What redemption and what intercession

selfsame

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No redemption .. anyone is responsible about his acts, and none bears the sin of others.
They think Adam was created in heaven, and when he disobeyed God, he was forced to leave heaven and go to the earth .. and this sin, as they think, was inherited by all his seed .. why is this? If the father commits a crime, will the police and court take to account his sons for the crime of their father ?

While Adam was created on Earth, not in heaven; he was created in a garden on a mountain, then when he disobeyed God, Adam was punished .. his mountain garden dried up on account of his sin, so he was obliged to leave the mountain and go down to the plain land to toil and work.

So for what will the redemption be?

While the matter of the intercession as a whole is up to God Himself, He has the absolute authority to admit this or that one to Paradise or Hell and that is according to His justice and kindness.

Quran 34: 23, which means:
{The intercession [of any] will not profit with Him, save for whom [God] will permit.}

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/34.htm#a34_23
<quran-ayat.com/pret/34.htm#a34_23>
 

selfsame

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Who is "they"? Who believes Adam was "created" in Heaven?

All Jews, Christians, and Muslims think that Adam was created in heaven or in the paradise;

but the Mahdi: Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly told people in his book that Adam and Eve were created on one of the earth mountains (almost in the north of Iraq: in Shaqlawa maybe); there was a garden (one of the natural earth gardens) on that mountain,

then when Adam disobeyed God, he was punished: the trees of that garden dried up and the water disappeared from the mountains so as to spring below in the plain land .. and as such Adam together with his wife and the cattle were obliged to go down from the mountain to the plain land below.

http://www.quran-ayat.com/universe/new_page_2.htm#The_creation_of_Adam_and_Eve
<quran-ayat.com/universe/new_page_2.htm#The_creation_of_Adam_and_Eve>

http://www.quran-ayat.com/retort/index.htm#Darkness_Is_Essential_for_the_Process_of_Creation
<quran-ayat.com/retort/index.htm#Darkness_Is_Essential_for_the_Process_of_Creation>
 
Last edited:

Jinentonix

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but the Mahdi: Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly told people in his book that Adam and Eve were created on one of the earth mountains (almost in the north of Iraq: in Shaqlawa maybe); there was a garden (one of the natural earth gardens) on that mountain,
So Adam and Eve lived naked on a mountain. They wouldn't have lived long as a result of exposure. Gets a little chilly at night and friggin' cold in the winter months. Oh wait, Allah didn't create the seasons yet, right?
 

selfsame

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So Adam and Eve lived naked on a mountain. They wouldn't have lived long as a result of exposure. Gets a little chilly at night and friggin' cold in the winter months. Oh wait, Allah didn't create the seasons yet, right?

In fact Adam and Eve were not naked, but their clothes were torn by the spikes of the blackberry tree.
So it was the spiky tree of the wild berry which Adam was forbidden to approach, not the apple tree.

Quran 2: 35, which means:
{And We said: "O Adam! Dwell together with your wife in the garden [that was on one of the earth mountains] f,
and eat you [both] amply g [of the fruits] thereof where you please;
but approach not this tree
h lest you should then become the wrong-doers i."}
...................................................

35 f God – be glorified – created Adam and Eve on one of the earth mountains which included much of trees and fruits, many water-springs and many kinds of birds and cattle.

That mountain was a portion of a planet that had been inhabited in the past and included man, animal, plant and other kinds of living beings; then when its Doomsday occurred, it broke up and became meteorites: some of which fell on our earth to become the mountains.

Then when rain came down on those mountains, which included the seeds of trees and plants, they started to plant and grow and became gardens on those mountains.

God – be glorified – said in the Quran 13: 4, that which means:
(There are, in the earth, pieces [which were not from the earth in origin, but were in the space then fell on the earth and became mountains] adjacent to each other, and gardens of fruits)

Then when the plants and trees grew on those mountains, God created many kinds of the birds and the cattle, and God created Adam and Eve on one of those mountains.

35 g It means: Eat of the fruits, the birds and the cattle of the garden and drink of the milk of its cattle: a profuse provision without toiling.

35 h Because it had spikes that would tear their dresses and wound their hands in case they would eat of its fruit; therefore, God forbade them to approach it; it was the blackberry tree [or the bramble.]

35 i You would wrong yourselves by eating of its fruit.

[The interpreter was the first one to differentiate between "approaching it" and "eating of it"; and it was the blackberry tree [or the bramble] which includes spikes, and it is not the apple tree which is a good tree, its fruit is delicious, it has no spikes, and its fruit is not forbidden till today; while till today the blackberry [or the bramble] has spikes which tear the dress and wound the hand. – the commentator]

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/2.htm#a2_35
<quran-ayat.com/pret/2.htm#a2_35>

Therefore, the spikes of the blackberry tree tore their clothes, and they started to patch their torn clothes with the leaves of the fig tree . Afterwards, Adam took off those torn clothes and made other clothes to wear.

So God advised man to beware of Satan and his suggestions, particularly the nakedness :

Quran 7: 27, which means:
{Children of Adam, let not Satan seduce you g as he h drove your parents out of the garden i, stripping them of their garments j to show them their shameful parts.}
.....................................................................

27 g With the loving of the life of the World, so that you will lose the Next Life; it means: don't follow the devil if he makes the life of the World lovely to you and makes it fair-seeming to your hearts, then you will hold fast with the life of the World and will not work for your Next Life, and so you will lose it.

27 h With his suggestions.

27 i After he made the blackberry tree lovely to them, and he made fair-seeming the eating of its berries, and so they lost the garden.

27 j With his cunning and trickery.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/7.htm#a7_27
<quran-ayat.com/pret/7.htm#a7_27>

Oh wait, Allah didn't create the seasons yet, right?

God created 12 months in a year, from the start of creating the planets including the earth.

Quran 9: 36, which means:

{To God, the number of months [in a one year] is twelve months by God's ordinance a in the day when He created the heavens and the earth b.}
..........................................................

36 a i.e. with what God established and perfected in the universe.

36 b i.e. the planets including the earth.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/9.htm#a9_36
<quran-ayat.com/pret/9.htm#a9_36>

==================================================================

Collapse of the concept of the redemption:

Many Christians (and others) think that Adam was created in heaven (or the Garden or Paradise) then when he sinned or disobeyed God, Adam was driven out of that heaven or Garden to the earth .. so all humanity suffered because of his sin, because had he not sinned, then all mankind would have been in heaven till now .. therefore, the Christ was crucified in order to bear the sin of Adam and rid the humanity of its consequences!

But while Adam was not created in heaven, but on earth: in one of its gardens, which is not the Garden of heaven .. so such redemption become useless and in vain and it is not needed. Because Adam was created on earth and not in heaven.
 
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Murphy

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The Sound of Muslims - my apologies to people with common sense, or a third grade education.

This here is whatcha call yer Cur-anic verses and what is written inside of their book of lies. Makes me laugh. It'll make you laugh 2.

[youtube]POJdu4HV-Ng[/youtube]

This portion of the Satan's Spirituality Hour is brought to you by Camel Dung cigarettes and Infidelity. Yay for men! Women, cover yourselves and walk behind the donkeys. And the Cur-an (aka Pariah Dog).



 

tay

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May 20, 2012
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So Adam and Eve lived naked on a mountain. They wouldn't have lived long as a result of exposure. Gets a little chilly at night and friggin' cold in the winter months. Oh wait, Allah didn't create the seasons yet, right?
I was always under the impression that they lived okay until she ate the apple from the snake and the God decided to give them shitty weather......
 

Jinentonix

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Sep 6, 2015
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I was always under the impression that they lived okay until she ate the apple from the snake and the God decided to give them shitty weather......
Did you know that Cain is the world's worst mass murderer? Yep, he killed off 25% of the population of his day.

Did you know that sound amplification was first mentioned in the Bible? God took a rib from Adam and made a loud speaker.

Who was the world's first carpenter? Eve, because she made Adam's banana stand.

If Eve sacrificed the human race for an apple, what would she do for a Klondike bar?

One day God came to Adam for a brief discussion. "I've got some good news and some bad news." God said. Adam looked thoughtfully at his maker and replied, "Please give me the good news first." Smiling, God explained, "I've created two new organs for you. One is called a brain. This organ will allow you to be very intelligent, create new things, and carry on productive conversations with Eve. The other organ is called a penis. It will allow you to reproduce your intelligent life form and begin populating the planet. Eve will be very pleased that you are now equipped with this organ as she will be able to conceive children." Adam, very excited, exclaimed, "These are great and wonderful gifts you have given me. What could possibly be bad news after such great tidings?" God then looked upon Adam, and said with great sorrow, "The bad news is I only gave you enough blood to operate one of these organs at a time."

A Briton, a Frenchman and a Russian are viewing a painting of Adam and Eve frolicking in the Garden of Eden. "Look at their reserve, their calm," muses the Brit. "They must be British." "Nonsense," the Frenchman disagrees. "They're naked, and so beautiful. Clearly, they are French." "No way! They have no clothes and no shelter," the Russian points out, "They have only an apple to eat, and they are being told they live in a paradise. Obviously, they are Russian."

Of all the people in the whole of the human race, God chose Adam for a chance at eternal life. His decision made he shouted, as loud as he could, "Adam! Come forth and win eternal life without aging". Unfortunately Adam came fifth and won a toaster.
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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All Jews, Christians, and Muslims think that Adam was created in heaven or in the paradise;

but the Mahdi: Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly told people in his book that Adam and Eve were created on one of the earth mountains (almost in the north of Iraq: in Shaqlawa maybe); there was a garden (one of the natural earth gardens) on that mountain,

then when Adam disobeyed God, he was punished: the trees of that garden dried up and the water disappeared from the mountains so as to spring below in the plain land .. and as such Adam together with his wife and the cattle were obliged to go down from the mountain to the plain land below.

http://www.quran-ayat.com/universe/new_page_2.htm#The_creation_of_Adam_and_Eve
<quran-ayat.com/universe/new_page_2.htm#The_creation_of_Adam_and_Eve>

http://www.quran-ayat.com/retort/index.htm#Darkness_Is_Essential_for_the_Process_of_Creation
<quran-ayat.com/retort/index.htm#Darkness_Is_Essential_for_the_Process_of_Creation>

In fact Adam and Eve were not naked, but their clothes were torn by the spikes of the blackberry tree.
So it was the spiky tree of the wild berry which Adam was forbidden to approach, not the apple tree.

Quran 2: 35, which means:
{And We said: "O Adam! Dwell together with your wife in the garden [that was on one of the earth mountains] f,
and eat you [both] amply g [of the fruits] thereof where you please;
but approach not this tree
h lest you should then become the wrong-doers i."}
...................................................

35 f God – be glorified – created Adam and Eve on one of the earth mountains which included much of trees and fruits, many water-springs and many kinds of birds and cattle.

That mountain was a portion of a planet that had been inhabited in the past and included man, animal, plant and other kinds of living beings; then when its Doomsday occurred, it broke up and became meteorites: some of which fell on our earth to become the mountains.

Then when rain came down on those mountains, which included the seeds of trees and plants, they started to plant and grow and became gardens on those mountains.

God – be glorified – said in the Quran 13: 4, that which means:
(There are, in the earth, pieces [which were not from the earth in origin, but were in the space then fell on the earth and became mountains] adjacent to each other, and gardens of fruits)

Then when the plants and trees grew on those mountains, God created many kinds of the birds and the cattle, and God created Adam and Eve on one of those mountains.

35 g It means: Eat of the fruits, the birds and the cattle of the garden and drink of the milk of its cattle: a profuse provision without toiling.

35 h Because it had spikes that would tear their dresses and wound their hands in case they would eat of its fruit; therefore, God forbade them to approach it; it was the blackberry tree [or the bramble.]

35 i You would wrong yourselves by eating of its fruit.

[The interpreter was the first one to differentiate between "approaching it" and "eating of it"; and it was the blackberry tree [or the bramble] which includes spikes, and it is not the apple tree which is a good tree, its fruit is delicious, it has no spikes, and its fruit is not forbidden till today; while till today the blackberry [or the bramble] has spikes which tear the dress and wound the hand. – the commentator]

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/2.htm#a2_35
<quran-ayat.com/pret/2.htm#a2_35>

Therefore, the spikes of the blackberry tree tore their clothes, and they started to patch their torn clothes with the leaves of the fig tree . Afterwards, Adam took off those torn clothes and made other clothes to wear.

So God advised man to beware of Satan and his suggestions, particularly the nakedness :

Quran 7: 27, which means:
{Children of Adam, let not Satan seduce you g as he h drove your parents out of the garden i, stripping them of their garments j to show them their shameful parts.}
.....................................................................

27 g With the loving of the life of the World, so that you will lose the Next Life; it means: don't follow the devil if he makes the life of the World lovely to you and makes it fair-seeming to your hearts, then you will hold fast with the life of the World and will not work for your Next Life, and so you will lose it.

27 h With his suggestions.

27 i After he made the blackberry tree lovely to them, and he made fair-seeming the eating of its berries, and so they lost the garden.

27 j With his cunning and trickery.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/7.htm#a7_27
<quran-ayat.com/pret/7.htm#a7_27>



God created 12 months in a year, from the start of creating the planets including the earth.

Quran 9: 36, which means:

{To God, the number of months [in a one year] is twelve months by God's ordinance a in the day when He created the heavens and the earth b.}
..........................................................

36 a i.e. with what God established and perfected in the universe.

36 b i.e. the planets including the earth.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/9.htm#a9_36
<quran-ayat.com/pret/9.htm#a9_36>

==================================================================

Collapse of the concept of the redemption:

Many Christians (and others) think that Adam was created in heaven (or the Garden or Paradise) then when he sinned or disobeyed God, Adam was driven out of that heaven or Garden to the earth .. so all humanity suffered because of his sin, because had he not sinned, then all mankind would have been in heaven till now .. therefore, the Christ was crucified in order to bear the sin of Adam and rid the humanity of its consequences!

But while Adam was not created in heaven, but on earth: in one of its gardens, which is not the Garden of heaven .. so such redemption become useless and in vain and it is not needed. Because Adam was created on earth and not in heaven.



Wrong, but thanks for playing.
 

Johnnny

Frontiersman
Jun 8, 2007
9,388
124
63
Third rock from the Sun
All Jews, Christians, and Muslims think that Adam was created in heaven or in the paradise;

but the Mahdi: Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly told people in his book that Adam and Eve were created on one of the earth mountains (almost in the north of Iraq: in Shaqlawa maybe); there was a garden (one of the natural earth gardens) on that mountain,

Oh Shaqlawa, yes I remember the place. I drank a few Turborgs with some Christians there and taught them euchre one night. Cool folk who are hardcore.