Understanding Sunnism and Shi'ism

[Murphy]

That doesn't make sense. You talk about stories from a book proven to be written by servants of Satan. Murderers who killed MoHAM-Ed's illegitimate children.

Hudhaifa said, 'In fact, it was hypocrisy that existed in the lifetime of the Prophet but today it is Kufr (disbelief) after belief.'

 

[ZulFiqar786]

Now Imam Ali, who married the Prophet’s beloved daughter Fatima, had two sons, Hasan and Hussain (maternal grandsons of the Prophet). The Prophet cherished both of these grandsons and was very attached to them. When Ali was assassinated he was succeeded by his eldest son Hasan. Hasan remained as the fifth successor for about six months, but then agreed to cease the war with Mu’awiya by resigning from his position and pledging allegiance to Mu’awiya. Thus ended the ‘Rightly-Guided’ Caliphate which lasted for exactly thirty years after the Prophet died.

Mu’awiya, based in Damascus, as mentioned earlier, was part of the Umayyad clan. Now his rule became established over the entire Islamic empire and the Umayyad dynasty began. Breaking with the Sunni tradition of electing a leader most qualified to lead the Muslims through consultation, Mu’awiya designated his own son Yazid to succeed him. Yazid was well known to be an immoral man and a drunkard. When Mu’awiya died in 680 CE, Yazid wanted to ensure that there would be no challenge to his succession given his bad reputation among the Muslim community. Yazid sent his cousin Marwan son of Hakam (who will be discussed later) to ensure that his governor in Medina acquired the pledge of allegiance from Hussain (Hasan’s younger brother – by this time Hasan had already died), from Abdullah the son of Umar (the second caliph) and from Abdullah the son of Zubair (a senior disciple of the Prophet was died in the Battle of the Camel). These three were the senior most leaders in piety and position in the Muslim community so Yazid knew it was essential to coerce them into pledging allegiance to him in order to secure his rule. While Umar’s son Abd Allah pledged allegiance to Yazid, the other two including Husain left Medina for Mecca and refused to give allegiance to an immoral person like Yazid.

Meanwhile, the people of Kufa were eager to invite Husain to return to Kufa and lead them. They wrote countless letters to him to this effect inviting him to Kufa to become their leader. Husain was at first suspicious because he knew the people of Kufa had given his own father a hard time and weren’t a people who kept their word. Therefore, he sent his cousin Muslim son of Aqil (Aqil was Ali’s older brother) to Kufa to examine the situation and report back to him. Muslim went to Kufa and initially was well received by the elders of the town. They pledged allegiance to Husain through his agency. Muslim then wrote to Hussain to make haste to Kufa as the people there were ready to accept him.

Yazid, fearing a rebellion was brewing in Kufa, decided to replace the governor of the town with a harsh man named Ubaid Allah son of Ziyad. Upon arrival in Kufa, this new governor immediately began bribing the elders of Kufa and threatening those with severe consequences if they didn’t stop their activities in favor of Husain. Hence Muslim found himself betrayed by the frightened people of Kufa who feared retaliation from the Umayyads and their vicious governor. Muslim was abandoned by himself and took refuge in an old woman’s home. She tried to hide him knowing her son wasn’t trustworthy. The old woman’s son discerned that Muslim was hiding in his house. He didn’t say anything to his mother but went straight to the governor to acquire the bounty for reporting Muslim’s whereabouts who at this point was a fugitive. Immediately Muslim was discovered and surrounded by the governor’s troops. Though he faught a valiant battle he was vastly outnumbered being only one person and was martyred. Not being aware of this new turn of events, Hussain had already set off in a journey with 72 close friends and relatives, including women and little children for Kufa to assume the leadership.

 

[Murphy]

Thanks Nassir, but that makes no sense. It is full of Satanic violence, trickery and evil.
---

In the Pāli Canon, a collection of writings of the Theravadan Buddhists, the 1st Precept is not to take life. Any life.

"Panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami." which means, "I will abstain from taking life."

Muslims disobey the first precept and defile man with their ignorance. This creates bad Kharma and means that you continue to reincarnate, and you cannot attain spiritual nervana.

"If I take someone's life, I myself may be reborn as one of the creatures of hell. Better that I be reborn a creature of hell than that this living being, having committed a deed of immediate retribution, should go straight to hell."

Killing, unless it is done for compassionate reasons, means you repeat the wheel. The killing must be done with compassion and later, with virtuous thought.

Muslims do not do this.

 

[ZulFiqar786]

The Prophet’s beloved grandson had set off for Kufa with a caravan of 72 relatives and close allies, including little children. They were martyred at a place called Karbala when they were intercepted by Yazid’s army. Hussain himself was martyred on the 10th of Muharram, known as Ashura, a holy day in Islam which corresponds to Yom Kippur in the Jewish tradition (10th of Tishrei). The tale of the battle itself is very emotional but highlights the distinction between good and evil, as Hussain and his companions were denied water, Hussain’s own infant son murdered before his eyes. Hussain’s son Ali known as Zain-ul-Abidin ‘the Jewel of Worshipers’ happened to be bedridden during the battle proper and hence was taken prisoner to Damascus along with the womenfolk, placed in heavy chains and dragged about the city as the shameless Damascenes celebrated their ‘victory’. Hussain’s severed head was presented to Yazid. According to Shi’ite tradition Yazid tapped the teeth of Hussain with his staff and arrogantly proclaimed that revenge was finally achieved for the Battle of Badr, the first battle of Islam when the Prophet had defeated his pagan forefathers and clansmen in 624 CE.

The martyrdom of the Prophet’s own grandson at the hands of people claiming to be Muslim, under the orders of Yazid who was enthroned in Damascus living an immoral life of luxury and indulgence shocked the conscience of the Muslim world. Immediately the Muslims in Mecca, under the leadership of Abd Allah son of Zubair began an uprising. Abd Allah son of Zubair was proclaimed caliph.

In Shi’ism, the tragedy of Karbala is the defining moment of history and has come to define the ‘cult of martyrdom’ that is especially emphasized in that tradition. The Twelver Shi’ites, today the major branch of Shi’ism predominant in Iran, Iraq, Bahrain, and southern Lebanon, commemorate the 10th of Muharram and the martyrdom of Hussain through mourning rituals, processions, moving and emotional eulogies in the mosque and passion plays to recount the events in a dramatic manner. Some Shi’ites even engage in rituals of self-flaggelation and self-mortification, whipping themselves with chains, cutting themselves with knives, a practice known as ‘Tatbir’ to atone for their ancestors of Kufa sin of having betrayed Hussain all those centuries ago.

 

[Murphy]

Was that Mo-HAM-Ed's illegitimate grandson? No matter. Your culture is violent and cursed from within. You will have to tell Nassir to send you these stories more quickly.
---

Mahayana Brahajala explained the first precept this way.

You shall not yourself kill, encourage others to kill, kill by expedient means, praise killing, rejoice at witnessing killing, or kill through incantation or deviant mantras. (ex.The Quran) You must not create the causes, conditions, methods, or karma of killing, and you shall not intentionally kill any living creature.

Muslims do not obey this.

 

[ZulFiqar786]

Alarmed about Abd Allah son of Zubair uprising in the Hijaz (western Arabia) in the sacred towns of Mecca and Medina, Yazid sent an army from Syria of ten thousand soldiers to crush the revolt. The Battle of Harra in 683 CE near Medina resulted in a victory for the Umayyads. The Syrian army of Yazid looted the sacred town of Medina for three days, a major desecration given its religious sanctity. Immediately thereafter the Syrian forces proceeded to Mecca and sieges the sacred city. Their siege attacks resulted in the Ka’ba, the most sacred shrine in Islam, being engulfed in flames. The the siege ended abruptly when it was learned that Yazid had suddenly died. Yazid’s unexpected and premature death breathed new life into Ibn Zubair’s revolt and resulted in disarray for the Umayyad forces. Ibn Zubair was proclaimed caliph throughout the Muslim world, and was able to send various governs to govern the provinces including Kufa in Iraq, Egypt, and a great part of Syria. For a while it seemed as though the scourge of the Umayyads would finally end.

Meanwhile, the people of Kufa were still reeling from the shock of Imam Hussain’s martyrdom. One of the Prophet’s disciples, Suleman son of Surad, who was among the elders of Kufa that had originally enthusiastically invited Imam Hussain to come to Kufa, felt remorse for having not come to Hussain’s aid. He led a movement in Kufa known as the Tawwabin ‘Penitents’ to atone for their sin of having abandoned Hussain at his hour of need. They invoked the example of the Israelites who had to use the sword to expiate their collective sin of having worshiped the golden calf. Thus Suleman and his followers made up their minds to fight with the Umayyads hoping to achieve martyrdom and thus atone for their sin. This they did achieve at the Battle of Ain Warda in 685 CE. Though only 5,000 in strength, the Penitents were met by a massive Umayyad force of 20,000, led by their fierce general Husain son of Numair (who had also been in charge of the siege of Mecca two years earlier). They were totally decimated by the Umayyads and thus achieved their purpose of atoning for their sin of having abandoned Imam Hussain and not coming to his aid.

 

[Murphy]

It is said that Muslims were banished to the hot, burning desert to live in eternity because of their hateful, violent ways.

Let me tell you a true story, and not quotes from Satanic Verses.

Buddhists serve in many of the world's armed forces. There are even Buddhist chaplains. They do not exist to demand, dictate or preach, but to advise. Here, George Harrison explain, the art of dying. It is very deep. It was from his 1970 recording, All Things Must Pass.

[youtube]HZBzDN_eIDA[/youtube]

Buddhism does not demand absolute pacifism beause this must be a personal choice, based on a logical application of kindness and love. That said, Buddhists describe war and killing as 'akusala' Unskillful and evil. We look to the monks for guidance in this and believe their advice, which is, simplified, "Do not kill."

Like euthanasia, it may disturb the proper transition to nirvana. You would be responsible for corrupting a spiritual transition.

Muslims do not obey this and it explains why they are unclean.

 

[ZulFiqar786]

I’ve amalgamated everything I wrote, being impressed with its clarity, into a single entry on my blog http://islamsalvationfromhell.blogspot.ca/2017/09/early-islamic-history-part-1.html

I am also working on a small book which will be available for purchase online soon.

 

[Murphy]

It is not going to be a positive part of the the cosmos. Islam is too dark and violent. Destroy your book. It was crafted by Shaitan.

The writings of the Quran were scripted by Jinns and under demons of Shaitan, the devil. This is a negative thing and despoils man. In the Quran, Dukkha is seen throughout. Dukkha is best defined as the negativity associated with pain and suffering.

No one should be encouraged to hurt others. The constant references to killing in the Quran demonstrate that it was not written by anyone of virtue.

Mahayana Brahajala Sutra explained it, in part, this way.

Everyone should nurture a mind of compassion and filial piety, always devising expedient means to rescue and protect all beings. If instead, he fails to restrain himself and kills sentient beings without mercy, he commits a major offense.

The teachings of Islam encourage violence and killing.

 

[TenPenny]

Sunnyism is when people like to be outdoors and get tanned.


Shittism is one of those weird fetishes involving anal sex.

 

[MHz]

Not at all. But I am a Muslim student of knowledge. If any question related to the topic of this thread or Islam in general I will entertain them provided done so in a respectful way to sincerely learn and not to bash or with malicious intent. Otherwise will simply ignore such messages and carry on with my discourse.

If the countries of the Mid-east were divided into sects as also being political borders what would the map look like??

 

[ZulFiqar786]

If the countries of the Mid-east were divided into sects as also being political borders what would the map look like??

 

[Murphy]

It's a shame, that. Muslims fighting other Muslims because one group does not conform to the other's belief set. Islam is truly muddled. It is time for a reset. It's time for Muslims to cast off their old ways and reject the hate that surrounds them. It is time to look for a better way.

There are over 500 million Buddhists (and the number is growing). Buddhism is not a religion. It is a philosophy. Buddhists live by five precepts. No one should,

harm living things
take what is not theirs to take
engage in sexual misconduct
lie or gossip
injest intoxicating substances

These five precepts ensure that all people can live together in peace and harmony.

Muslims have chosen to follow the Satanic teachings which include killing, destruction of property, lying (taqiyya). Many, despite being told not to drink, consume alcohol. Their souls are unclean and they are destined to go straight to hell.

You can see from your map the divisiveness of Islam. So sad that people are bred, only to kill others.

 

[EagleSmack]

You can see from your map the divisiveness of Islam. So sad that people are bred, only to kill others.

With a WHOLE bunch of Shia right in the middle.

 

[Twin_Moose]

Why is it that Mohammad that spoke to Allah and was able to write the Quran was not able to speak to Allah about who through time should be the leaders of Islam? Wouldn't he be able through consultation with Allah be able to foresee the turmoil that was to happen after his death?

 

[Murphy]

Well, Mo didn't actually write the book. The stories were written by others. Some, hundreds of years after Mo kicked the camel.

Your question has merit. For religions who worship one or more gods, these god(s), or the entities they appoint (like, say, Jesus or Mo), should be around to keep things on the straight and level. But as you have pointed out, they don't. For some reason, these gods don't seem to mind murder, rape, destruction and unrest. This is one of the arguments learned individuals and institutions have put forward that supports their claim that there cannot be any gods.

Those who are members of an organized religion will respond with what they believe are logical and infallible answers. My personal favourite is, "He is all knowing and all powerful. We may not understand, but He does." Another is, "He will reveal all in time." Mystic!

Okay, but in the meantime, things are getting badly out of hand down here.

For Christians and Jews, a loving god wouldn't want that pain, suffering and confusion. He would want to put things right. Like a father would, when dealing with rambunctious children. And Muslims? Well, the Quran is all about whether you're on their side or not. They kill the ones who do not stand with them. God told them to do that.

So far, all I've seen is a vengeful, but loving god, who tells some of His creations to kill unbelievers, while others are told to turn the other cheek. God must be an extraterrestrial with a wild sense of humour!

 

[EagleSmack]

These truck drivers in Iraq were asked questions about Sunnism ...

They did not get the answers correct...

 

[Durry]

They just look for a reason to kill, but hey, cheer up,,, it's Muslim killing Muslims,,, how can that be bad eh!!

 

[ZulFiqar786]

Why is it that Mohammad that spoke to Allah and was able to write the Quran was not able to speak to Allah about who through time should be the leaders of Islam? Wouldn't he be able through consultation with Allah be able to foresee the turmoil that was to happen after his death?

Our Prophet did indeed accurately predict the trials and tribulations that would follow his death. For example, he told his disciple Uthman that God would clothe him in a garment which people would try to strip away from him, but that he should not allow them to do so and wear what God had given him. At the time Uthman didn’t understand the meaning of this prophecy. But when he became the third Caliph and then the rebel party of Muslims besieged him demanding he resign (an episode I mentioned) the words of this prophecy became clear to him that the garment God had clothed him with was the Caliphate and that he should follow the Prophet’s instructions and not take it off. For by resigning from the Caliphate a dangerous precedent would be set. Likewise the Prophet predicted that many of his disciples would be killed in the civil strife, naming them by name. However, because all of these events were destined to happen and part of God’s plan, therefore there was no way they could be averted, and the prophecies were such that they were not immediately discernable but became crystal clear after being fulfilled.

 

[justlooking]

So what is the principal difference between the Sunni and the Shi-ites (forgive the spelling)? I see some history here but still not an answer to that question.
.

Sunni want to kill Jews first and Christians second.

Shiitties want to kill Christians first and Jews second.


THAT is the difference.