in order to survive the global reality of this world and maybe the west react this way to the veil issues since it seem as if islam cannot adapt its beliefs or doctrines and as such is a win all lose all mantality that will lead to conflict, conversion, or worse case war.
This is clearlyt another example of the failure of an ingrained islamic belief to adapt to a world of circumstances beyond their control. It is clear that I could blindling or religiously follows some standard that I belive is relevant to my beliefs but when such standards affect my ability to interact and participate in my community at large they are irrelevant. Beliefs such as a veil are relevant only within the cultural context to which they were formed and as such this teacher is in another world where such requirements are irrelevant. So why do you cling to beliefs that are no longer relavent to your direct environment unless you plan to create a middle east inside a western country. Maybe this is the plan? Is a failure to change beliefs a failure of islam to adapt to western environments or does islam have no intent on adapting rather forcing their views upon everyone else. The veil issue is a clear failure of muslims to take a look at their environment and change their beliefs according to what is relevant in the society they live in. If i was to live in Yemen i would certaintly change a variety of beliefs so as to incorparate myself into their society. Beliefs mut be flexible in order to survive the global reality of this world and maybe the west react this way to the veil issues since it seem as if islam cannot adapt its beliefs or doctrines and as such is a win all lose all mantality that will lead to conflict, conversion, or worse case war.
And you wrote such a long paragraph and it can be hit and destroyed like a house of cards.
What are they suppose to change their beliefs too? Christianity?
I don't see Judaism or Christianity adapting in the Middle East or elsewhere, so why should Islam?
Well the situation is stupid to begin with so its not serious anyway, unless you look it at it in a way of a government trying to curtail religious freedoms that Christians hold so dearly to their priests and such but oh it can't be used to Muslims.
OK
No need to talk about the structure of my paragraph i am not being terribly careful!! I am not suggesting that muslims change their beliefs to christianity any other faith rather that the circumstances surrond the establishment of beliefs systems are relevant to a certain cultural environment. As such the lack of adaptibity argument can possibly apply to christianity or any other of the belief system that is unable or does not allow a natural social evolution. To just take islam and bring it to Canada and plant a seed is similar to us trying to bring Democracy to the middle east. Beliefs are specific to societies and they evolve with societies not against societies. So I would claim that islam in the west is attemping to resist such social evolution and this represent a failure of a strict doctrine to account for different circumstance and different cultural realities. Learning and changing ones understanding of the world must occur in all, it just seems to me that islam and possibly christianity are unable to achieve adaptations but rather seclude themselves in an attemp to maintain culturaly irrelevant and socially unadaptable practices.
I think the nude beach is a fair analogy because they have chosen to live and work here amongst us.Researcher,you have posed an argument and refuted it in the same post. Don't worry though,small brains are accepted here as well as small penises on a nude beach. Cheers.
Interesting debate on this on tv. One man pointed out our society is founded on the belief of equality. Since veils are a symbol of inequality they should be shunned in our society. Another pointed out our country was also founded on freedom and as such women should be free to wear what they want, even the veil. I don't know where I sit.
You know wally, men who usually comment about the smallness of other men's 'penis' size is actually trying to hide their own smallness.
Why would anybody allow their own culture to be consumed and manipulated by alien residents?
Canada nor Britain nor any other civilised country in the world are Mulsim and we're supposed to bend over backwards for them? Hey, this woman CAME to a Christian country* and expects society to change for her? Forget it.
It's about time WE stood up for our own country and culture and STOPPED the onslaught of foreigners demanding us to change. Unfortunately, our political parties have figured out that while brainwashing our population into believing mass-immigration is healthy, they use other tactics to get this 'minority vote' by allowing them in like the flood gates opened by Katrina.
*Western countries have moved away from officially being "Christian" per se, but we're still a culture evolved from Christianity.
Canada nor Britain nor any other civilised country in the world are Mulsim and we're supposed to bend over backwards for them? Hey, this woman CAME to a Christian country* and expects society to change for her? Forget it.
It's about time WE stood up for our own country and culture and STOPPED the onslaught of foreigners demanding us to change. Unfortunately, our political parties have figured out that while brainwashing our population into believing mass-immigration is healthy, they use other tactics to get this 'minority vote' by allowing them in like the flood gates opened by Katrina.
*Western countries have moved away from officially being "Christian" per se, but we're still a culture evolved from Christianity.
This isn't about Muslims forcing non-Muslims to adopt their customs. Its about non-Muslims respecting Muslim customs. The tolerant thing would be to respect each other and compromise.
Why force these women into uncomfortable situations? This is racist and disrespectful. That we wouldn't feel uncomfortable in the same situation is beside the point.
Why force these women into uncomfortable situations? This is racist and disrespectful. That we wouldn't feel uncomfortable in the same situation is beside the point.
I think religion should be kept out of the classroom. Any religion unless it’s part of a study course.
I have no problem with people practicing their religion at home, but in the classroom students should have their own freedom to learn in a religious free environment and not have such freedom be intruded upon by another's beliefs. Classrooms should be about academics rather than ideologies. I say that regarding any religion.
From the sounds of the article, the religion crossed over from the point of a personal identity that one could keep private to themselves, to an issue where it had conflict/friction with the environment she work in. An environment that held no obligation to place any religious requirements on it’s student body or it’s operation of business.
A teacher is in a position of being a role model and influencing impressionable youth. Part of their education is also dependent on how they can interact with the teacher. If that interaction is hampered by the person’s belief system, it shouldn’t be at the detriment of the students to accommodate the needs of the teacher. I'm not suggesting hampered on the basis that the student might have a prejudice. This is not about the identity in itself, but rather the teacher projecting that identity in a way that crosses that boundary where their should be separation.
The other side to this is would be, for example, if you want a classroom taught by a nun. In that case, send your kid to a private school taught by a nun. Which is actually something I kind of disagree with too, but that is my personal point of view.
Perhaps their are Muslim based schools of a similar pretext. If a society allows this type of private institution of learning, then that would be the way to go with this situation.
....
Academics and art. Let's not forget art/poetry. A healthy balance in classrooms for both sides of the brain.
I have no problem with people practicing their religion at home, but in the classroom students should have their own freedom to learn in a religious free environment and not have such freedom be intruded upon by another's beliefs. Classrooms should be about academics rather than ideologies. I say that regarding any religion.
From the sounds of the article, the religion crossed over from the point of a personal identity that one could keep private to themselves, to an issue where it had conflict/friction with the environment she work in. An environment that held no obligation to place any religious requirements on it’s student body or it’s operation of business.
A teacher is in a position of being a role model and influencing impressionable youth. Part of their education is also dependent on how they can interact with the teacher. If that interaction is hampered by the person’s belief system, it shouldn’t be at the detriment of the students to accommodate the needs of the teacher. I'm not suggesting hampered on the basis that the student might have a prejudice. This is not about the identity in itself, but rather the teacher projecting that identity in a way that crosses that boundary where their should be separation.
The other side to this is would be, for example, if you want a classroom taught by a nun. In that case, send your kid to a private school taught by a nun. Which is actually something I kind of disagree with too, but that is my personal point of view.
Perhaps their are Muslim based schools of a similar pretext. If a society allows this type of private institution of learning, then that would be the way to go with this situation.
....
Academics and art. Let's not forget art/poetry. A healthy balance in classrooms for both sides of the brain.
Last edited:
Hm, funny, Judaism and Christianity are adapting to each other though.
I lived in a communistic minded country, but in 20 odd years I couldn't see my life going on that way especially knowing what was happening outside behind the unbreakable wall.
May I help?
Do you think a person should be forced to do something before they reach the mature age, like being covered under the veil, male or especially female circumsition which is done in a horrible painfull way - before they decide what they want bythemselves? Unless it's necessary offcourse, like immunising, learning etc.
Good point! I strongly agree here, if they interested in showing their religion let it be in religious school, like christian schools we have.
P.S. I knew someone who lived in ME and was christian, however in public school they were forced to study the Koran, knowing they were christians offcourse. Maybe we should do the same, if they want to study in ordinary schools it should be no veil, no scarf around your mouth, no whatever it is, as it clearly is showing the religious traditions.
I would agree if the teacher was forcing her student to wear a burka or convert to Islam, but she isn't doing these things. All she wants is the right not to expose her face around men. That means wearing a Burka in the classroom.
Nuns can and do work in public schools and can wear their habit. This is no different.
Nuns can and do work in public schools and can wear their habit. This is no different.