Largest oil drop in history underway, analysts say

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,133
9,422
113
Washington DC
I'd be pickled tink if Canaduh had the rail system of days gone by. If you want to travel quickly plane is great but the train is by far the most comfortable and enjoyable way to travel.
Yep. Only time I hire a car in Europe is in Ireland. Otherwise I get on the train and relax.

Protip: If you're travelling by train in Europe, check out the first-class fares. They are often only about 10 euro more than the second-class fares, and sometimes even the same price as second class.

Protip 2: With a little planning, you can save around 70% on average just by committing to a specific travel time instead of buying an "open" ticket.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,165
14,240
113
Low Earth Orbit
30 years ago I'd have no issues with travelling coach and hanging out with the cool kids. That was short lived after an upgrade to a berth. A first class fare still gives access to the coach bar car with an easy going, local intercity crowd.

I've done the Shinkansen twice, steam loco pulled in Thailand and a narrow gauge in the Andes.

China is next and then India for the Darjeeling.

Obviously I really really like rail.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,133
9,422
113
Washington DC
30 years ago I'd have no issues with travelling coach and hanging out with the cool kids. That was short lived after an upgrade to a berth. A first class fare still gives access to the coach bar car with an easy going, local intercity crowd.
I've done the Shinkansen twice, steam locks in Thailand and a narrow gauge in the Andes.
China is next.
30 years ago I could sleep quite comfortably on a pile of rocks. Entropy sucks.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Again, that's a shot at somebody else's solution, not a solution of your own.


Agreed, however, an issue of importance is that multiple gvts and global bodies (ie UN) are ignorantly embracing this flawed strategy as a solution right now (ie today) and basing important national/global policies on it.


As such, and in this case, it is important that the proposed (flawed) solution be open to all analysis and criticism.


Look, as I've said several times, most recently in my support of pipelines, we are decades away from 100% "green." And as you've pointed out many times, "green" solutions have environmental effects.

But the pollution problems of "green" energy can be solved, just as the pollution problems of fossil fuels have been improved considerably. I read an automotive engineer who said that a 1972 Chevy Nova, brand new, put more pollution into the air when it was sitting at the curb with the engine off than a 2016 Honda Accord puts out when it's running down the road at 60 mph (100 kph).


We are on the same page.. I have said on many occasion that it is not a matter of 'if' this tech becomes dominant but 'when' it happens.


Will the tech evolve to higher efficiencies?... Of course it will.


Does the current tech have a functional role at present?... Absolutely.


.... However, preaching a message of fear and disaster to the population does not solve the issues of things like massive upgrading in infrastructure being essential (that will take decades and trillions to develop), the absolute need to major advances in the various techs and most importantly, society as we know it today would cease without having a readily available supply of fuels (and the derivative products) that are derived from hydrocarbons.


That is the reality and all of the hypocritical messages and promotion of fear and devastation in the public at large will never change this fact - so why do it in the first place?
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
4
36
10:16 am CST 06/03/2020

Canadian Crude Index
28.65 -10.30%


^here is why the trans mountain pipeline and the Frontier Mine are pointless
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,165
14,240
113
Low Earth Orbit
Exactly. On a well planned trip it's a treat to wake up in a new city to explore for a day or two and carry on without stress.
 
Last edited:

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,133
9,422
113
Washington DC
Agreed, however, an issue of importance is that multiple gvts and global bodies (ie UN) are ignorantly embracing this flawed strategy as a solution right now (ie today) and basing important national/global policies on it.
As such, and in this case, it is important that the proposed (flawed) solution be open to all analysis and criticism.
We are on the same page.. I have said on many occasion that it is not a matter of 'if' this tech becomes dominant but 'when' it happens.
Will the tech evolve to higher efficiencies?... Of course it will.
Does the current tech have a functional role at present?... Absolutely.
.... However, preaching a message of fear and disaster to the population does not solve the issues of things like massive upgrading in infrastructure being essential (that will take decades and trillions to develop), the absolute need to major advances in the various techs and most importantly, society as we know it today would cease without having a readily available supply of fuels (and the derivative products) that are derived from hydrocarbons.
That is the reality and all of the hypocritical messages and promotion of fear and devastation in the public at large will never change this fact - so why do it in the first place?
We're on the same page, and I realize this ain't really the place for deep, extended conversations on the pressing issues of the day, but let's at least take a shot at elevating the dialogue once in while, OK?

There's no reason to let the screaming meemies on any side of the issue (any issue) monopolize the whole damn internet.

I will if you will.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
10:16 am CST 06/03/2020

Canadian Crude Index
28.65 -10.30%


^here is why the trans mountain pipeline and the Frontier Mine are pointless


The following quotes are in USD, not Cdn pesos



WTI Crude 45.9 Brent Crude 49.99 OPEC Crude 51.74




We're on the same page, and I realize this ain't really the place for deep, extended conversations on the pressing issues of the day, but let's at least take a shot at elevating the dialogue once in while, OK?

There's no reason to let the screaming meemies on any side of the issue (any issue) monopolize the whole damn internet.

I will if you will.


Agreed and you have a deal
 

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
11,619
6,262
113
Olympus Mons
So, what's your solution? Go back to pre-plastics?

Seriously. You're more than willing (eager, in fact) to take shots at other people's solutions, but I don't think I've ever heard you propose one. I'd like to. You're one of the saner and smarter people here.
There is no solution Tec. Everything we do is going to have a negative impact on the environment. On top of that, the enviros have no clue what they're doing either. Remember paper plates, cups, shopping bags, etc? The greenies told us we had to stop using those products because of deforestation. So, we replaced those paper items with plastics and styrofoams. But those plastics and styrofoams were getting into the food chain and killing sea life so the greenies demanded a stop to their use. The solution? Paper products. Apparently the greenies just figured out how to plant a tree in the last decade and are now calling wood and paper, "renewables".


And it's not so much I have an issue with other people's "solutions", it's the fact the green f*cks act like their solutions cause absolutely no environmental harm when in fact they have caused and are causing some pretty serious damage. It's the smarmy, shit-sucking attitude I hate, not the "solutions" per se. And as far as Canada's oil industry goes, the greenies would have you believe we're just dumping all that oil on the ground and rolling baby seals around in it or something.


And it's not like I'm some kind of eco-nihilist either. I no longer drive. My electronics are at least 10 years old. My heat and electricity are derived from predominantly emissions-free source. Our yard isn't a green, manicured lawn, we decided to create a space for the wildlife that was displaced when this place was built. Bonus effect: our cats LOVE watching the birds and little critters.


The only "solution" I can come up with really, is to quit knee-jerking "solutions" and acting like they're panacea cures for our environmental shortcomings. There are already thousands of derelict wind turbines just standing their and rotting. Apparently the companies that installed them won't remove them because it's just not "cost effective" for them. Man, good thing the green energy industry isn't just a bunch of profit-driven greed-hogs like the oil industry is supposedly full of.


I don't even know if cold fusion is really a solution either. Even though it could power an entire nation or continent with unlimited power, you'd still need to build more than one facility because powering a country from a single power source/location is just colossally stupid. If it were that easy, Quebec and Ontario could easily power all of Canada with their predominantly emissions-free power generation.


Trust me Tec, if I thought there was an actual solution to halt our environmental degradation I'd be all over it and pushing it like a heroin dealer. Well, there is one but it's not very pleasant. Reduce the human population. In this regard, I think modern medicine has created at least as many problems in one area, as it solved in another area. However this isn't a solution I wish to push, I simply mention it for reality check purposes.


That was also the purpose of the pic I posted. A reality check. It was pointing out that while the ALT-left blubber-heads scream and cry about this: (one of several in situ oil extraction facilities in Alberta)


they're more than happy to contribute to the mess that is Lake Baotou, and others.
 

B00Mer

Make Canada Great Again
Sep 6, 2008
47,127
8,145
113
Rent Free in Your Head
www.canadianforums.ca
It's like you're looking in a mirror. . .
But just for you, I don't "favor" electric cars. I favor whatever solution transports the most cargo (including meatsacks) the greatest distance with the greatest convenience and does the least harm in the process. Sometimes that's trains, sometimes it's pipelines, sometimes it's trucks, sometimes it's busses, sometimes it's cars, sometimes it's bicycles or scooters.
Sometimes it's shoe leather.
When it's cars, I favor petroleum, hydrogen, electric, compressed-air, hybrid. and whatever the next big idea is. I had a Nissan Sentra that I swear was powered by two squirrels in a wheel. Whatever gets the job done best by the criteria above is what I favor.


Well you are posting on a "Canadian" forum, so I "favour" Hydrogen because it's available now, and people can transition now, rather than later.

I'd also favour the colour red for my new Hydrogen car. ;)

Do you remember when people where complaining that paper bags would lead to deforestation? Plastic bags were the solution? Now Walmart and other retailers are dumping plastic bags.

We could end up with the same problem when it comes to disposing the batteries used to power all these electric cars.

Many times society doesn't consider future environmental issues, just the immediate quick feel good fix.

Now back to the chesterfield to relax and watch NetFlix
 
Last edited:

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,133
9,422
113
Washington DC
Well you are posting on a "Canadian" forum, so I "favour" Hydrogen because it's available now, and people can transition now, rather than later.
Best you could do?

The most economically and culturally dominant country that speaks a given language sets the standard. For English, that was England for a long time, and the "King's English."

Now it's the U.S., and if all y'all don't like it, guess what? Nobody cares.

Speak the President's American, or eat whatever your charming, rustic local word for "shit" is.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,133
9,422
113
Washington DC
The only "solution" I can come up with really, is to quit knee-jerking "solutions" and acting like they're panacea cures for our environmental shortcomings. There are already thousands of derelict wind turbines just standing their and rotting. Apparently the companies that installed them won't remove them because it's just not "cost effective" for them. Man, good thing the green energy industry isn't just a bunch of profit-driven greed-hogs like the oil industry is supposedly full of.
I don't even know if cold fusion is really a solution either. Even though it could power an entire nation or continent with unlimited power, you'd still need to build more than one facility because powering a country from a single power source/location is just colossally stupid. If it were that easy, Quebec and Ontario could easily power all of Canada with their predominantly emissions-free power generation.
Trust me Tec, if I thought there was an actual solution to halt our environmental degradation I'd be all over it and pushing it like a heroin dealer. Well, there is one but it's not very pleasant. Reduce the human population. In this regard, I think modern medicine has created at least as many problems in one area, as it solved in another area. However this isn't a solution I wish to push, I simply mention it for reality check purposes.
OK, now it's you, captain morgan, and me on board. Like I said to him, some ranting and raving at those annoying, sanctimonious libbies is good for you, but try not to make it a steady diet.

What's the way out? Same way we got in. Research, engineering, and regulation. If we (collectively) are smart, we'll figure it out. If we aren't, well, I don't imagine the universe'll miss us.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,165
14,240
113
Low Earth Orbit
Well you are posting on a "Canadian" forum, so I "favour" Hydrogen because it's available now, and people can transition now, rather than later.
I'd also favour the colour red for my new Hydrogen car. ;)
Do you remember when people where complaining that paper bags would lead to deforestation? Plastic bags were the solution? Now Walmart and other retailers are dumping plastic bags.
We could end up with the same problem when it comes to disposing the batteries used to power all these electric cars.
Many times society doesn't consider future environmental issues, just the immediate quick feel good fix.
Now back to the chesterfield to relax and watch NetFlix
Convert your truck to NG and eliminate the power gobbling Tier3
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,165
14,240
113
Low Earth Orbit
OK, now it's you, captain morgan, and me on board. Like I said to him, some ranting and raving at those annoying, sanctimonious libbies is good for you, but try not to make it a steady diet.
What's the way out? Same way we got in. Research, engineering, and regulation. If we (collectively) are smart, we'll figure it out. If we aren't, well, I don't imagine the universe'll miss us.
Is it really about the environment or is it merely starting to be frugal with resources that is will be in demand for hundreds of years to come?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,165
14,240
113
Low Earth Orbit
It's all going to enter the closed systems of the surface of earth just later than sooner.

O&G are necessities.

As an example, If fertilizer made from NG disappeared overnight Billions will be starving the following year.

Oil gas and coal are not going away.
 

B00Mer

Make Canada Great Again
Sep 6, 2008
47,127
8,145
113
Rent Free in Your Head
www.canadianforums.ca
Best you could do?
The most economically and culturally dominant country that speaks a given language sets the standard. For English, that was England for a long time, and the "King's English."
Now it's the U.S., and if all y'all don't like it, guess what? Nobody cares.
Speak the President's American, or eat whatever your charming, rustic local word for "shit" is.

Poor T-Bones so easily Triggered over the King's English. :lol: