Canada’s cultural re-alignment

[Elyxir]

Well so far this site is not too bad.
Only one really annoying person on here by the looks of things

 

[Elyxir]

That's your beef, is it? Nobody asked for your input? What's your background ? Epidemiology? Virology? Maybe economics? It's simple really, the urgency of this thing just didn't allow giving everybody who might have read some snippet from some unknown "specialist" on facebook time at the microphone to have their say. We put our brightest and our best on it and went with that. What we have now is a bunch of malcontents and boat-rockers who are intent on slowing our progress against this threat. If you're still intent on being heard then you have options, most of them like you're doing here. Good luck on finding people to actually listen, at this point you're being counted among the hot heads and extremists who really don't know what they're talking about and don't have the good sense to leave this thing in qualified hands.

My credentials are , a citizen of this country. And that should be more then enough based on the special treatment some groups are getting.
Want good buy in? follow proper democratic process.

do your du diligence of inclusion.

its not that they tried & failed.

in this case no, they didn’t even try at all

 

[Nick Danger]

My credentials are , a citizen of this country.

One among thirty-eight million. Let's give them all some air time, okay? That shouldn't take long.

You seem to be hinting that proper democratic process should result in everyone getting what they want, that's not the way it works.

 

[Elyxir]

One among thirty-eight million. Let's give them all some air time, okay? That shouldn't take long.

You seem to be hinting that proper democratic process should result in everyone getting what they want, that's not the way it works.

Under the current political climate & culture, I see a big proportion of voices being totally ignored.

sorry. Not good enough.
The new ruling class needs to learn how to listen, or dissidents within our population will only grow.

 

[Elyxir]

So far the government’s solution is to limit & constraint a certain voice & opinion of having the ability to voice themselves. Hardly what qualifies as listening.

we have what a certain prime minister calls a failure to listen.
I don’t need a apology for it in 60 years from now.

i need the situation rectified effective immediately.

 

[Nick Danger]

Under the current political climate & culture, I see a big proportion of voices being totally ignored.
...
The new ruling class needs to learn how to listen, or dissidents within our population will only grow.

I don't disagree with those sentiments, the decisions "at the top" are more and more made by the very rich to assure the endurance of the very rich, and as has been the trend for the last fifty years or so, the middle class takes it in the ass. Issues like economic and social equality and environmental responsibility are more important now than ever, but still don't get much more than lip service at election time from our "leaders". That begs the questions of where do we actually want to be and how do we get there.

A lot of people are pushing the idea that this global pandemic is an opportunity as much as it is a disaster. With the global economy largely decimated, there is a chance to make some changes as things get put back together. But society is fractured and the is no focus. The rebuilding is being left in the hands of the rich and powerful who, as they always have, ensure their own prosperity above everyone else's. I spent my formative years in the sixties. I remember the norm then was that mom stayed home and looked after the home, and dad brought home the bacon. Enough that the house payment and the car payment were covered, and annual vacations happened, and at the end of the run there was a comfy pension with the house paid off. Now one job is nowhere near enough, and my children in their mid thirties are looking at having to have a hundred grand in their fists just to buy their way into a two or three thousand dollar a month mortgage.

I see a major redistribution of wealth as essential, but that very idea is just about always met with cries of "communist" or "socialist", and just about always from people with little to no knowledge of politics and economics. What has taken fifty years to happen, is going to take decades to undo, and only then if we can get our leaders to see the problem and take it seriously. Dissidence is growing, yes. We need only to look south of our borders to see what's down the road for us.

The decisions we make over the next few years will set the course for our future. Do we want more of the same or is there actually an opportunity to improve things ? Expect resistance here in a big way, for in order to improve things for the middle and lower classes, those at the top of the food chain are going to have to make do with less.

And more immediate is that nasty old pandemic. It boggles my mind why people would resist taking precautions to slow the spread, but the simplest of things like wearing a mask in public or getting a vaccination that should be no-brainers have become a rallying cry for people that really and truly do not know what they're talking about.

 

[pgs]

Where do you see me doing that?

And are you talking like Yoda 4 a reason or is it the meth?

All you have are personal attacks . Another Internet tough guy .

 

[Elyxir]

I don't disagree with those sentiments, the decisions "at the top" are more and more made by the very rich to assure the endurance of the very rich, and as has been the trend for the last fifty years or so, the middle class takes it in the ass. Issues like economic and social equality and environmental responsibility are more important now than ever, but still don't get much more than lip service at election time from our "leaders". That begs the questions of where do we actually want to be and how do we get there.

A lot of people are pushing the idea that this global pandemic is an opportunity as much as it is a disaster. With the global economy largely decimated, there is a chance to make some changes as things get put back together. But society is fractured and the is no focus. The rebuilding is being left in the hands of the rich and powerful who, as they always have, ensure their own prosperity above everyone else's. I spent my formative years in the sixties. I remember the norm then was that mom stayed home and looked after the home, and dad brought home the bacon. Enough that the house payment and the car payment were covered, and annual vacations happened, and at the end of the run there was a comfy pension with the house paid off. Now one job is nowhere near enough, and my children in their mid thirties are looking at having to have a hundred grand in their fists just to buy their way into a two or three thousand dollar a month mortgage.

I see a major redistribution of wealth as essential, but that very idea is just about always met with cries of "communist" or "socialist", and just about always from people with little to no knowledge of politics and economics. What has taken fifty years to happen, is going to take decades to undo, and only then if we can get our leaders to see the problem and take it seriously. Dissidence is growing, yes. We need only to look south of our borders to see what's down the road for us.

The decisions we make over the next few years will set the course for our future. Do we want more of the same or is there actually an opportunity to improve things ? Expect resistance here in a big way, for in order to improve things for the middle and lower classes, those at the top of the food chain are going to have to make do with less.

And more immediate is that nasty old pandemic. It boggles my mind why people would resist taking precautions to slow the spread, but the simplest of things like wearing a mask in public or getting a vaccination that should be no-brainers have become a rallying cry for people that really and truly do not know what they're talking about.

A voice that is ignored will only grow more extremist with time.

the failure to listen is a few years deep.

 

[pgs]

I don't disagree with those sentiments, the decisions "at the top" are more and more made by the very rich to assure the endurance of the very rich, and as has been the trend for the last fifty years or so, the middle class takes it in the ass. Issues like economic and social equality and environmental responsibility are more important now than ever, but still don't get much more than lip service at election time from our "leaders". That begs the questions of where do we actually want to be and how do we get there.

A lot of people are pushing the idea that this global pandemic is an opportunity as much as it is a disaster. With the global economy largely decimated, there is a chance to make some changes as things get put back together. But society is fractured and the is no focus. The rebuilding is being left in the hands of the rich and powerful who, as they always have, ensure their own prosperity above everyone else's. I spent my formative years in the sixties. I remember the norm then was that mom stayed home and looked after the home, and dad brought home the bacon. Enough that the house payment and the car payment were covered, and annual vacations happened, and at the end of the run there was a comfy pension with the house paid off. Now one job is nowhere near enough, and my children in their mid thirties are looking at having to have a hundred grand in their fists just to buy their way into a two or three thousand dollar a month mortgage.

I see a major redistribution of wealth as essential, but that very idea is just about always met with cries of "communist" or "socialist", and just about always from people with little to no knowledge of politics and economics. What has taken fifty years to happen, is going to take decades to undo, and only then if we can get our leaders to see the problem and take it seriously. Dissidence is growing, yes. We need only to look south of our borders to see what's down the road for us.

The decisions we make over the next few years will set the course for our future. Do we want more of the same or is there actually an opportunity to improve things ? Expect resistance here in a big way, for in order to improve things for the middle and lower classes, those at the top of the food chain are going to have to make do with less.

And more immediate is that nasty old pandemic. It boggles my mind why people would resist taking precautions to slow the spread, but the simplest of things like wearing a mask in public or getting a vaccination that should be no-brainers have become a rallying cry for people that really and truly do not know what they're talking about.

Most of those last fifty odd years saw Liberals occupying the big chair in Ottawa . So you are suggesting they are the party of big business and big money ? Quick tell the CBC .

 

[pgs]

One among thirty-eight million. Let's give them all some air time, okay? That shouldn't take long.

You seem to be hinting that proper democratic process should result in everyone getting what they want, that's not the way it works.

Yet you are calling for redistribution of wealth .

 

[Nick Danger]

Most of those last fifty odd years saw Liberals occupying the big chair in Ottawa . So you are suggesting they are the party of big business and big money ? Quick tell the CBC .

I'm suggesting that big business and big money have called the shots not because of who is in power, but despite who is in power. Our so-called elected officials, no matter what their political stripe, are less than influential when it comes to affecting corporate policy.

 

[Nick Danger]

Yet you are calling for redistribution of wealth .

Using the US as an example, the richest three people in the country hold more wealth than the poorest 180 million. Doesn't that seem just a little out of balance ?

Poverty, hunger, homelessness, illiteracy, preventable disease, polluted air and water, just about every negative issue that we face today has its roots in the inequitable distribution of the planets wealth and resources.

 

[Nick Danger]

the failure to listen is a few years deep.

It starts with a failure to see what has been a process ongoing for decades. A watershed moment in the growth of this phenomenon was the publishing of an essay in the New York Times in September of 1970 titled "The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase its Profits" by economist Milton Friedman. This marked the onset of something that has come to be called Neo-liberalism, which among other things moved employees from a position as stakeholders in a corporate structure to numbers on an expense sheet, It was at this point that things started downhill for employees in general. Wages fell behind inflation rate, benefit packages dwindled and disappeared, their very value as part of the corporate equation diminished.

 

[pgs]

Using the US as an example, the richest three people in the country hold more wealth than the poorest 180 million. Doesn't that seem just a little out of balance ?

Poverty, hunger, homelessness, illiteracy, preventable disease, polluted air and water, just about every negative issue that we face today has its roots in the inequitable distribution of the planets wealth and resources.

Using the US as an example, the richest three people in the country hold more wealth than the poorest 180 million. Doesn't that seem just a little out of balance ?

Poverty, hunger, homelessness, illiteracy, preventable disease, polluted air and water, just about every negative issue that we face today has its roots in the inequitable distribution of the planets wealth and resources.

Yes and if we took all the wealth from these three richest people we would still have poverty , homelessness and illiteracy.

 

[Elyxir]

Using the US as an example, the richest three people in the country hold more wealth than the poorest 180 million. Doesn't that seem just a little out of balance ?

Poverty, hunger, homelessness, illiteracy, preventable disease, polluted air and water, just about every negative issue that we face today has its roots in the inequitable distribution of the planets wealth and resources.

It starts with a failure to see what has been a process ongoing for decades. A watershed moment in the growth of this phenomenon was the publishing of an essay in the New York Times in September of 1970 titled "The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase its Profits" by economist Milton Friedman. This marked the onset of something that has come to be called Neo-liberalism, which among other things moved employees from a position as stakeholders in a corporate structure to numbers on an expense sheet, It was at this point that things started downhill for employees in general. Wages fell behind inflation rate, benefit packages dwindled and disappeared, their very value as part of the corporate equation diminished.

Wealth redistribution is a nasty affair. Usually something that benefits all who arr concerned is less capital intensive to police & maintain.

I favour creation of new wealth opportunity’s as a much less abrasive alternative & still produces the goal of lifting people out of poverty

 

[Elyxir]

Historically wealth redistribution has always failed. I don’t usually pick losers if I want to bet on a horse.
I think it fails because it doesn’t have the consensus of both sides to buy into it willingly

 

[Nick Danger]

I favour creation of new wealth opportunity’s as a much less abrasive alternative & still produces the goal of lifting people out of poverty

Different name, same ultimate goal.

The common mistake is looking at the current situations as something that can be cured quickly. The current state of imbalance has been fifty years in the making, and will probably take at least that to correct. What is essential to start the process is to recognize the problem and commit to correcting it, and that will see quick and organized resistance from those who see their own wealth threatened. Spread it out over a few generations and it won't seem so drastic, but the goal could still be realized.

 

[Nick Danger]

Historically wealth redistribution has always failed. I don’t usually pick losers if I want to bet on a horse.
I think it fails because it doesn’t have the consensus of both sides to buy into it willingly

Has it ever really been tried ? Or is it just passing spurts of "flavour of the week" causes that are quickly beaten back ?

 

[Elyxir]

Different name, same ultimate goal.

The common mistake is looking at the current situations as something that can be cured quickly. The current state of imbalance has been fifty years in the making, and will probably take at least that to correct. What is essential to start the process is to recognize the problem and commit to correcting it, and that will see quick and organized resistance from those who see their own wealth threatened. Spread it out over a few generations and it won't seem so drastic, but the goal could still be realized.

Wealth redistribution is a nasty endeavour. Creating new wealth opportunities & target the opportunities to the poor.

 

[Elyxir]

Has it ever really been tried ? Or is it just passing spurts of "flavour of the week" causes that are quickly beaten back ?

Yes. Many times, and with many casualties.

the trick is to implement policies all sides intend to live up too. Or you will spend what you have gained policing & enforcing the policy.